Fight Game Democracy, Can VF Survive?

Once more for the record... I think VF is the best fighting game on the planet. But I also play all of the other serious 3d fighting games out there. Here's what I'm noticing about the newest games being released.

1) The game developer has a big budget web site tie-in for the game.

2) The game developer regularly asks the fighting community what improvements, or enhancements they would like to see in the fighting game and for the next release.

3) The game developer asks the fighting community what the problems are with the game and how they might fix them.

4) There is constant communication between the fans and the
developers

5) The game developer publicly announces a tentative schedule for the next release of the game or the DLC

In other words for almost all of the new 3D fighting games being released there is a democratic process between the fans and the game developers.

Fighting Fans are unamimously asking for CAF (create a fighter) with more and more customization

Online features that are being unamiously asked for include online tournament modes,online team modes, online fighting camps

Everything is being tied back into Web sites, and facebook

All of the other 3d fighting games out there definitely have a democratic feel to how they are produced.

On the other hand, Sega could give a damn what console fans want, or what they think. There is for the most part zero communication between AM2 and the VF console fighting community. Sega creates VF in an arcade vacuum and if they decide to make a console version, its take or leave it. And after all of that, if the console sales are bad, then Sega won't make another console version and ultimately blames the fans

I keep harping on the evolution of fighting games and I'm worried for VF my favorite game. The rest of the fighting game world has gone democratic, where the fans interact regularly with the developers through websites and tweet. Certain features like CAF, customizable fighting styles, online tournament modes, online fighting camps, replay customization and distribution are starting to be standard components of all 3d fighting games. Yet VF which was once an innovator is quickly falling behind, partially because Sega runs it like a dictatorship, the people, the fans have no voice. So even though we have VF5 XBL,VF sales are still poor, Online activity is down, and the community is getting smaller every year. Because of Sega's take it or leave it attitude and lack of communication with the console fans, I'm worried that VF will soon no longer even be a factor when fighting games are talked about. I recently heard Adam Sessler talking about the top fighting game contenders and VF was not even mentioned. Sure the oldtimers will remain faithful. But that's not enough. The features of VF are falling behind the modern fighting game.

The new Story mode that EA just added to Fight Night, just raised the bar again for 3d fighting games. The rumor is Supremacy MMA is going to do the same thing, and will raise the bar again by combining MMA combat sport physics with the diversity of 3d arcade style play.


boys and girls I'm really starting to worry I've ordered two copies of VF5 for the PS3 so that I can get them while I still can. I'll put them up, so that I'll always have a copy to play. But the fighting game is evolving as a result of fan input and democracy and Sega is only listening to the
the tokens as they fall into the arcade machines in Japan.

Can the Sega VF dictatorship survive in a fighting game democracy?

Will VF become the fighting video game equivalent of Pac Man:
a classic that's no longer really played?

 

Po,

I think your metaphor works only outside of Japan,

In Japan, VF is a democracy. Its not Sega's fault that the game sells like shit in US. Arcades are dead in US, games made for consoles only like MK sell well, there is no demand for VF. There are just 500 people signed up on the facebook VF group. 500! if only those 500 fan buy VF, it would not be a democratic gesture by Sega, it would be financial suicide.

 

@Sudden_Death



@Matt yea, I specified console market. But VF is not doing what it used to do in the arcades in Japan. Its aging and Sega's not listening to the fans. Soul Calibur is played in arcades also, but notice how the developers are asking for fan feedback for the upcoming SC5. Tekken is in arcades in Japan, but that doesn't stop Namco from solicited feedback, and keeping open lines of communication between the developers and the fans.

I just wish Sega would sell the VF franchise to somebody that really wants to build revenue from the fighting game genre. Sega is just not interested in promoting the fighting genre right now. Heck I haven't finished Yakuza3 yet and Yakuza 4 is being released. If Sega can put money into Yakuza 3 and 4
in such a short time, then VF5 on the PS3 should have at least had online by now

 

All the new 3D fighting games coming out are doing Democracy based marketing. Check Supremacy MMA out:



The Below Fighting game will sell Millions of Copies in the first Year SEGA Take Notes!

What Virtua Fighter Advertising Should be

 

Notice how the Game Developers and Reviewers Compares Supremacy MMA to Virtua Fighter in Both Interviews



Interview Compares Supremacy MMA to Virtua Fighter


Supremacy MMA Not Simulation More Like Virtua Fighter

This Fighting Game is being produced using Democracy. Kungfu factory looked at and read lots and lots of feedback from fighting game fans and they used that feedback to make a game
part MMA and part Virtua Fighter/Tekken. The advertisement is already crazy. This game will FN sell millions of copies in the first year! Its Not Too Late Sega!

 

Have you been paying attention? Where does this blind faith come from?
-----

Sega is like the Democrats, they're the only guy worth supporting but time and again they just let you down because they have no fucking balls.

Of course this is a shit analogy because while 3rd party candidates are preferable, in a gaming analogy, they're the shitty MMA games. And like my sig says...

 

PO, I think you are seriously overlooking important stuff.

The MMA craze is not democratic. Its pandering to the people who already bought into MMA on TV.

Sega never gave us Shenmue 3 or PD Saga 2 just to name a couple. We never got a sequel to Rez either. This is not the first time in Sega long history that the company goes about their business regardless of fans demands.

I think you are seriously confusing democracy with committes. Sega makes the game it want to make, and its up to the counsumer to like it or not. I think what you are suggesting is an inversion of that role. Look at the games that Sega made to please fans...they turned out to be short lived.

The new MMA game may sell well, but next year its going to be forgotten, then in 3 years time people are going to be sick of MMA games. We VF fans are here to play the game, not to conform to the latest trend.

Finally, let me ask you, do you think an artist creates his art by inspiration or just to please popular taste?

EDIT: Maybe I need to think about this a bit more, but your definition of democracy seems to indicate that fighting games made through fan feedback are democratic. but as a scientist, PO you must know that sometimes choices have to be made, and the people better equipped to make those choices are not average 'laymem' but experts. fighting games are of a different nature from FPS where focus-testing is used to make the player flow better through a level.

If you ask the 'layman' what VF should be like, he will tell you it should be like Tekken or DOA. but if you go listen to You Suzuki interview, he says something to the effect that VF has become stale and he rather do something new. its always a balancing act between 'more of the same' and 'lets create something new'. these are tough decisions, and I think AM2 is better equipped to make the right choice than the 'fans'.



Eurogamer: Will there ever be a truly accessible fighting game?

Toshimichi Mori: It is impossible to create a fighting game everyone can play. The basic rule of a fighting game is: one wins and one loses. As long as that's the basic rule of a fighting game, there will never be a perfect fighting game that everyone can enjoy.

 

@MatteoJHDY so that you know I'm not just referring to the latest MMA games and the new Fight Night Champion, Here is
Democracy based approach for the Soul Calibur fans:

Democracy for Soul Calibur 5 FANS!!!!

If you check out that first post, its clear democracy (community driven approach) is in full swing on the new SC5. If you poke around 8wayrun.com It will be painfully obvious that Namco listens to their fans during the entire process.
The same thing is in motion with Tekken 7.

For my crude definition of democracy in this case, I mean the fighting game fans having some voice and input into whether there will be another game, what features that game will have,and being able to be heard when there is a agreed upon problem with the game.

In terms of the longevity of MMA games, my friend, I have K1
for the PS1 and PS2 and Kung Fu Factory's stuff goes back to the Dreamcast. MMA is not going anywhere. Its not a fad, its been around a long time, its just finally goin mainstream.

Of course we leave things like balance to the developers. But if Sega listened more to the Layman, the game would be more popular than it is today. It is possible to have a game that has extrememly deep gameplay, character balance, and most of the things the fans want at the same time.

C'mon Matt, If you want to be successful, do the things that successful people do. EA sports.com and ufcundisputed.com are big budget web sites that cater to the fight fans. Both are dedicated to promoting the game, building the community, and getting feedback from the community. These fighting games have sold millions and millions of copies. Fight Night Champion was released March 1, 2011 its already about to surpass(if it hasn't) VF (total sales since launch) a large part of the success is their democracy approach.

WTF is Sega doing? We know they're not broke because they are constantly putting out new games. Yakuza 4 (is about to be released soon for consoles) Virtua Fighter is no more esoteric than Yakuza 4 to people outside of Japan, yet Sega keeps us supplied with a steady Yakuza stream.

What is clear, is Sega has no idea how to build and maintain a fighting game community. They have no idea how to promote a fighting game. EA and THQ and Kungu Factory, and Namco are getting right. Ask the fans what they want and give them what you practically can out of that list. Fighting game communities are among the most loyal gaming communities in the world. They need care and feeding. Sega is oblivious to that fact. If you take care of a fighting game community, they will take care of you.

If Millions of people buy Soul Calibur, and Millions of people buy UFC undisputed, and Millions of people buy Fight Night, then its clear that there are Millions of people interested in Fighting games. If you look at the forums that support these games you will see a democratic process in place, one that is not in place when it comes to Sega and Virtua Fighter.

Of course a true artist does not take a poll before deciding what art to produce I underestand that. But I'm not suggesting that you give fans control over character balancing, the fight engine, or the basic game play mechanics. I'm suggesting that fans should have a voice in the cosmetics of the game, in the number and type of game modes that are offered, choices of music, Online features, etc. That's the stuff that helps to determine how successful a game is.

MatteoJHDY says:

"The new MMA game may sell well, but next year its going to be forgotten, then in 3 years time people are going to be sick of MMA games. We VF fans are here to play the game, not to conform to the latest trend."
[/size]

Unless Sega gets Democratic when it comes to VF. My biggest fear is that in 3 years time (2014-2015) People won't know what Virtua Fighter even is and all that will be left will be MMA and the next gen combat sport fighting games.

 

PO, you make good points,

the community aspect of games is more sophisticated in US. Just look at bungie, they really took the game to another level...even if no one has implemented youtube replay in their games yet.

VF is pretty much a Japanese game in that respect. But you speak of MMA games as if they were comparable to VF games. they are not. nobody is going to care about UFC 2009 in 2011. people are still playing VF4 (2002?). Japanese fighting games are among the most longeve game there are.

What you are encouraging is a consumistic approach to game making, in contrast to the 'artistic way'. are you familiar with zelda wind waker? Okami? Viewtful Joe? Rez? all these games performed poorly at retail, but are the games that defined a generation.

I will give my respect to MMA games/ tekken/ Soul Calibur when they start spending as much time on the fighting system as they do on the community aspect. I can live without competition, but I cant live with mortal kombat.

So the ball is in your court. I say quality over quantity.

 

YO Matteo I share your romanticism for VF (a true masterpiece)
MK, Zelda, Okami, I would add ZOE to the list. If I'm nothing else I'm a gamer and have been since (wasps on the VIC 20), so I appreciate games that are not sell outs, and that are true to form.

But.... I don't think UR familiar with the combat sports community in the same way UR familiar with the aracade fighting game community. First, the combat sport community is much much much larger. They do play their games for decades. There are loyalists to Knockout Kings 2000 out there, people who hold Fight Night Round 3 as the gold standard,,,, There are fans that swear by those WWE wrestling and smack down games. These people hold tournaments through out the year and their forums are extremely active and LARGE! There are lots of MMA fighters that already hold UFC 2009 as a classic and chose not to go to UFC 2010. So when you say in 2011 nobody's going to care are UFC 2009, that's incorrect my friend.. they're still playing UFC 2009 and I would be willing to bet that on any given day there are more UFC 2009 tournaments going on in the world than there are VF4 tournaments. And if people aren't thinking about UFC 2009, its because they're playing UFC 2010 or EA's MMA, or anticipating UFC 2012. Isn't that a novel idea! The MMA fans actually have some idea when the next version of their game is coming out!!! We have no idea whether there will be VF6 or VF7 while at the same time EA and THQ have pretty much committed to putting out a new version every other year.

In 1976 Sega put out the very first fighting game of any kind and it was a boxing game Don't underestimate the loyalty
or resolve of the combat sport community they are actually older and bigger and generally more active than the MK/SF community.

UFC 2009 sold over 14 million copies, sure some of that was band wagon jumpers, johnny-come-lately, fans, but a big chunck of it were people that's been playing combat sport games since K1-grand prix from the PS1 days, and they're going to be playing it for a long time to come, because not only is there a large fighting fan base out there, but THQ is backing the community with a big budget website, and constant stream of online activities. The same goes for EA's combat sport fighting games.

And in terms of spending money on the community aspect but not the fighting system C'mon man have you played Fight Night Champion it has got to be one of the best boxing engines
in the world (really). EA's MMA Fighting Engine wow for the first time out its incredible. And considering UFC 2009 was THQ's first offering compare that fighting engine to VF 1

I follow a lot of fan requests as it relates to the combat sports games. A lot of requests are made by real practioners in the sport and a lot of the request to change the fighting engine come from real world experience in the sport. Also
CAF (Create A Fighter) is becoming standard in fighting games:

Look at SC IV and SC III. And for SC5 the fans want even more customization.

CAF in the Boxing game is so extensive until you can put your own face on your created character, or create a character with any one's face, body builds, types, nationalities, hair styles, clothing options, fighting styles, height, weight, age, etc are all becoming standard in Fighting Games.

The online modes that are being requested over and over and over again include online tournament modes, online PPV modes, online Team modes, online fighting camps. The fighting game developers are listening to the fans and adding these modes.

This kind of stuff does not take from the artistic or original, or authenticity of the game play or fighting game engine. It simply goes to satisfy the fans.

I realize VF is basically a Japanese Arcade Fighter, but I think SC spent a little time in the Japanese Arcades too
Namco has found a way , and a reason to listen to their fans when it comes to Tekken and SC. Maybe that's why they've sold
a few million copies and VF with no democracy has not.

And as far as arcades go... Dude, that whole format is no longer the gamer experience of choice and it is very last generation. State of the art new generation Gaming has 50 inch
HD monitors, with HD theatre sound, with fat pipes to the Cloud (Internet) with multiple controller options 3d, camera, chat, VOIP, sitting in a comfortable chair of your choice and environment of your choice, without the smoke,germs, and token
requirements of the Arcade.

Think of it this way from a business perspective. There are far far more consoles in the world than there are Japanese arcade machines. From a business perspective it would make more sense to produce and promote VF so that it would be successful on the consoles and then make a port for the arcades. Obviously globally there is far more money to be made on the consoles because the consoles have got to outnumber the
number of aracades by the millions Even if you consider
ppl pay to play in the arcades, That's precisely whats going on with WOW or with XBL ppl play to pay. The arcades are dinosaurs, even in Japan. Gaming is just so past arcades. Again, Sega needs to modernize. This is a world of Web 2.0
and Social Computing/Gaming. Facebook/Website/Youtube/Twitter tie ins to the game where you can get Fan feedback is whats required.

@MatteoJHDY if Sega continues to do just what they're doing with VF marketing and ignoring the community, I would be willing to bet you that by 2016, five years from now, the fighting game genre and community will have evolved so much, that Sega could release VF6 and it wouldn't get noticed. It wouldn't be a factor. The feature set would be so out of step with what ppl consider to be standard parts of a fighting game until they would consider VF6 cute and a nice nostalgic download, a classic, but nothing that ppl play anymore.

C'mon considering the trajectory of gaming. Try to imagine what the Japanese Arcade will be like in 2017 (if there any in 2017)

 

PO,

Your reasoning is impeccable, but let me offer some counter argument:

VF5 is still the best looking fighter out there, 5 years on. Sega was so ahead of the curve, the rest of the world is still catching up. Same for online fighting. have you played SC4 online? its atrocious, lows are impossible to guard in lag.

Personally, I cannot play MMA/Wrestiling/Boxing games, aside RRXX. I just hate the slowness and the 'Americaness' of it all, so I may be biased toward japanese fighting games.

You have a lot of faith in games that will/should be good...like tekken 7 and SC5. Lets hope they are. I dont think any game is as good as VF right now. If you search for markman posts about TK6 on neogaf, he was saying that the game looks 10 times better than VF5. It didnt, it doesent, it never will. But it worked, he believed what he was saying, so did others. Namco has not made an outstanding fighting game since SC1 IMO. Look as SC3...thats what you get when games are made for consoles only.

VF6 will always be noticed by the fighting game fans...yours is an assumption, and I think a wrong one. If history reapeat itself, then VF6 will be so ahead of the curve that Namco and the others will have to make SC5 SC6 and SC7 just to catch up with Sega.

Customization wise, I want what FS 'got, but create a fighter is gay IMO. I mean, its truly homosexual. I rather play with dolls than dress up virtual homoerotic fantasies. but thats me.

 

Agreed VF5 is the best looking fighter out there (SCIV) a very close second. SCIV has best looking stages though.

Japanese biases shared (my game collection would show that)

VF5 is the best fighting game out there (for now)

Here's the problem we maxed out on features in VF4 EVO.

VF4 EVO had awesome tutorial mode -- Gone in VF5
VF4 EVO had quest challenges -- Gone in VF5
VF4 EVO had stats and recommendat -- Gone in VF5
VF4 EVO had view all moves in tut -- Gone in VF5
VF4 EVO had underground tourneys -- Gone in VF5
VF4 EVO attention detail 4 access. - Gone in VF5
VF4 EVO customizable wallpaper -- Gone in VF5
VF4 Individual Profiles -- Gone in VF5
VF4 EVO replays all modes -- Gone in VF5
VF4 EVO had video extras -- Gone in VF5

VF4 Final Tuned did not come to consoles. I patiently waited like a loyal fan should. When we finally got VF5 it was very
bare bones compared VF4 EVO. So for VF5 Sega went in the opposite direction when it came to the console port. We had considerably less features in VF5 than we did in VF4 EVO.
Now VF5R has come and gone. There is no news that will even see VF5FS. I would love for VF6 to be a trailblazer, and be so far ahead of everybody else in the fighting game industry, but with how Sega has butchered the console versions. Look VF5 on XBL is at what version C? while VF5 on PS3 is at version B with no online. What kind of statement was Sega trying to make with that one? XBox with online cap, PS3 no online cap

You can only beat your wife so long b4 she leaves you.

If Sega took a democratic approach to VF we would have

1) Portable Profiles for offline VS
2) Online Quest Challenges
3) Online Tournament Mode
4) Online Capability for the PS3 Owners
5) Online Team Mode
6) Offline Team Battle
7) Full blown tutorial mode like in EVO
8) Full Replay capability all modes with Cam Angles and speeds
9) Underground Tournaments (with ability to watch cpu vs cpu)
10)True VF.TV for PSN and XBL
11)Offline Quest Mode/Arcade Mode Challenges
13)Player profile with full statistics and recommend 4 improv.
14)Customizable Wallpapers
15)State of the Art AI made from real players

None of those 15 things would make VF any less of a masterpiece, any less artistic, or sell out. On the contrary the community would be bigger and happier than it is now.

Sure one use of CAF is to get into the homoerotic dress up thing. But another is to add your own roster of fighters, I would add Chuck Norris or Steven Segal
Michelle Yoeh Bruce Lee Kwai Change Cain Tony Jaa for Muay Thai, sure the movelists would stay the same , but it would just add that much more fun.

I have played and do play SC4 online, and here's what I notice, almost no one plays with the characters plain vanilla. Some of
what keeps the match interesting is what your opponent is gonna
bring out next

I truly hope I'm wrong about V6 and I hope UR right. But judging from the VF4 EVO to VF5 game-feature-wise we took a big step backward. And Sega pretty much said to the fanbase, take it or leave it. There was virtually no DLC to address any of the complaints. No democracy whatsoever

 

I don't think the latest releases of the Tekken and Soul Calibur franchise were developed based on demands from the fans, this new trend is only a feature of games that have yet to be released.

Also, there's no guarantee Namco is looking at the threads on 8wayrun.com. People just make those threads. 8WR is not the only SCIV site around either, so I don't really see that as evidence of Project Soul of Namco listening to their fans. SC5 wouldn't even be coming if weren't for the success of the latest FGs.

You're overestimating the effects of democracy. A fighting game for everyone would suck, period. The more you pander to masses who by definition have horrible taste, the worse it will be for those with specific and good taste.

We really just want them to satisfy our taste, or those of an as large group as those of other communities. If this is what you meant, then "democracy" is horrible analogy. If you really meant democracy, then your proposition is horrible.

 

Signia posts:

"Also, there's no guarantee Namco is looking at the threads on 8wayrun.com. People just make those threads."
[/size]
@Signia its my understanding that the person who goes under the name filthierich is a Super Moderator at 8wayrun.com and is a Namco Community Manager with direct line to Soul Calibur Development efforts. Check out Link

Proof Of Namco Democracy at Work

Hey mate, I'm not overestimating the effects of democracy. On the other hand you are equivocating "pandering to" with "listening to" those two things don't mean the same thing. You can have a vote but not always get what you want. You can have a voice in the matter, but things may not always go your way. That's very different matter from pandering.

@Signia Your reference to the "masses" also is misplaced here. First of all, "the masses" in general are not interested in fighting games. Out of all the people in the world that consider themselves gamers there is only a percentage of that group that are interested in fighting games. Secondly, out of the people that are interested in fighting games, some of those are casual fighting game fans and are not likely to get on a forum and make demands about what should go into the next release of some fighting game. So when it really comes down to it the people who are going to be on 8wayrun or any other site dedicated to fighting games asking the developer to add feature X or take out feature Y are likely to be your peers, exactly the people who you believe should have a say so.

And, if you read my posts, my suggestion was not that the developer change the fighting engine, or the basic genre that the fighting game belongs to at the whim of the fans, but that they listen to fighting community when it comes to features, and modes, and online capabilities.

I realize that some of the players in this community are so hardcore that all they need is a VS mode online and VS mode offline. Hell they don't even need a practice mode, or dojo. Let's just get to it. But trust me, you cats are in the minority The majority of the fighting fan community want first and foremost a solid fighting engine, with balanced characters, and then after that every feature and mode you can add, along with good music, exciting stages, background story, etc. Its called more bang for the buck.[/size]

@Signia Namco does consider feedback from its community when
developing its Tekken and SC franchises. First if you poke around 8WR archives it'll be obvious that there were plenty of opportunity for the community's voice to be heard, second, what do you think the purpose of demos are? Or of beta releases, and beta tournaments? All of that is to get feedback from the gamer prior to final release. One of the reason's why Tekken sells over twice as many copies and SC sells over 4 times as many copies as VF is Namco listens to their fans and tries to give them (as best they can) the game they want. There is just to much evidence of that on the net for you to challenge it.


Folks, I'm not asking that you agree with me on everything, but when I state the obvious, like its a good thing for game developers to be responsive to the requests of their primary customer base (the fighting game fans), and that when they are it ultimately leads to better games that the fans want to buy and play. Its not rational for you to disagree.

This posts asks a question: Can the, (Will the) Virtua Fighter franchise survive in an environment that is increasingly becoming more and more democratic. Web 2.0, features like facebook, youtube, and twitter are all used to gauge fan feedback, involvement, dissatisfaction, etc with the product. They are used to promote tournaments, product announcements, DLC, patches, give surveys, interviews with developers, etc. Sega currently does none of that with VF, and the question was can/will the virtua fighter franchise survive in that context?

If you don't have an opinion one way or the other, that's fine,
don't respond to the post. If you think my question is not valid, then by all means lets hear why. If you have an answer to my question then bring it. But if the goal is just to attack MasterPo and his posts don't waste your time. Here's
why:

 

PO,

My answer is yes, they can survive, because they always had the best game out in every generation, and never failed to beat the competition in the past.

the irony is that a developer has to listen to its fans only when they cock up a game so badly like SC4 (patched for infinites?) and Tekken 6 (patched for netcode? cant remember). Namco HAS to listen to the fans because of the discontent with SC4 and TK6.

You seem to put the story the other way around, if you know what I mean: its not that namco has made great games thanks to fans support, its more that they are trying to avoid making a shitty one the next time.


On this basis, we have no ground to claim that the next VF is going to be irrelevant.

 

What r u talking about Matt? VF is irrelevant right now. As far as T6 the fans wanted a proper training mode better online connections and not so much emphasis on getting your money in scenario mode. Which game is better? T6 or VF5? That's an matter of opinion..... don't play yourself like that.

 

Of course all I wrote is my opinion,

I cant keep writing IMO every sentence, but if you want me to I will.

IMO tekken 6 is not as good as VF5. Imo its uglier and animates worse. Imo its options are overall weaker. IMO VF5 quest mode is better. IMO VF5 plays better online. IMO I rather play VF5 until the next VF comes around. IMO I dont care if VF is not a financial sucess, as long as I am happy with it and my friends (marly, seidon) want to play sometimes.

 

MatteoJHDY posted:

"You seem to put the story the other way around, if you know what I mean: its not that namco has made great games thanks to fans support, its more that they are trying to avoid making a shitty one the next time."
[/size]

No.,. either situation makes my point. Whether they listened to the fans and ended up with a good game, or they listened to the fans in trying not to make a shitty game, the key point is they are listening to the fans. Its somewhat democratic. The people have a voice, even if it is small.

Would you call VF5 (from a sales point of view) a failure? When compared with sales of SC4 and T6?

Its a technical success no doubt From a gameplay point of view
it a tour de force a triumph. And so many of the hardcore players loved it that they switched consoles to play it online. But from Sega's point of view was it a success or failure? Did it cost Sega money to make VF5 or did Sega make money off VF5 on consoles? What I seem to remember from Sega officials are: We have no plans at this time.... Or at this time we have no plans... Or currently there are no plans etc. when it comes to another VF for consoles.

If that's what the fans of VF hear from the officials after years of begging for VF5R /VF5FS, how many new players do you think will be attracted? How many ppl on this board do you think VF5 was the very first experience with VF? Most of the ppl were long time fans, many of whom are getting to old to play (present company excluded) or have just moved on
because there's not much competition any more. Sega is not planting any seeds for the next generation of VF players. If they released a VF6 today do you think it would sell one million copies by next March? And believe me one million copies is starting to be a bench mark of sorts.

Look, I want there to be a VF6, VF7, VF8.... but with Sega current fiancial picture, the tragedy that has now happened to Japan with so much loss of life, community, and business, its going to take a miracle.