"Competent" NAVF players

(in order not to clog up the FT thread)

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No, at the time you played Namflow, I wouldn't have called him competent. Maybe now that he has Japanese experience, he is but there are 0 competent home grown Shun users in the West. When I say competent, please realize that I mean players whom fully understand & apply VF concepts and game/system knowledge (there are perhaps less than 10 players that do this in NA).

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Shou you are full of shit... Who are you to say Namflow was incompetent player as Shun?

I'd have to assume that you are drawing this conclusion based on his play at Top Gun tournament (the only time you've actually played / seen him play)... But you'll have to help me here draw a line from him at that gathering to incompetent player... I mean in the round robin part of the tournament only two players won matches again Ryan Hart... They were Kazu and Namflow... Did you (one of the self proclaimed best in the US) win a match vs Ryan Hart during the tournament? I didn't think so...

And I don't know how you can say Namflow didn't "fully understand & apply VF concepts and game/system knowledge"... How many times did you play him before he left? Did you watch him play many matches against other people? I don't get it...

This eliteist attitude has really go to go... It just boggles my mind how you can say someone is incompetent player when you have played maybe only a few matches against them...

-Alex

 

SuperG,

At that time, not one US player was competent. Please understand that am I not being elitist, merely realistic. Why did we ALL get mauled by Ryan Hart and Kazu back then? It was not only character knowledge situations but also game system related. Our defense was obviously lacking. Back then, EDTEG was the big thing we were all trying to do but they already knew how to beat it. To this day, few players in NA are using tactics such as delayed launchers to beat it or even other advanced defensive strats and that is what i'm referring to as incompetent. Without knowledge and application of things like this, you are not a competent player. You can be certain that all of the top players in Japan know these concepts and I'm not talking about the Chibitas or Ohsus, but the tier below the famous guys, people like Sugoroku Star and Kazu.

You can ask your brother what he thinks. Did he believe he was a competent player back at VFTG? Does he believe he is a competent player today in Fukui? I know for myself that I looked back for a long time and thought I was a scrub. It wasn't until last December that I truly understood VF. Do you think many Western VFers fully understand the game?

 

Re: "Competent" NAVF players *DELETED*

Post deleted by Shou

 

REvserve a second seat for his EGO. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

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Shou said:
At that time, not one US player was competent. Please understand that am I not being elitist, merely realistic. Why did we ALL get mauled by Ryan Hart and Kazu back then?


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Well, if I remember correctly, IMF took out Ryan Hart in the tournament, I wouldn't exactly call that a mauling.

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Shou said:
You can be certain that all of the top players in Japan know these concepts and I'm not talking about the Chibitas or Ohsus, but the tier below the famous guys, people like Sugoroku Star and Kazu.


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Oh I'm sorry - I didn't know you've lived in Japan, played in lots of Japanese arcades, and have talked with a ton of Japanese players to get an accurate feel of what an average upper-tier Japanese player knows and does during a match, my bad.

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Shou said:
I know for myself that I looked back for a long time and thought I was a scrub. It wasn't until last December that I truly understood VF. Do you think many Western VFers fully understand the game?

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Can I ask what lead to your epiphany to say that you fully understand VF? Is there a set number of "VF concepts" you have to have memoirzed or something like that? It sounds like complete horse shit when you say you have a full understanding of VF - I know I don't.


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Shou said:
You can ask your brother what he thinks. Did he believe he was a competent player back at VFTG?

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Well you have this whacked definition of a "competent" player all talking about "apply VF concepts" this and "game/system knowledge" that, but I don't have a slightest clue what you're talking about. Please enlighten me as to how I can become a competent player such as yourself.

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Shou said:
Does he believe he is a competent player today in Fukui?

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I've played over 2,220 matches since I've been here and I have a 10th dan shun and a 6th dan wolf. And you know what? That don't mean shit. There's tons of players here with better records, more characters with higher ranks, etc. I get my ass kicked by businessmen in their suits who stop in on their way home from work.

But you know what? It's all good. Even if my skill doesn't stand out in a small arcade in the middle of nowhere, I'd still say I'm competent. Why? Cause I know enough to have fun playing the game, and the Japanese players have fun playing against me.

Like once when I was in a series of matches against this one akira when he got up to cash some more money he came over and said, in Japanese, "You're strong!" Does that mean I'm actually strong? Not really, I just shook my head and said "oh no, not yet." But he was being friendly and having fun playing me, so it's all good.

Another example was last Friday I was playing my then 5th dan wolf. Well first I got demoted and then I started a series against a group of friends. First they took turns playing me with their 4th dan characters. After like 10~15 matches or so I finally got up to 5th dan again. And then I had this awesome series with one of their 5th dan wolfs. Back and forth, he'd win some I'd win some, he'd almost get promoted and then I'd work my way back up and almost get promoted, and we kept taking turns. What really made the night was I could hear the dude and his friends laughing and enjoying the matches. They weren't the most technically beautiful matches on the planet, but every time something awesome or strange or unique happened I'd hear him and his friends laugh. It didn't matter if I won or lost cause it was fun ya know? And finally, after what must have been a good 45 minutes, I managed to pull ahead and get 6th dan. And you know what message the dude put up after our marathon of matches was finally over and I emerged with a promotion? He said "Thank you!" - and that's competent enough for me.

 

Namflow,

You must feel like I'm attacking you as a player. Please seperate your emotions and logic here. I'm not talking about fun which is subjective and the entire reason why we play.

I did say every US player at that time was not competent. To say IMF didn't get mauled based upon one match is ridiculous. He would be the first one to say that he was outclassed and NO ONE was able to consistently beat Ryan or Kazu then. Are you going to tell me that you didn't get mauled overall since you won against Ryan once in the tournament? Do you want others such as IMF and Cappo to qualify what I'm saying by posting they agree?

There are basically 2 types of players: those that learn solely from experience much like most 2D game players and those that study the game as well as building upon experiences. Either type can excel and become proficient but the former takes much longer time than the latter . In the West, you have people like Sumeragi and myself who are the latter type due to not having competition. We've studied frames, mooks, etc to become competitive. It's safe to say I've travelled more than any other Western player and I've spoken with all of our Japanese guests about their scenes. I've read Japanese BBSs and seen almost every major VF scene firsthand to see this player disparity. For a Japanese look at it, you can search for the VF3tb post about player types that originates from the VF3tb mook. Players that understand VF can take any character and excel with them against players who don't have such a good grasp on it. In America, I can only see it in Cappo, IMF, myself, Maddy and to a lesser extent, Rodney. The rest of the NYC players (outside of their Japanese teachers) are experience/feeling players. It's not a good or bad thing, it's just the type of player you are but in this environment, I think it's easier to be a "studying" player.

 

Banning and editing people who point out your issues is CLASS, do you not agree, Nammy-chan?

(This message recorded elsewhere for posterity!)

 

Zero,

This is a real discussion and if you or your cronies don't want to participate constructively then just move on. Otherwise, we will have a discussion about your mod status and what you contribute to the scene.

 

I don't know. I kinda agree with her point about Fishie's post. I suppose he said something that might've been true, and you nerfed it, replacing it with some childish remark.

Sounds like an abuse of mod powers to me. If his message was really that bad, you should've just outright deleted it, not changed it to mock him.

*Message recorded also, in case this post gets deleted. It'll be back*

 

Painty J,

Just an FYI, Almaci aka Fishie never posts anything useful. At most, it's an insult and then some not so subtle praise for himself for some gaming related thing which no one here cares about.

 

Then delete it, simple as that.

 

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Then delete it, simple as that.

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agree. Rationalize it anyway you need to but it was an asshole thing to do. assholes can always be moderators but I don't think moderators should be assholes.

GE

 

I seem to have been unbanned by Zero.

Annyways ill make this to the point as much as I can.

Its about time I reflect on myself instead of acting like a lil crybaby whenever I call you out.
My arrogance and ego is NOT something that came after december 2k3, its a problem I have always had regardles of actual merit, coming here and saying I SAW THE LIGHT after december 2k3 is incredibly dishonest to yourself as well as to others.

To my knoledge I have always behaved like this.

Just a little background info here for the other people who might NOT know what i am talking about.

I didnt do too well at the Spotlite VF3tb gathering in 2k1, Shou was there and he didnt play the game despite bragging he had the board etcetera.
I had the version a arcade machine and for me it was the second time ever playing the dreamcast version, I was suffering from jetlag and was not used to the DC joysticks for the game.
Needles to say I didnt fare too wel.
Afterwards we had a discusion and I mentioned that i never played tb was used only to version a and bla bla bla.
Emotions between Shou and me heated up and in the run up to E3 we agreed to play eachother at Spotlites VF4 gathering, no bitching about joysticks, no bitching about jetlag, being tired or whatever else, basically NO EXCUSES, just play and settle the score.
The day before the gathering me and a few friends of mine met Shou in Kentia hall playing VF4 on the XArcade joystick stand, I asked if I could join and he said yeah sure.
We played, my Aoi against his Akira, I lost the first fight horribly.
Then I started losing to his game and lost 10 in a row with a few perfects thrown in for good measure and a few close rounds as well.
I had to leave for an appointment and said it was nice fighting against him and looked forward to taking a trashing by him again at the mini tourney at Spotlites the next day.
I left having won only the very first fight against him then having lost the 10 matches after that.
The next day came and I avoided fighting against him all night, whenever he wanted to challenge him I suddenly just needed a break.
So that night fearing a more public humiliation amongst peers I did everything I could do to avoid playing against me.

Back home after E3 there was some discusion in VFHome about the gathering at Spotlites and people who had played against eachother at the XArcade stand.
At first I started denying he ever played against me there, when he said there were plenty of witnesses I denied he trashed me completely after the first match and a lil later still I said yeah he MIGHT have won a couple matches more then me but I sucked and it was all the fault of those crappy joysticks.

No excuses, just you, me and we will settle this once and for all.
Those were his words against me, it was his challenge against me.

So as my lil anecdote shows the Ego and bragging is NOT something new, not something YOU EARNED after december 2K3, its something I have always had and one of the reasons people dislike me regardles of actual VF skills.

Me sir ARE an idiot and I DO feel for me, I think its sad that I need this to get some selfesteem, to feel some self worth and fulfillment in my life.

I have serious isseus and problems and you are the least of those.

Backed up for repost in case you decide to delete this as well.

 

Shou, I really think you need to back off your VF skills for a while and practice on your human skills: you are obviously less than competent.

Keep in mind that I'm not crticizing you as a VF player just a person in general.

GE

 

Cute lil Shou edit dont you think?
Again he is editing my posts instead of actually addresing them or taking in what people have said about him.

Anyways, here goes again: I seem to have been unbanned by Zero.



Annyways ill make this to the point as much as I can.



Shou its about time you reflect on yourself instead of acting like a lil crybaby whenever I call you out.

Your arrogance and ego is NOT something that came after december 2k3, its a problem you have always had regardles of actual merit, coming here and saying you SAW THE LIGHT after december 2k3 is incredibly dishonest to yourself as well as to others.



To my knoledge you have always behaved like this.



Just a little background info here for the other people who might NOT know what i am talking about.



I didnt do too well at the Spotlite VF3tb gathering in 2k1, Shou was there and he didnt play the game despite bragging he had the board etcetera.

I had the version a arcade machine and for me it was the second time ever playing the dreamcast version, I was suffering from jetlag and was not used to the DC joysticks for the game.

Needles to say I didnt fare too wel.

Afterwards we had a discusion and I mentioned that i never played tb was used only to version a and bla bla bla.

Emotions between Shou and me heated up and in the run up to E3 we agreed to play eachother at Spotlites VF4 gathering, no bitching about joysticks, no bitching about jetlag, being tired or whatever else, basically NO EXCUSES, just play and settle the score.

The day before the gathering me and a few friends of mine met Shou in Kentia hall playing VF4 on the XArcade joystick stand, I asked if I could join and he said yeah sure.

We played, my Aoi against his Akira, I lost horribly.

Then I started adapting to his game and won 10 in a row with a few perfects thrown in for good measure and a few close rounds as well.
I left having lost only the first match.

I had to leave for an appointment and said it was nice fighting against him and looked forward to trashing him again at the mini tourney at Spotlites the next day.

The next day came and he avoided fighting against me all night, whenever I wanted to challenge him he suddenly just needed a break.

So that night fearing a more public humiliation amongst peers he did everything he could to avoid playing against me.



Back home after E3 there was some discusion in VFHome about the gathering at Spotlites and people who had played against eachother at the XArcade stand.

At first Shou started denying he ever played against me there, when I said there were plenty of witnesses he denied I trashed him completely after the first match and a lil later still he said yeah I MIGHT have won a couple matches more then him but I sucked and it was all the fault of those crappy joysticks.



No excuses, just you, me and we will settle this once and for all.

Those were his words against me, it was his challenge against me.



So as my lil anecdote shows the Ego and bragging is NOT something new, not something YOU EARNED after december 2K3, its something you have always had and one of the reasons people dislike you regardles of actual VF skills.



You sir ARE an idiot and I DO feel for you, I think its sad that you need this to get some selfesteem, to feel some self worth and fulfillment in your life.



You have serious isseus and problems and I am the least of those.



Backed up for repost in case you decide to delete this as well.

 

BUT CANADIANS SUCK AT VF SO YOUR OPINION IS WORTHLESS. Or so this gem from Shou, culled from a not-so-secret source, says.

Anyone wants the source, feel free to mail me.

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I'll agree with your point that overall the NAVF scene is poor but not for the reasons you mention. I'll be very blunt with you and I'm certain Ali & Heidi will try to twist my words or just discredit me in some way. The truth is that you haven't been exposed to the "real" US VF community. Toronto is a has been scene which hasn't been good since VF2. Canadians are not good at VF4. SoCal is a very isolated scene which does not have much contact with the compettiive players. They very rarely travel and stay within their group. The main scene is in NYC and there are a handful of dedicated competent players scattered across the rest of the country. Despite the trash talking you have seen/heard on IRC or VFDC, in person, we're all good with each other. Of coutse, there are some exceptions but we are civil. Only Shang is going out of his way to flame people and he's not even that good. The truth is that the top American players don't post on VFDC very often (I'm certain Ali and Heidi will say something negative here). Playing VF over here is a very ironic thing. Once you get good enough, it isn't fun to play because there is no scene with a good amount of competent players besides NYC. To even get to that point, you need the dedication and skills to become good and seek out the scene. I'm sorry but Ali and Heidi have no idea. She doesn't even know she's on thin ice and her mod status is about to be removed if she continues certain behaviors. Neither were/are considered good or in the scene. I have seriously been in the scene since the beginning of VF4, I've travelled to every major VF scene in the US and I am one of the best in the country (Yes, Ali, people like Shota (btw, he is a "has been" too) will say that). We don't care what you play, we just crave high level VF play.

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I am not a scenester, in spite of my 10-year fanaticism for the series. Le sniffle.

So to be a scenester, do I need a special password and handshake, or what?

Can we call this "Andyitis"?

 

I'll likely post more later to explain this one (so no knee-jerk reactions from the TO group please) but at first glance I don't see much wrong with Shou's assessment of Canada (I assume he really means Toronto). Outside of two or three people at any given time most of us don't pursue VF with any sense of the dedication that was present in VF2.

For me the game got in the way of friends and other things much more important to me; you choose what's important to you. That said, this is a side argument at best.

For myself I'd like to know one thing: Who is moderating the moderator? Anyone? Can I assume that if anyone steps out of line (as Shou sees it) then banning and post editing is a go? If civility is merely a facade or formality then why bother?

GE

 

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BUT CANADIANS SUCK AT VF SO YOUR OPINION IS WORTHLESS. Or so this gem from Shou, culled from a not-so-secret source, says.

Anyone wants the source, feel free to mail me.

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can I plz have the source plz.

 

Its from Reno´s livejournal, Shou replied with that at one of Reno´s LJ entries.

 

Not the first time he has done it dude.