Defense techniques for noobs

There's lot's of spread out information on this site about VF5FS defense. Look in the VF5 archive and I'm sure you'll find more. It seems to me that a lot of these cutting edge posts are done by those who've been playing VF seriously for years. You use established terms and understandings to further your point or help in understanding. This is great for experienced players who want to absorb new info quickly and are already familiar with what has come before.

For a noob, it's a little hard to know where to start. The first time I read some of the articles posted by GT, I thought I understood, but I've had to bounce back between articles several times to see how they relate to each other. I still don't entirely get what your options are when you're evading. I've read to TE while you're still evading. I've also read to evade like 8 3 P+G 3 because you'll be blocking sooner? Is that too hard core to bother with?

I'm also probably practicing this wrong: I set cpu to guard and throw. Can't even get past the evade. I'm probably just slow, but you'd have to be lightning quick.. It works in fights against strikes (or rather, I can still block in time on some strikes)

When I get home from work I'm going to attempt to practice this again. I'm going to record three moves: a strike, a delayed throw, and some sort of feint attack or something to throw me off. I'll watch the cpu and try to guess when to dodge. If I hear an evade, I'll attack. If I fail I'll slide into one of these techniques. Is this how you guys would start trying to practice this? Better suggestions? Could I practice dodge vs fuzzy?

 

For the blocking sooner thing: You have to press "8 (then) P+G6 (at same time to break 6, or tap neutral then 6 to get neutral TE) (then let go of P only hold G while pressing 6 a second time to activate dash) G6. You'll get the fastest possible evade guard cancel doing this. without the throw escape you can't hold G while inputing a evade dash cancel guard. You would have to dash then press G without the throw escape. This technique is very easy to mess up though so it's a nice trade off.

If you start looking closely at the system mechanics, buffer windows, and how the game deals with your inputs you can start coming up with all kinds of crazy option selects that are available to you. A lot of them weren't possible in older versions of the game because it didn't have Easy TE's. The new TE method actually allows for IMO more interesting defensive and offensive techniques than simply MTE's. Keep in mind I'm heavily biased against MTE's cuz they neutralized all the throws available to my character at once.

You'll know you messed up if you don't see your character evade at all, or if you see your character whiff a throw instead of evading, or if you evade and then end up with a whiffed throw. It's hard but powerful.

 

Thank you for the reply, but that first paragraph is just... way too much.. I'm at step one. It sounds like you're describing step 5. I need to read more I guess.. Should I train the way I proposed.?

I'm just going to start practicing evade throw escape. Then try evade dash fuzzy or evade dash throw escape.. but yeah, I don't really know how to practice it. Is there a more noobish noob section?

 

I don't expect you guys to take time out and write up a big article for me. I just want to be pointed in the right direction. All of these concepts have taken time for me to absorb, so I don't think I can learn it in one shot.

I figure evade throw escapes seem like the logical place to start. But should I practice against a delayed throw? an instant throw after block gets me everytime..

EDIT: I hate to ask like this, but could you guys just tell me what to have the cpu do? I know what I'm supposed to do, I think. 8 then g+p really fast, right? or 833g+p or I could even get all crazy and try the one with the inputs in between dashes.

 

a way to practice your dodging is setting the cpu to defend and counter attack 3. The description is "the cpu will block the first attack and the react with a mid attack".
So use a move that leaves you with negative values (when you start training you have by default the detailed stats, so just pick a move that has a negative value on block) and practice the right timing to dodge. There's also a tutorial in the dojo mode but it's better if you get along with the dojo since you can do more stuff.

Second step will be evading throws. This time you should use Defende and counter attack 4. It's kinda easy evade a throw, just hold guard and then start holding punch too. If you wanna practice with a different direction you may change that (the option will be visible once you chosce defende and counter attack 4).

Third step. It's time to get them together. Do the same -x on block move and then dodge AND do the stuff you do in the 2nd step. When you can to this each time you want, your training is ready to go to the next level, like finding all the move where you should choice that kind of defence. Remember this tecnique is usefull but not the definitive answer. You will lose against a catch, a low slow attack, a circular attack and i'm sure there's still something i missed. BUT it's really important to master this evade + lazy throw escape because it's the abc you need to start develope a defence.

Hope you find this post usefull

 

Okay thanks. I will do this before combining them. It seemed too hard before, but maybe I wasn't doing it in time.

 

Okay what I was doing wrong was trying to dodge a throw. You'll dodge a strike but a throw goes straight to the TE animation.
Okay, so it sounds like I should always TE when I dodge just to be safe.. This combined with VF math is making sense.

So a basic flow chart would be like: advantage -6 or less dodge te, then maybe cancel dash te.
-5 to what, 0?, would be fuzzy? And higher than fuzzy means you should attack.

This is a better way to go through the movelist than move training it seems. Testing each move to see it's aftermath instead of just going through them.

I have plenty to practice now without worrying my little head . I also can begin counting frames now in a practical way. Thanks for the advice!!

 

You can always do a TE all the way up to -50, You can evade anything up to -10.

 

here a simple scheme:

• 0: do something, either defende or attack!
• -1 -3: normal fuzzy (tap down while holding guard). You will avoid mids and high throw. You will lose against: delaied throws, lows, low throws.
• -4 - 5: crouched fuzzy (): more or less like normal fuzzy.
• -6 -9: you may do what you have already written: evade, crouched dash and guard, then you keep a throw escape while guarding. Since you'r -9 throws aren't garantee, if you feel like your opponent is going to do one, just punch him/her.
• -10: now throws will connect without interruption.
• -11: some character have a garanteed punishment
• -12: every character has a punishment garanteed (except taka who has )

From -13 every character has hiw own way to punish you and you have just to hope he fails. Just keep throw escaping because that's the only thing you can avoid.

 

evade crouch dash is really useful for when you're less than 6 frames negative. 15f high circulars will hit you from -6 while they won't at -5. 17 frame circulars will whiff (if they're high) at -7 or below.

I'm gonna double check this in dojo right now and update the post if my frames are wrong. But the general take home message is that from minor dis. your evade dash guard cancels are a great option. Once you get to -6 - -9 range, you're looking at the evade or reverse nitaku choice.

 

The numbers you guys have, confirm what I'm seeing, while playing with the data available.Thanks for that Mister.

Okay, so even after a body check, while I have my balls hanging out, I can at least still te, which is good to know. I'm going to have to really examine your last post Tricky. Are you saying you can dodge circulars if you have enough frames? I'll check that out. So are you talking about a failed evade that happens before they attack?

Do you even fuzzy then?
my brain's gonna explode..

EDIT: I've been reading GOH NOTES. Lot's of good stuff there too.

 

You can duck under circulars during a failed evade if you have the frames, even if you're negative. That's what makes evade dash cancel so strong. You have to cancel with 833 not 866 in this case. (There is a more complicated way, but I'm leaving that out for simplicity sake)

 

In dojo mode record Blaze doing 2P then K+G. Let the 2P hit you,then do 833G against him. Try it out. His K+G is a 17 frame high circular.

 

OH OKAY! HIGH circulars. I'm still a little slow. That makes sense.

 

hell yeah, I'll do that right now..

 

If you find yourself getting hit, try holding down after your 33.

 

Hey . that's great practice even just to dodge crouch dash cancel faster. If i dodge crouch cancelled without fuzzying out, he completely misses over my head. If I fuzzy after the forward crouch dash, he rises to block it. I'm going to experiment with delays and stuff too. Thanks for the mission