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Aoi: Final Tuned

Discussion in 'Aoi' started by Myke, Aug 28, 2004.

Page 1 of 3
  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Aoi Umenokouji
    Text: The Gorilla

    Confuse the opponent with the new moves

    She has few new moves, but the moves she can use are many, whether or not you can rapidly apply that will quickly affect the wins and losses you get.

    Take and apply the new moves and changes in battle

    The [6][P]+[K] and [2][K]+[G] which were the mainstays of Aoi's fighting style are basically unchanged. Therefore, the key to VF4FT is how to apply the new moves and strengthened moves.

    A move mentioned before, the new [K][P] looks to be invaluable in punishing. In addition to having elbow execution speed, on hit you can mix up between [6][P]+[K] or throw. So, when you have a chance to counter with an elbow, rather than the [6][P][P] (with poor followups) it's recommended that you use this.

    The next thing to take note of is the [3] or [9][P]+[K]. It's a new move in VF4FT that has great ability to avoid the opponents attacks, and it's strength in disadvantaged situations is being uncovered. It's a high attack, so it has nothing against low punches or low attacks, but can be used as a means to avoid the opponents throw or mid attack mixup. It gives small disadvantage on guard, and if used as quickly as possible on minor counters, can combo into [3] or [9][P]+[K][P]. Amongst the changed moves, the previously hard to apply [3][3][P]+[K] has been strengthened, and it now floats the opponent even on normal hit. You can connect a combo after that, and is really the only move that Aoi has that can do big damage on normal hit. However, it is now much slower to recover on guard, and even on crouching hit the opponent can retaliate with a mid-weight punch.

    About the change moves

    Choosing [K][K] or [K][P] to use is very confusing. The places to use the moves varies widely, but essentially the [K][P] is used for punishing, whereas the [K][K] is used mainly in combos. However, because the VF4 [K] execution is 13 frames, it can be used to interrupt the opponents strings, such as [P] to elbow.


    Footnotes

    Even though it just about wouldn't be an understatement to say the [2][K]+[G] could be used as a pronoun in VF4Evo, it has been slightly weakened. The details of those changes are 1. The initiation has been slowed from 19 to 20 frames and 2. the reach has been reduced marginally. They aren't going to have a huge effect on battle, but it would probably be good to remember it.

    Source: Arcadia Issue 52
    Translated by: noodalls
     
    Myke, Aug 28, 2004
    #1
  2. nin

    nin Well-Known Member

    [K][P] = +3 after normal hit
    [K][K] = -1~ -2 after normal hit
     
    nin, Aug 31, 2004
    #2
  3. Nybec

    Nybec Well-Known Member

    What about minor counter? Does [K][P] knock down?

    +3 is nice. But when do you get normalhit on these moves? Ok that the second [K] in [K][K] perhaps is mid. But the [P] in [K][P] should be high right? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     
    Nybec, Aug 31, 2004
    #3
  4. KiwE

    KiwE Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Amongst the changed moves, the previously hard to apply [3][3][P]+[K] has been strengthened, and it now floats the opponent even on normal hit

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [3][3][P]+[K]? Typo for [3][P]?

    /KiwE
     
    KiwE, Aug 31, 2004
    #4
  5. kimheng

    kimheng Well-Known Member

    What about her [6][4][P] ? does it sabaki elbows and punches like it was on VF4?
    From recent clips,I see the last hit of her new [2][K],[P],[P] crumble on (S?)RC,same for her [4][3][P] /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    In addition to having elbow execution speed, on hit you can mix up between [6][P]+ [K] or throw. So, when you have a chance to counter with an elbow, rather than the (with poor followups) it's recommended that you use this.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Does ti mean [6][P]+[K] is now 14 frames?
     
    kimheng, Aug 31, 2004
    #5
  6. agios_katastrof

    agios_katastrof Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    KiwE said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    Amongst the changed moves, the previously hard to apply [3][3][P]+[K] has been strengthened, and it now floats the opponent even on normal hit

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [3][3][P]+[K]? Typo for [3][P]?

    /KiwE

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I took this as meaning that it is the df+p, but in return for better stats, the execution has been made a tad bit more difficult.

    [ QUOTE ]
    kimheng said:

    What about her [6][4][P] ? does it sabaki elbows and punches like it was on VF4?
    From recent clips,I see the last hit of her new [2][K],[P],[P] crumble on (S?)RC,same for her [4][3][P] /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    In addition to having elbow execution speed, on hit you can mix up between [6][P]+ [K] or throw. So, when you have a chance to counter with an elbow, rather than the (with poor followups) it's recommended that you use this.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Does ti mean [6][P]+[K] is now 14 frames?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    man, that'd be so sweet.
     
    agios_katastrof, Aug 31, 2004
    #6
  7. KiwE

    KiwE Well-Known Member

    It's probably 15 frames as always. You got +3 after kp and that's why you can use it then.
    2 thoughts:

    1) That [3][P] combos on normalhit makes it sweet as a delayed attack against evaders (while she's limited to stuff like [4][6][P] hitthrow now).
    2) Can someone confirm if [K][P] combos on mC? I know Nybec and some other Aois wouldn't mind an evadeattack option like that.

    /KiwE
     
    KiwE, Aug 31, 2004
    #7
  8. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    KiwE said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    Amongst the changed moves, the previously hard to apply [3][3][P]+[K] has been strengthened, and it now floats the opponent even on normal hit

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [3][3][P]+[K]? Typo for [3][P]?

    /KiwE

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No it's not a typo the motion has been changed -- I think df+P gets the VF4/EVO df+P+K now (the force crouch move). Can't be certain though since I've only messed around with her in FT and not played her seriously.


    kbcat
     
    kbcat, Aug 31, 2004
    #8
  9. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    That's it exactly. [3][3]+[P]+[K] is the new command for her VF4 Evo [3]+[P]. The VF4 FT [3]+[P] is her old force crouch move.

    <font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>
     
    Llanfair, Aug 31, 2004
    #9
  10. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Reposting.

    I did not appreciate the stunt you guys pulled, nor found it funny. Trying to split a thread where good and shit replies are intertwined is not fun.

    [ QUOTE ]
    nin said:

    Everyone please clam down, I played FT. Here is the facts:

    Her old [3][P] 's command have changed to [3][3][P]+[K] in FT

    Her old [3][P]+[K] have changed to [3][P] in FT

    Also [K][P] is a 2 hit combo even in normal hit if u dont delay the second hit, smae as [P][K]. The first [K] will float if it's a counter hit. It is useful when ur opponent is -14 frames, and put urself in +3 after hit.

    In the other hand, [K][K] is good for air combo( slams opponent on to ground= can aim for a down attack or ground throw if not tech-rolled). Also it is good for a -13 frame counter move. e.g. After blocking Akira's [2_][6][P]+[K]

    As for [4][3][P] it only crumples on SRC.

    [2][K][P][P] is only good to use after [2][3][6][P]+[K] crumble. It take 2 pt more than [6][K][K].

    Another important change to note is the [4][K][G] is not throw counterable!!!

    More to come later Cheers
    /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    ice-9 said:

    Nice change! In Evo I sometimes got that slow-execution [3][P] instead of the intended, fast-execution [4][3][P]. Now at worse you get the relatively quick and good FC move.

    Can [3][3][P]+[K] still be G-canceled?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    nin said:

    [3][3][P]+[K] still can be G canceled.

    Another minor change is that if u hold forward and do [P][P][P][K], the move will be come [P][P][6][P]. So please bear in mind that if you wants to do a combo with [6][P][P][P][K], you should do the following,

    e.g. [6][K]~[6_][P]~[6_][P][P] neutral [P][K]


    So you can either say it's harder to do the [P][P][P][K] in air combo, Or easier to do [P][P][6][P][P] /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    e.g.2 [6][K]~[6_][P][P][P][P]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    agios_katastrof said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    nin said:

    Another important change to note is the [4][K][G] is not throw counterable!!!


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wow. That's a huge improvement on that move. And it still has its sabaki, ducking and crumple properties?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    nin said:

    [4][K]+[G] will not crumble on a minor counter(freeze counter) anymore. I am not sure if it crumbles on yellow counter, but sure it will crumble on a sabaki hit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    GaijinPunch said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    but sure it will crumble on a sabaki hit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Is this new? Will it crumble on all Sabaki's? It did not in previous versions.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    kimheng said:

    On a recent clip from beat tribe,I see Aoi kofu megane doing her [4][G]+[K] against Shun Di SHU rising attack and it crumbles (a YC)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    Nybec said:

    Thanks for the information! This is great stuff. I wonder how much damage [K][P] will have... Somewhere around 35?

    [4]+[K]+[G] not being counterable is news to me. Probably leaves you around -6 on guard now right? Too bad many defensive options doesn't work when backturned. Guess it will work more as Goh's [4][6][K] now.

    I think I've seen that [K] can be cancelled if you choose [K][K]. It this correct? That would be really nice!

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
    Myke, Sep 2, 2004
    #10
  11. nin

    nin Well-Known Member

    Another good point to know is when either a left or right knee being inashi-ed by her YY stance. [4][4][P]+[K] is Guranteed!!! but becareful of the camera change.

    Also after [3][P] counter hits, dont try [K][K] even it's 13 frame exe time but it wont hit. So just go for the same old flow chart in EVO, like [P][K], [2][P], low throw, or [4][3][P].

    And I am working on [3]/[9] [P]+[K] for Uramawari situations. I will post again soon. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
    nin, Sep 2, 2004
    #11
  12. nin

    nin Well-Known Member

    Also just to answer your questions about [K][K]:

    The first [K] of the [K][K] can be G-canceled, but I dont think it's very useful. good to as a fake tho. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
    nin, Sep 16, 2004
    #12
  13. kimheng

    kimheng Well-Known Member

    Maybe it can be apply as Mike explain here? /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    anyways,keep Aoi infos coming,thanks!
     
    kimheng, Sep 16, 2004
    #13
  14. nin

    nin Well-Known Member

    New changes for [3][3][P]+[K] in Ver.A:

    [3][3][P]+[K] had changed from special mid to a standard mid attack!! And dmg had increased from 20 to 23 pts. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    cheers
     
    nin, Sep 19, 2004
    #14
  15. Nybec

    Nybec Well-Known Member

    Cool. Now it seems better than [6]+[K] which I found to be the superior launcher of the two in Evolution.

    FT Aoi will be a pleasure to play.
     
    Nybec, Sep 20, 2004
    #15
  16. kimheng

    kimheng Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    nin said:

    New changes for [3][3][P]+[K] in Ver.A:

    [3][3][P]+[K] had changed from special mid to a standard mid attack!! And dmg had increased from 20 to 23 pts. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    cheers

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Please,what was the difference beetween a special mid attack and a standard mid attack?
     
    kimheng, Sep 20, 2004
    #16
  17. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    kimheng said:

    Please,what was the difference beetween a special mid attack and a standard mid attack?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A special mid attack will force a crouching defender to stand, but not cause any damage. Not causing any damage to a crouching defender is the real key -- so this is a big change for Aoi. In my opinion it has taken the df,df+P+K (formerly df+P) move from marginal usefulness since Aoi's debut in VF3 to her primary float tool. All I can say to Sega, is "about bloody time".


    cheers,
    kbcat
     
    kbcat, Sep 20, 2004
    #17
  18. agios_katastrof

    agios_katastrof Well-Known Member

    !!! Is this still uncounterable on guard? And still G-cancelable? And still cancelable into YY? Man, this is becoming one sweet floater.
     
    agios_katastrof, Sep 20, 2004
    #18
  19. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    agios_katastrof said:

    !!! Is this still uncounterable on guard? And still G-cancelable? And still cancelable into YY? Man, this is becoming one sweet floater.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Still g-cancelable: yes
    Still able to proceed into YY: yes
    Uncounterable: no, -12 on guard according to 1/60th. So fast punch counterable.


    cheers,
    kbcat
     
    kbcat, Sep 21, 2004
    #19
  20. agios_katastrof

    agios_katastrof Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    kbcat said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    agios_katastrof said:

    !!! Is this still uncounterable on guard? And still G-cancelable? And still cancelable into YY? Man, this is becoming one sweet floater.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Still g-cancelable: yes
    Still able to proceed into YY: yes
    Uncounterable: no, -12 on guard according to 1/60th. So fast punch counterable.


    cheers,
    kbcat

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ok, I guess it was too good to be true. But man, going from -5 to -12 is rough. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
    agios_katastrof, Sep 21, 2004
    #20
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