How Big is the Non-Japanese Scene?

@UltraChenTV (@UltraDavid, and @jchensor) just had an episode about building non-mainstream fighting game scenes which I think I can safely say includes VF. I honestly don't know how big it is outside of Japanese events (which is seems big). They did however advertise this site on their show to encourage people to come here if they were curious about the game now that Final Showdown is coming out this summer. (European, American, and the like)

On a more personal note; is there any scene in Florida? I couldn't find any Florida threads.

 

The list may be old, but check out this list here. I'd recommend talking to 'tonyfamilia' also. He's from Florida.

 

Yeah, the main issue for VF is playing in flyover country in the US. It seems like most major, populated areas on both coasts have at least a few people playing. I'm sure it'll pick up with FS, I think Sega is hitting all the right marketing notes for hardcore gamers, at least on ol' youtube.

 

They talk about Hypespotting around the hour fifteen minute mark.

 

I managed to distinguish the following advice they give for promoting a fighting game:

* participate in tournaments, even if the game is not the main event
* establish "heroes" & "villains"
* don't diss other people's games
* establish parallels between characters not necessarily just comparisons between systems
* establish a local scene

Anybody picked other advice?

 

It's up to the local areas and how accepting they are of new games.

Most areas in this country won't consider a game unless it has gi-wearing dorks and CAPCOM on the box.

I don't think this attitude is as prevalent among the new-schoolers, and I think KOFXIII may have done a lot to help other games out in this regard.

If VF is successful, we may owe thanks to KOF.

 

Don't lose to anyone who doesn't play the game even though they can beast in other games.

 

You missed all the important ones, I guess.

Lets try again:
1. create a VF side tournament at a big event that features other fighting games, such as Evo
2. Get as many good VF players to participate that tournament as possible
3. Hype the game there as much as possible, giving other players a chance to see what the game is like when played at high level (played by good players) and get interested because of the hype. Kind of what was done with the FS demo in Atlanta, right?

Then theres other things like what Shidosha is doing, streaming when playing people in the net, again allowing people who dont play the game a glimpse of it, and chance to get interested. I really want to support what Shidosha is doing, great job man!

Ultra David and James Chen have their own stream broadcast couple times a week. We have a bit of catching up to do.

 

I totally disagree. They're entirely different groups of players. There was very little crossover when VF4E was out from that group. Tekken and Soul Calibur, yeah, maybe? DoA? I guess? KOF was a tiny scene for so many years, and most of them were SNK fanboys. I speak from experience.

 

You know what, I used to think along this line but I have to voice a dissent here at this point. Let's take Evo for example. Many here went there and saw, or at least had chances to see, SFs/Tekkens/SmashBRosOrWhatever being played at the world class level. How many got compelled to play competitively for those games in addition to VF because of that? You don't have time or inclination to play SF/Tekken/SMBOrWhatever you say? Exactly!

Most people at Evo are dedicated people--dedicated to whatever game/game family they play and that's why they are there. They don't have time to play ten different games seriously and if they did either they are professionals like Wong or some sad nerd with no life. Also you know what? High level plays can be boring as shit. Look at some high level Super Turbo plays and they can be seriously sleep inducing to laymen.

And I am not saying this to spew some hypothetical BS like mastertroll does, but I believe the history backs what I say. Who actually did the past VF presences in Evo convert to playing VF seriously?

I am not saying that one should stop trying to put VF into tournaments as there are other reasons to do so, but I seriously do question if such efforts are really meaningful as people think in terms of attracting actual players. If anything the people at EVO are the last people who will be converted to VF since they are the most dedicated to their games. If anything, more casual, non-hardcore events like Atlanta or Penny Arcade Expo may work better.

 

Its not like theres a magical button that you can press to instantly convert 1000 gamers into playing VF. This is continuous work. If you wont even try, you will surely accomplish nothing.

At least we have some motivation to do this now that we know that Sega actually cares.

 

You do realize Akira VF Franchise Character wears a GI too right? LOL

If VF5:FS is successful its because of the Fans and for Sega finally stepping up and handling business.

But yeah VF5:FS definitely needs more exposure. Hopefully more streams, some side tourneys and releasing the demo out around Evo 2012 so that way we gamers can play the demo after watching Evo VF5FS side tourney streams.

 

I think this is all really sound advice. I'm not sure about heroes and villans, sounds a bit theatrical. But I guess it gives people something to route for and it becomes a possible point of interest.

This especially. People say VF is hard to get into, well then you just tell them to have a go with whoever cause he's just like who they play in whatever other fighting game. It intrigues people, lures them in with supposed familiarity because people basically don't like change anyway.

 

I agree. If people see Justin Wong playing MK or KOF, you'll start seeing many SF and Marvel players playing as well. That sort of happened, but the opposite can happen too. Like when most pros dropped it, many others did as well. Though they have their own strong players.

 

1) How big do we need the scene to be?

2) Now that the game is on both consoles online, the scene can be kept alive
without necessarily having to travel far distances, the spectator mode, and online chat is not the same thing as being there, but its a nice second best thing to being there. The SC5 player rooms have shown the way. VF5FS will do the same thing.

3) VF will always be an acquired taste. It will always have a smaller community than the other fighting games.

4) I think mystique will eventually make VF a strong but small community world wide. A community that will justify a new console version every 4 or 5 years We have our own legends , word gets around. Hell I think there's a facebook group out there, called "Who wants to play MasterPO"
That alone will bring billions of players

All kidding aside, look at VF like Jazz, It does not sell as many records as Rock, Pop, or Country. But it has some of the best musicians and vocalists in the world. It has a relatively small (compared to Pop,Rock,etc) audience, but that audience is loyal and is willing to pay top dollar for the music, and will travel to hear it.

That's the case with VF. We don't have to have a big non-Japanese scene. We just need a steady, loyal scene, world wide scene regardless of size. I think online both consoles will help that happen.

Remember these facts.

1) Fighting games are among the most difficult video games to get good at and master. Therefore fighting games will never be a game for the masses.

2) Virtua Fighter is among the most difficult of all fighting games ever made.
To really be intermediate to good in VF, requires more time than most ppl who play video games would be willing to put in. So VF players will always be in the minority (just like world class chess masters)

3) After much confusion and false starts, I now know that VF player are born
not made, so stop trying. The ppl who will play VF will play VF and not a
person more. Real VF players are drawn to game through destiny and
once they taste victory in VF they rarely I mean rarely turn back.

Let's nurture the few players that join the VF universe every year through the new multiconsole online, and VFDC and the rest will take care of itself.
and just accept the fact that we will never have the most players,but in all likelihood will always have the best players with respect to fighting games.

 

I don't disagree with this at all, but what i have noticed ever since the boom of sf4 and the "rebirth" of the fighting game community is that people want to fit in. They want any reason to be part of a community. these tools work more so in our favor now, which is why i have been utilizing as much of them as i can to help promote VF and boost our scene.

I want to see this game grow, i want to see it at WCG again, even MLG. Even more so I would like to see this game supported by the massive FGC we already have established in the world.

there are alot more new kids on the block now, lets extend the invitation, lets talk about our game more often. lets challenge the "multi-game pros". lets use every medium to grow our community! I don't want to do be the only voice!

 

Shidosha may not be our only voice, but damn you are one of the more animated ones. I think it could be cool if in your stream you had nights where you have matches with players here and just kinda feature some good ol high level VF play. Then just get that publicity on SRK to get all those eyes on the game. There is some reception over there for VF, and maybe seeing more play will make them not as intimidated by the game.

 

The problem is, there's a very strong "follower" mentality at the Evo-related events and elsewhere in other fighting game communities - Shidosha is onto the dynamic, but I don't agree with his interpretation of the situation now. In my opinion, trying to get the word out about the game is the best we can do. Much beyond that, explaining the system at length or what's appealing about the game does fall on deaf ears in the context of a discussion, conversation, article or any other material. That's my experience across the board, even seeing it happen with other games that aren't VF, and to other players trying to introduce their favorite game to new players. The only exception I've witnessed is the rare person who is actually interested in something new.

The apathy, lack of good information, and the desire to fit in (again, this is the biggie) has always been why niche games gain very little momentum -- even dating back to 2002 when I started playing. There are still people who outright claim there's no way to learn VF because of how VFDC is organized or that the game is simply too difficult to learn. I think those are excuses. It could be better, the players could be as welcoming, civil and harmonious as possible, but until there are new players actively trying to get into the game, I see no reason to make any extra effort. I know others will disagree (I saw it somewhat differently at one point), and that's fine too.

Consider an example: A KOF player here in STL has bent over backwards to explain KOF's system at length, and no new players have surfaced and picked up KOF games in earnest as a result of these articles to my knowledge. I see no one posting feedback on them either. This is after years of US players finding fault with KOF for the smallest possible things, players complaining that a lot of the system was opaque or shallow, or the knowledge on offer wasn't useful enough, and Evo actively shutting that community out from their events by not having a KOF tourney. Even while there were hundreds of hours of KOF footage on YouTube for '98, 2k2, XI, and the UM versions. SRK's management wrongly assumed there was no organized support for KOF, so they refused to add KOF to their tournament lineup until KOF13 came out last year.

It used to be that you could hear the disdain for anything that isn't Marvel or SF at SRK-affiliated events, by the announcers who often didn't play the games (you can still witness this on streams for KOF, Blazblue, or anything else). I'd overhear negative comments about the game or some other nonsense playing (or watching someone play) anything non-Capcom. Why? I don't know.

For my money, SRK is actually more insular than VFDC. It also comes with a territorial inflection on top of that. It's a much larger community, and I acknowledge the forum trolls at SRK aren't all that relevant, but there's not much else about the events I've witnessed that's actually conducive to the simple goal of getting more people playing VF. At the same time, I wouldn't call it actively hostile, just insular and focused solely on Capcom products.

Off-site a lot of posters will still idealize VF, others will also make vast negative assumptions about the English-speaking community on VFDC. By and large, they play something else to the exclusion of other games -- like Hyunster says. I think Sega, VFDC and the communities outside VFDC all share a bit of the blame for this.

The "FGC" is the Capcom community, often the term gets stretched thin because new players will assume Evo is the core of the fighting game world and all the traditional Capcom majors suddenly want to diversify as a result. The reality is, there's no one, coherent "fighting game community", nor should there be. I see very little reason for it. You could argue it's a matter of exposure, but that's clearly not true -- look at Evo 03, 04, or 07. VFDC didn't expand as a result of that, again, like Hyunster is saying. There's very little reason to put all the events together even now, but I have no real problem with it. I don't expect new players to show up as a result of these events being under one roof though.