How can i improve beyond defender?

Im stuck at defender/barbarian playing jacky bryant.

I can win against,warriors,sentinels,guardians,when im focused,and sometimes i lose against hunters(2 out of 10).

I dodge,i know all combos,i know framerates fairly well.

But how can i take myself to the next level,constantly beating defenders and sentinels. I win maybe 40% of the time.

Or is the progression just slower when you reach a certain level of skill?

 

Its the same with other online games. IM always at the top 10%,not the best, but between the best and good.

How come,certain people always become top 1% whatever online game they put effort into. I also now somepeople,always remain top 30% and never excell at any games. Is it genes?

 

No it's effort. Few folks are going to say it, but it takes a lot of work to be the top in anything, just like in real world stuff. It's cool to underplay how much time an effort folks put into being the best, but there is a huge investment of time. All you need to do is put in the time, and hone in on your weaknesses.

Once you've been top in one fighting game, you start to understand what you need to look for to play at high level in a given game.

 

I think Bobby Fischer once said that what separated talented chess players from other players is motivation. The best talent is to have a motivation like nobody else. Beyond any chess "genius" is thousand and thousand of hours of practice. I guess the same mentality applies to other fields besides chess as well.

You can learn combos and frames fairly quick, but beyond that is the meta game wich takes much longer to master (or be really good at). What it comes down to is not necessarily your combos, but rather how well you adjust to your opponent and outplay him. That surely takes longer to learn and might transfer better for players who have developed those (or similar) traits on other games/activities beforehand.

 

MOre like effort and overall knowledge of game elements.

Just to give you IRL example: I have friend who is awesome in terms of technical output. He can consistently pull out the most dificult juggles and techniques with ease.
But... Overall, he sucks. He do not understand what yomi is. Not at all. In every given situation, he goes for the most optimal solution. 100 % of times.
In technical terms, he can be easily compared to the best players of the world. In gameplay terms, he is BAD.

And it is like this with many (most) not-best players. The fighting games have many aspects, but most people concentrate on some more that on the others; mostly because they believe that some of them are simply more important. But to be the best, you must excell in every single aspect of the game.

My experience is that I got demoted 3-4 times on each group I get into before I get good enough to stay there; and then it takes about 50-100 games to be good enough to promotoe to next group (group, not rank).

Basically from what I saw / experienced, every group till now (I am warrior ATM) have different "qualities" and "styles". Next groupe means more advanced technics and styles. You need to identify them, adapt them and start using them in order to really progress into next group.
And learning more and more advanced techniques will take you more and more time, usually

My 5 cents

 

don't try to be the best,but just try to be the best you can be. and don't get to focused on ranking up because sometimes it will become more like a job than having fun.

The best players in any game enjoy the game and have fun even if they lose.

 

Not exactly. When a good player losses they get hungry and train harder for the next time so they can win. Nobody likes to lose (except masterpo), but it's necessary in order to lvl up. If you're always winning, things do get boring, so the real threat of a loss does excite a good player.

 

what i meant was that the best players have a certain love of the game. people really do underestimate the power of having fun while playing.

 

100% agreeing with this. I was in the same boat as you OP, last week I bounced back and forth between barbarian and defender about 4 times before making sentinel yesterday. I just had to keep at it and adjust to the lack of massive whiffs, random lei fei stance dancing and 2P shenanigans that come with that first named tier group. Just keep at it and adapt, and eventually you'll secure a spot in the next group and start advancing up.

 

This meta game topic is really interesting,and im sure it's true,but the topic is seldom covered. I would love an article or a post that elaborated on it,because im sure that the meta game is what differ the best from the second best.

My gues is that the beta game is rather something that you are born with,and that everyone cant get despite putting in the hours. That may explain why some people remain hunte despite having 5000p.

 

The timing,reading your opponent,reading the situation are qualities that are rader hard to learn,and may get better over time with training,but im sure some people arn born better players,because they are better at meta. I think your friend is a bad player, who lack this meta ability

Thanks for your overall lenghty informative post,so i should expect an uphill struggle rather than skyrocketing upwards with the ranks..

 

Yes, like what everyone previously sad, it is a combination of a lot of elements. The most important, I feel, is understanding the player. Reading them and figuring out their patterns are the most crucial aspect of the game. Then it comes down to familiarizing yourself with the other characters to understand their combos and when to avoid them and what you can punish and then learning how to punish properly.

The hardest thing is being able to read a character. You can learn easily how to do combos and when to punish, but understanding how a player works and how they think is the most difficult. It is like a rock paper scissors game almost and takes a lot of time to really wrap your brain around.

 

@Superspacehero: I'm catching a drift of your question going toward the idea of you'll never be as good at a top player because of a biological reason. They're just inhrerently better at this and you'll never be as good because they were born with the gift and you weren't.

This is a load of bollox, and is a cop out for not wanting to keep training harder. If you put the time in you'll be able to catch up to any of the people you think were just born with it. Everyone is born with potential, but that's all it is, potential. The person has to actualize their given abilities in order to make a reality what was already in them to begin with.

You are the crafter of your future. There is nothing that someone else does better than you that you can not achieve yourself if you put the time and effort required. The only limiting factor is your own mindset and attitude that is brought to the table. Dare to be more than what you think is capable by your biology. There is much more to you than a series of genes. You can turn on and off genes with the right environment to cultivate them.

 

Some good advice in here, personally I don't see a correlation between skill at the game and your online rank. Might be better to stop worrying about chasing ranks and just put some effort into learning the game

 

Use the guard button and you'll be top 0.3%

 

I wish I could like this post.

 

I think the concept of "metagame" is just a fancy word for broken rhytm. Some pussy Akiras scared me at first with just a few strats since their zoning and reads were good. Many online players i see seem to know stuff but are a bit stuck with moves they think they should "use". Being stuck with any technique, however desirable, can become a disease when one's mind is obsessed with it. Bruce Lee thought similarly and I feel new distinctive evade/attack/throw mechanics emphasize this concept quite well. The game seems so ingrained with yomi that each choice reflects how well you adapt to the consequences of your own choices. Getting over the love for personal fav strats and how to react when opponent breaks them apart one after another is the moment when we either learn, want to forget, or get overwhelmed.

The reactions and execution stuff is still there though, when I get pwned by really competent players (ie Bilal, Manjimaru, Rodnutz) it's easy to blame slow hands too. But altogether, I think this new yomi stuff has made the game more open to slower "planner" players like myself.

My "tactic" to get better is to change pants often enough. I feel the need to try characters esp afte getting owned by them. I still kinda "main" a few ones, but try to play as many as possible for fun/learn factor. Also, ppl seem to dig if I change to mirror if I lose and maybe show some tricks. Everyone has their playing style, I prefer Shang Tsung kungfu.

PS: I realllly dig failed evade 33/66 cancels, they make the game feel so fucking fluid it hardly seems VF anymore. In a good way.

 

Wow. Thank you for posting this tricky. It hit a nerve and inspired my 2nd post of about 2 years.
Tricky is right. Absolutely right. Once upon a time i was hellbent on reaching the highest lvl of play. I played at least 3 hours a day (maybe 8 on wkends). I studiously studied frames and weaknesses of other characters. I became dominate. The 1 percent --denkai, LuckyGT, badseed, cozby<--i hate giving him credit because he became a total dick--could still beat me. The first thing u have to do is totally devote urself to vf. It's a tall task, or a small task, given your life. I'm not particularly proud of the 100's of hours i spent in the dojo stepping. So just know, tricky is right. You have to be committed to vf in a way that oversteps rationally and reaches 'labor of love' to be the best.

Thanks tricky.

P.S. SDSoverfiend, i beat your ass and left you crying. Remember my 7 game winstreak and i ran. Then u mssged me so i came back and beat u 15 in a row!! GO DRAMA.

P.S.S. SDS took his revenge on me, killing me over 3 months haha

 

Find a player that is great. It doesn't need to be a player that uses your character. Talk to them via PM's here or on PSN/Xlive. Ask them to play you and help you by simply critiquing your gameplay.

It improved my game exponentially. I still do it from time to time. Everything else people are saying here is good info and practice does make perfect. But get a coach and watch some real change happen.

 

Yeah mustve destroyed me with Lei fei and lag.. I remember this guy and shun giving me all the trouble. I stopped complaining and figured out how deal with this. All lei's gave me trouble badly. These matches was around 2008 I believe lmao!! I never forgot that ass whooping... It motivated me to get better