Help with Brad ;-;

Hi all,

I really, really, REALLY, need help defeating Sarah with Brad, please.

I'm at Arcade H, and Ohsu Akira (Sarah), BlackWidow, Arachnid and another one I forgot the name simply own my Brad.

It's simple, if they enter Flamingo, I lose >_<

I know I should or something, but I never really had any problem defeating Sarah with Kage, I had a harder time with Jeffry, but now, look at that, already 20 losses against a Sarah in Arcade H (even though Ohsu Akira is a special) /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Help about how to deal with her flamingo will be much apreciated.
Also, help with Brad will be appreciated, too, I was doing ok in Arcade G, I even faced Napoleon, BunbunMaru and Hama Lau and beat them.

But Arcade H pwns my Brad (hence my Sentinel rank >_>).

The thing is, most of the combos I use with Brad are either from a counter move (can be annoying) or from a guaranted throw move (I usually TE from 2 moves, sometimes 3, but it's not always enough).
And the CPU almost never falls for from slipping left or right, no matter how you try to use it (bluntly or in the middle of various other combos) because the opponent has to be standing to suffer the facial collapse or standing/crouching for the gut collapse -- so good when he does fall for it though >_>

I've never played Brad against a human yet, but Brad taught me to TE a lot faster (I can actually pull out 3 TEs most of the time, now), and playing Brad also improved my exact recovery skills, yay for getting beat up by CPU.

I want Kage ;-;


Edit: I tried to face Mask du HT with my Kage to see how he played, I was not that impressed >_> remembering that there are actual replays from the Japanese players on the game disc, I took a look at the ones featuring Mask du HT, and well, besides his incredible skill at the game I do not possess, we "play the same" (I mean he's faster, better, everything, but basically I'm just a slower version of him; I know that sounds vain, it's ok, say it >_>)

 

First of all, learn how flamingo works. There has been many threads about this and it's not so hard.
You should never do when Sarah enters the flamingo as she will (most of the time) be +4 even when she enters it on your gaurd. Hence her standing , which is a special high, will beat everything you throw out - even your 2p. I think most people who have alot of trouble against CPU sarah simply fail to understand these two things. Other then that (I'm of to uni) I've played alot against Sarah and here are some fast pointers.

You can slipright her standing when she enters flamingo on you for massive damage. Since that's an option Sarahs use alot (both as a flowchart and as a poke with it's great stats) this is exellent. Other then that; if you have trouble getting the slip punches in you should learn to do them when the opponent is prone to evade. Slipping is a very complex matter and you should also learn how to cancel them to threaten with other things and prob ultimatly bring it into stepping etc. If you really want to hurt a LW evader like Sarah though you should learn how to delayattack and use this combo: >> (modified upper)>. That's the true maxcombo for normalhit in this case and does more then the one recommended in trainingmode.

Bla bla, also remember - Sarah is very much midkick based - specially from a distance, so use your reversal when you see things coming (Brad has a very long window for his reversal).

Might write more when I get home. Hf.

/KiwE

 

Since Kiwe has already given you the most important info (flamingo) I just wanna add two little things I find useful against Sarah.

1. Against AI, keep moving and stay just out of range of her advancing kicks. When she approaches (with flamingo or whatever) time your +, and then pressure the downed opponent.

2. In general (against both AI and Humans) be patient when playing against a lightweight chara such as Sarah. Don't worry if she pokes away like crazy. Coz when you land one combo with Brad she can kiss away 30-40% of her lifebar.

 

Ok, some more, just general antiflamingo:

If you don't feel for the SR when she enters flamingo your best bet is to duck, without attacking, and then attack her after the first has whiffed over your head (do 2p>throw or whatever but the upper is the best payoff). You should be able to fuzzy gaurd (duck a but still rise fast enough to gaurd her midkick in this case) - her midkick as it's 18 frames and that's the only midtool the AI uses of her. Other then that a standard tip when Sarah, specially AI, goes into flamingo is to evade towards her front (go standard evade p+k+g). That's also a thing that's important to remember in general as K is semicircular. If Sarah goes KKK the AI almost always ends with a midkick = reversal / do what you want time (evade to front and do something big if you want).

/KiwE

 

One helpful hint i can give you on Brad vs Sarah is to do + when she goes to flamingo. everytime she tried flamingo i always did that. I could have done some other things for more damage, but i just love using that move to punish her for using flamingo. I like to use that move and just thought I'd give you that little helpful hint. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

Oh, almost forgot, try to master too. It is really helpful and can be the begginer for big damage combos. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Thanks for the input, especially KiwE, that's very helpful, thank you.

I do have trouble with landing slipping right/left consistently in arcade H, I'll practice.

There's also 1 thing that incredibly annoy me about Sarah's Flamingo, she can do catch throws, quite powerful at that x_x

I'll put your advice to use when I get back to VF4 Evo.

I tried the reversal a few times, precisely because of the large window it offers, but Sarah's powerful, I'm quickly at 1/4 health or below with her =/

I usually do what you mentioned above, wait for the first high kick to fly over my head and then , it works most of the time, but slight mistakes lead to big punishment in Arcade H.

I actually completed the fuzzy guard challenge, maybe it's time to put it to use. I don't use it that much, while several players told me it's very useful.

I tried evades a few times, regretted it >_>

I'll try slipping right to counter her Flamingo high , that would really solve my problems.

I also regret that Brad is very limited in the throws department, in number and power =/

I don't use + against her flamingo, nor any attack, actually, because her special high kick seems to have priority against everything (not sure, heh).
is indeed a great combo starter, but is a guaranted throw move, like , so it's best to use it in counter hit situations, for insctance.

I haven't used the "catch" so far, is it worth it ?

must... read... guides...

 

No offence but saying to use + (16frames) against flamingo just doesn't make any sense at all Akira_PH. When she's in flamingo you'll never get to use it. Ever. And if you're talking from a distance and you need something + is a much better option due to it's speed and garanteed damage. "Mastering " isn't a tip worh remembering either.

Just to recap; if the first goes over your best bet is to do the upper ASAP for garanteed damage (LW combos are huge payoff), not really the 2p. Brad combos > Brad throws and 2p>throw/attack isn't really garanteed.
If you're gonna evade you have to evade to her front (her K is semicircular) and do the evade attack (evade>++) otherwise her string will catch you if you try anything else. Her catch throw will miss you if you are sitting down in which you can punish very hard (try it out). You can't do that though if you're to far behind in frames as after a MC flamingo K which gives Sarah +12 frames (garanteed punch tt) which she would get if you tried to 2p her asap.

is not a great combostarter and mostly used against LW's cause you get to do the >ducking and wallcombos etc on normalhit. Use it for RN (reversenitaku) mainly. is much faster and in general a better launcher. If you want to apply it more you can try doing it after evading a big move if you understand frames.

Yup, read guides. Start of with Mykes to get a better general understanding of Brad. And watch more clips. It might be abit hard finding evo Brad clips now but there are some up on our Swedish site (Oshu is always fun watching) here.

/KiwE

 

I think he meant as a counter hit, which is a good launcher, but like you said, is better, and it's probably the move I use most with Brad.

Anyway, thank you, KiwE, you're really helpful, I appreciate it =]

 

I don't know what you mean. I use + mostly against her because nearly everytime i fight her i end up real close to her and get the opportunity to do it and it has worked for me. I only do it if I'm close though, otherwise I use + like you said. As for I do mostly use it for counter hitst as I love its damage potential. Even though its a guaranteed throw move I still risk it when I think its neccessary. I have had some good success against her flamingo sometimes with that. I'ts deffinetly worth it to try to take advantage of that move. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Nope.

is a 24 frame move. The odds of it MC'ing something (you starting your exec of the move prior to the other person doing so) is slim to none cause of that. I don't know who you play or even if you're playing the AI on easy setting but there's no way in hell, I atleast, in my competition around here would even dream about using something like that against flamingo. Anyways, I guess it's a difference of opinion but to be honest I really doubt how much you've played Brad when you say things like that (and I hate to play that card).

The more frames a move is the more time for it to be MC'ed - using it against a speedy character like Sarah who posseses such a great distancetool like DC isn't exactly great in my book. The trouble is also with moves of this speed that in order for it to go naturally into a flowchart and MC the next move the opponent does you would have to be doing it from a 13 frame advantage in order to win against Sarahs 11 frame punch (which would be her fastest tool). Note that even when used as RN it will hit as mC (in the recovery) - not MC. There are of course situations it can MC, like in Oki, from a backdash, from evading something very big from a small diss etc, but I strongly dissagree with your opinion about 46k etc being of great importance when playing Sarah and using it up close. That's my 2 cents, whatever works for you works for you I guess so hf with it.

Np, Kefka btw - glad to be of help. If you ever have a specific Brad question feel free to pm me and I'll try to answer.

/KiwE

 

Re: Nope.

Well Kiwe, it seems that you are a Brad player and my props to you. I myself am an Akira player, but have just recently started to play with Brad. Anyway, your'e right that() it's not guaranteed and takes time to execute, but it has been proven useful to me. For me I like to use it and it works because of THE WAY I USE IT. I'm not saying to go through with only that move, I just said that it would prove useful. Obviously I'm not a Brad player, but I still know how to at leat get through a match using my Brad tactics. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

Re: Nope.

Np, if it works for you it works for you. 46k has some uses after all and I've always been abit negative towards it - would have loved for it to have some secondary property like sabaki against an attack or just to be alittle faster so it could be of more use as a evade punisher though. Example; I've just started to understand something that always puzzled me - the use of after a + throw. It's good if the opponent delays his rising (good float on crouchers aswell) and it's not TC, as hyped, if done immideatly. Up until the point where people started using fuzzy while QR'ing from 46p+g I had no use for it though. And I really shouldn't connect it at all at the speed it's at (but I do cause people seem to look for the dash first before letting go of down) but aslong as I can use it I will cause it's nice payoff and safe. In a nutshell; if it works use it.

On a sidenote I think certain things work better / seems more wonderful dependent on where you are in your VF development (don't mean to sound pompus). Anti flamingo threads and threads about how the flamingo is a great problem are many but it's not really such a big problem. Where are the threads that complain about DC though? DC is much more powerful than flamingo in evo as it's not like a Sarah player can go in and do KKK allday and you can say "oh well if I duck she can do kickflip". Risk isn't just a boardgame and one wrong guess from Sarah means she's fucked (being a LW hurts) and if you look at her actual payoff in most guesses it's not really much. If you have a friend who plays Sarah pray to god he doesn't learn how to use the DC well cause then the flamingo troubles will seem like nothing in retrospective (mark my words) /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/KiwE (Don't give up on Brad. The world needs more Brad players !)

 

Re: Brad

Ok, Brad Guardian, and a bunch of Guardians down, if all goes well, I'll be Hero soon.

Practice makes perfect, but your advice was certainly useful.

I'm starting to beat some Arcade players "easily", but on the other hand I face Tana Shun (Lion with mantis mask) 3 times, ans 3 times I lost (so that makes 12 losses against him >_<); he's incredible, he landed like 6 or 7 excellents, I can barely move, he makes Chibita a wimp (AI-wise >_>), I already thought Zig Zag from Arcade F was stronger than Chibita, but Tana Shun pwns them both by far.

A true wonder I had not noticed him with Kage or Jeffry =/

And I did beat Chibita with Brad, twice at that ! (I have the 2 orb items, I met Heruru once, but lost)

Sadly, KiwE, I do not think I'll keep Brad after I take him to Champion, he's just not made for me, I always punish with throws (and sometimes regret it), and his throws just suck.
I like him, I really enjoy playing with him, especially when I win -- harder it is to win, more enjoyable is the victory, right ?
And he looks uber cool (well, that counts >_>).
But I'm a Kage player, as unoriginal as it seems ._.
I also like Jeffry a lot, and actually have a lot less trouble playing him.

I dunno, maybe I should play VS more, but there are barely players here =/ ah... if only it was online ;-;

Anyway, that Lion (Tana Shun) is a total pain, Lion always is, with his combos starting by low attacks >_<
I rarely guard low, heh, I should have learned my lesson by now, but no.

I also faced Arizona (Brad Guardian), not really noticed so far, but he's very good, I tried to learn some stuff from him (and lost once XP).

I now have to do the last quest orders in Arcade H (20 wins in a row / 3 excellents to a Champion) and it does not seem feasible >_< but, well, I thought the same for Jeffry...

I'm starting to land more SR/SL , and my TE skills are becoming so good that if it were possible, the AI would be pissed XD
How do you punish an opponent that got hit by SR ? I just use =/

And what about his "catch", any use ?

Edit: I just beat Obsidian (Sarah Guardian), and SR does work very well against her Flamingo (I still need practise of course), many thanks =]

 

Re: Brad

[ QUOTE ]
How do you punish an opponent that got hit by SR ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check in trainingmode as it's a combo starter. In general do kpk against heavier ppl and kp(ducking)k against LW's etc. If people techroll (specially after kp(ducking)k) they are in facedown/crumble pos and you can hit them with a ducking + garanteed if you time it right.

[ QUOTE ]
And what about his "catch", any use ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your best bet would be to watch the table here at the bottom of the page. Catch isn't that good and can be punished. It's main use would be cause it can't be TE'd so as if someone does ETE but then again Brad could delayattack/slippunch/ whatever instead. It's better / more safe to go for after some attacks then others as the table shows - it's hella improved for FT.

/KiwE

 

Re: Brad

Is SR the head collapse ? cuz I do punish the head collapse with .

I meant the gut collapse, I thought SR was the gut collapse >_>

And again, thank you.

 

Re: Brad

SL is gut collapse.

After the gut collapse you can do , then +. The has to be delayed so that it causes the opponent to bounce. The timing takes a little bit of training.


You can also follow gut collapse with or +

 

Re: Nope.

To my knowledge (which has failed a few times), nearly always hits if opponent tries *anything* right after -right sway-kick -> block hit. It eats low punches for **cks sake! Not to be abused, sure, but nice to know when you are at it...

[ QUOTE ]
Kefka said:

Is SR the head collapse ? cuz I do punish the head collapse with .


[/ QUOTE ]

You should do after head collapse against Sarah. you can attack faster afterwards too.

 

Re: Brad

For what it's worth, here's a little advice against A.I. Lion (standard difficulty, applicable also to the latter arcades).

#1 Patience
#2 At least twice per round or so, Lion will usually do one of his strings which either end high or low, meaning that if you block the last hit low you're safe either way. Punish this mercilessly and you should have at least 50% of his bar.
#3 Should an A.I. Lion throw you, tech the throw and immediately do a for MC and combo appropriately.

Unsurprisingly, the above won't work against humans but if all you are looking for with regards to Brad is making him Champion maybe it'll help a bit.

 

Re: Brad

Thank you, DRE

[ QUOTE ]
Neonomide said:
To my knowledge (which has failed a few times), nearly always hits if opponent tries *anything* right after -right sway-kick -> block hit

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll try that, thanks.

[ QUOTE ]
you should do after head collapse against Sarah. you can attack faster afterwards too.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I shoud >_> but it's easy to panic against Sarah or Lion, and I often forget the ducking part, sometimes I even do thinking I did a gut collapse and not a head collapse =/

[ QUOTE ]
StoneColdSerb said:
#1 Patience

[/ QUOTE ]
; against Lion ? he keeps attacking >_< Tana Shun and Slacker are total pains, there is no way to be patient against them.

[ QUOTE ]
#3 Should an A.I. Lion throw you, tech the throw and immediately do a for MC and combo appropriately

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, I know what you mean, but I doubt Brad has any guaranteed move after TE any Lion throw =/ and the AI is a guard whore, human players guard less, I assure you (well in my experience, heh)

Thanks to you three for the inputs =]

I'm Hero now, I lost to Rich Kid, a Guardian, but I beat him again the 2nd time, so I'm back to Hero, I feel this Champion path is gonna be long... =/