IMO Virtua Fighter is KING

IMO

DOA is nothing but an excuse to have the most unrealistic gameplay, physics, and just a whole lot of eyecandy, nothing more. It does have brainless button smashing (oh wait thats a strategy).

Tekken is the same thing, just minus the polygon power. Tekken is a wack reject imitation in many ways to virtua fighter, wait, what 3d fighter isn't? Tekken, DOA, and the others are games where CG cinemas and ridiculous japanese anime dramas are cut into each fight ...

Umm i just want to get to the fighting, I don't want to hear "epsilon this", "you're my sister" that. IMO a 3d game should have a story, but nowadays it seems like DOA and Tekken are the MK's of the 3d gen.

Now VF does have a story, but its not shoved in your face, with nicely rendered CG, with this drama, and once you start the game the graphics are not even like that.

remember toshinden ?? *yuck*

thank goodness for soul calibur
Now soul Calibur is something else,At least they have weapons that somewhat explain the flashes of light that come from each hit. SC is much more of a 3dfighter then tekken and DOA will ever be. Excellent conversion to the sega dramcast!

Why can't PS2 do any exceptional conversions?? Is the PS2 just a golified PS1 with a DVD player? IMO, i think it is, the latest Final fantasy was horrid! what kind of poly count was used? why is the PS2 still stuggling with those gittery polygons?? The sega saturn got rid of that years ago.

I guess i should stop the dogging of the PS2 and save it for another post.

 

One thing you have to understand is that VF would be the same even if it looked like shit. The reason VF is so cool is the mindgames involved while you play. Its like a game of chess. Chess looks like crap but its probably one the hardest and most complicated, yet most rewarding games on the planet. Its pure strategy and VF is like it in some ways. VF is fighting game chess, while tekken and DOA are checkers.

 

Agree.. chess with control and awesome stlye.

 

On the other hand it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying without SOME graphic or aural feedback. I was hearing this same topic the other day on irc - can anyone really say the game would be as satisfying with atari graphics?

I'm glad sega puts so much time and effort into visuals and sound, even if they never seem to be sufficient to cause a huge following in US arcades.

 

Yay........

 

a little off topic, anyone know when SC2 is coming out for ps2?

 

couldn't the same things be said about vf4 if you do not play it indepth? I play doa3, and it holds up pretty well to vf4, some aspects of doa3 gameplay outshines some of the things present in vf4.

 

Of course virtua fighter is king...or of course most of us who went about finding and following (not to mention running) this site think so. And while I don't want to go so far as to say Tekken and DOA3 are crap
(what's so special about ruling over crap anyway?) I think it's clear that in terms of depth, control and gameplay the namco and tecmo fighters are significantly outclassed...graphics and sound (& story for that matter) are IMO issues of taste, especially when we're talking about software giants & millions of polygons.

also...as deep as vf is, in absolute terms it is not even in the same room as chess. The basic rules and parameters of chess haven't changed since the 15th century (y'know, I could be wrong & it's the 17th) and in that time billions of people have pushed a pawn. When you further consider that there are individuals with chess libraries containing 50,000 titles & chess databases with over 3 million master games (top 1% of 1%) and that grandmasters (the top 1% of that last 1%) STILL get devastating opening novelties sprung on them within the first 7 moves (14 half moves), it becomes clear that chess is basically bottomless. Of course, in chess someone gets to go first so with respect to "fairness" it could be said that vf is more fair. I'm not trying to compare the two's objective merits or anything, just trying to indicate that chess is a few orders of magnitude more complex than vf, which rules regardless. Finally, get some henessy, a strong opponent & some ebony/boxwood pieces with a shiny maple table and then say chess looks like crap. Ciao.

 

"Of course virtua fighter is king...or of course most of us who went about finding and following (not to mention running) this site think so."-sanjuro-

of course you will think that way, since you are on a vf4 site. I do agree vf4 is the king in the depth department, but in everything else, it has alot of competition that will be willing to fight for that crown.

"And while I don't want to go so far as to say Tekken and DOA3 are crap
(what's so special about ruling over crap anyway?) I think it's clear that in terms of depth, control and gameplay the namco and tecmo fighters are significantly outclassed"-sanjuro-

depth, I would say yes, but controls, and gameplay I would say no. most of you dont play doa3 indepth to realy be able to comment on its gameplay. its controls are equal to those of vf4, and deeper gameplay does not mean a better played game.

I would like to know how vf4 controls are better than doa3's? how is vf4 gameplay better as well?

 

Jeeeezus, another misguided DOA fan

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I would like to know how vf4 controls are better than doa3's? how is vf4 gameplay better as well?

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One word....<font color="yellow"> Reversals </font color>. VF4 uses them appropriately, DOA doesn't. In VF4 if you attempt a reversal, you must enter the appropriate reversal command to match the level of attack. There's no universal command (like in DOA). Also, not every character has reversals, and if you're fortunate enough to sucessfully perform one, it doesn't take 1/3 the opponent's lifebar. It's called balance.....look into it.

 

To DRE's comments I would add that even when you noticibly whiff a reversal in DOA there is still a BIG window where the reversal will land on subsequent opponent attacks...I've done this and had this done to me playing DOA many, many times. All of this basically means that there's no such thing as initiative (hey, the necessary element for continued attack in chess as well!) in DOA. It goes without saying that in vf when you whiff a reversal, hitting the deck with a much smaller lifebar is a significant possibility.

Also, the characters in DOA tend to be masher friendly (no problem, just press the reversal button and down or not on the directional pad & presto!) and generally the way your thumb goes over the buttons for one character is the way your thumb goes over the buttons for the others.

But hey, Hyate, I'm sure there's enough time in your day and love in your heart to play and enjoy both games...I'm just sure you'll find after a little while (and maybe after some friends get hip) that vf is big-time at the top of the heap. Enjoy.

 

DOA has a lot more emphasis on reversals than VF, but VF has a lot more emphasis on throws. IIRC in DOA throws are basically anti-reversal moves, since there's so much of an incentive to do a reversal (30 frames of hit detection and almost instant startup, more than any other fighter out there)... it doesn't create huge balance problems, it just means a lot less actual attack/counterattack goes on.

 

--30 frames of hit detection and almost instant startup, more than any other fighter out there)... it doesn't create huge balance problems, it just means a lot less actual attack/counterattack goes on--

Well, you could argue that since every character uses the same fruity method of winning, yeah, it's balanced ... any one character can beat the others using the same boring, cheeseball techniques

Seriously, as trolly as that sounds, your description is a very accurate way of describing what's wrong with the game. The flow of the game is just dull as hell - because everything is so simplified and so powerful, it boils down to rock-paper-scissors. I hate to use that phrase but I bet if you search gaming forums for it, you'll find a ton of comparisons to the DOA series. It's like the whole fighting system is based on one theme... .reversals... and everything else is just in place to foil them. Throw beats reversal, low attack foils mid/high reversals, low reversal foils low attack, etc. It's got all the features of VF but none of the mindgames.

VF is not really centered around one thing. Throws are strong, interrupts are strong, and even simple pokes with high punch, low punch, and elbows are strong for the flowcharts they set up. You are encouraged to use all three types of attack on offense, and dodging and guarding and reverse CD on defense.

Anyway, I wish I didn't get sucked into this thread, maybe I'll just copy and paste old posts instead of debating anything =p

 

"One word.... Reversals . VF4 uses them appropriately, DOA doesn't. In VF4 if you attempt a reversal, you must enter the appropriate reversal command to match the level of attack. There's no universal command (like in DOA). Also, not every character has reversals, and if you're fortunate enough to sucessfully perform one, it doesn't take 1/3 the opponent's lifebar. It's called balance.....look into it. "-dre-

where did you get your info from, doa3 do have appropriate reversals, you have H, M,& L, and it must correspond with the attack level. and the reversals have been tone down so I suggest you get updated.

"To DRE's comments I would add that even when you noticibly whiff a reversal in DOA there is still a BIG window where the reversal will land on subsequent opponent attacks...I've done this and had this done to me playing DOA many, many times. All of this basically means that there's no such thing as initiative (hey, the necessary element for continued attack in chess as well!) in DOA. It goes without saying that in vf when you whiff a reversal, hitting the deck with a much smaller lifebar is a significant possibility"-sanjuro-


what you just described was being lazy and not taking into consideration the frames of animation for the hold. secound, if you was not just button mashing,you could have used that long frame lengh to high counter throw him.

"Also, the characters in DOA tend to be masher friendly (no problem, just press the reversal button and down or not on the directional pad & presto!) and generally the way your thumb goes over the buttons for one character is the way your thumb goes over the buttons for the others."-sanjuro-

lol, the easiest way to stop a button masher is to either reverse him or(when against a reversal masher), you throw them.

"since there's so much of an incentive to do a reversal (30 frames of hit detection and almost instant startup, more than any other fighter out there)... it doesn't create huge balance problems, it just means a lot less actual attack/counterattack goes on."-Robyrt-

what you said shows you do not play doa3. you could attack someone who is trying to reverse you, you could either throw them, hit them on another hit level, or time the frame of animation just right to hit them before or after they did the reverse attempt.

"Well, you could argue that since every character uses the same fruity method of winning, yeah, it's balanced ... any one character can beat the others using the same boring, cheeseball techniques /versus/images/icons/smile.gif"

LMAO, you realy dont know anything about doa3. the reversal ability for everyone makes it much harder for you to continue doing the same moves over and over..

"the whole fighting system is based on one theme... .reversals... and everything else is just in place to foil them. Throw beats reversal, low attack foils mid/high reversals, low reversal foils low attack, etc. It's got all the features of VF but none of the mindgames."-CreeD -

alot of the mind games come in when you play. since almost everything can be countered in doa3, you need to have alot of mix ups while playing doa3, more so than in vf4.

"VF is not really centered around one thing. Throws are strong, interrupts are strong, and even simple pokes with high punch, low punch, and elbows are strong for the flowcharts they set up. You are encouraged to use all three types of attack on offense, and dodging and guarding and reverse CD on defense. "-CreeD -

this is where you are misguided, everything is not centered around reversals, team ninja decided to make the reversals as important as the throws and the strikes.because of the reversals, you have to be more aware of your strike level than in anyother game.
repetence and predictability is dangerous when playing doa3.

if you keep throwing out reversals, Im going to throw you. if you throw to much I will counter you with an attack if you attack to much I will reverse you.
everything is checked and balanced right? not just yet.. you have the unblockable attacks, the HR moves, the gaurd stuns. this is where the free step dodge comes in. no body even mentioned the environment. you have to worry about the environment just as much as your opponent. the depth thats in doa3's environment surpasses those in all the other fighters. not to mention, that certain parts of the environment effects your move properties. you also have to be aware of launching attacks, ACA attacks, ....etc..

from the way all of you describe the game, it shows alot of you dont know how to play doa3.

 

Actually..
I play both games.

VF to me is the better game.
More attacking options..More rewarding defensive options, better evade system...fairer reversal system...more balance between characters etc etc

I suppose..the best way to judge it is by sales n arcade earnings...consumers do vote with wallets after all.

BUT

At the end of the day....it's an issue of personal preferences...discussions such as ' this game dun have this = lame....etc etc etc' are predominantly a waste of time IMO.

I still have alot of fun playing DOA3. At high lvl play..there are alot of mind battles going on~

If there's one thing I really have to bitch abt DOA3...lack of costumes this time haha!

If anything counts, DOA2 is the BETTER game.

 

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where did you get your info from, doa3 do have appropriate reversals, you have H, M,& L, and it must correspond with the attack level. and the reversals have been tone down so I suggest you get updated.


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Whatever the case may be, the reversal window is still too long. "Team Ninja" has yet to figure out that this makes the game very boring and repetitive. In VF, the timing of your reversal must be very precise. Several strings in the game can be delayed to prevent reversal-happy opponents from succeeding and in many cases, a reversal is NOT the best option. If you try to reverse, I will delay my string and MC you, or throw you. If your character's name isn't Aoi, I'll destroy your reversal with a crescent. How's that for depth?

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the depth thats in doa3's environment surpasses those in all the other fighters.

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That's the only area DOA excels in.

 

"Whatever the case may be, the reversal window is still too long. "Team Ninja" has yet to figure out that this makes the game very boring and repetitive. In VF, the timing of your reversal must be very precise. Several strings in the game can be delayed to prevent reversal-happy opponents from succeeding and in many cases, a reversal is NOT the best option. If you try to reverse, I will delay my string and MC you, or throw you. If your character's name isn't Aoi, I'll destroy your reversal with a crescent. How's that for depth? "
-dre-

um, go play doa3 again, you can delay practically every string. you could also free cancel to make strings that are not posible(making more complex strings).the posibilities from the reversal being very long adds a total different gameplay structure than vf4, reversals in doa3 is a blessing and a curse, its up to you to find its weakness. you could kind of buffer reversals into your strings.you could also stop reversals with a well timed attack, there are characters who have advanced reversals, advanced ss,..etc... trust me, once you play doa3 at higher levels, you would see how its up there with vf4.

I do agree that vf4 have more options (in certain areas)than doa3, Im not disagreeing, but once you add the environment to the equation it puts doa3 on a closer level to vf4.

 

"Actually..
I play both games.

VF to me is the better game.
More attacking options..More rewarding defensive options, better evade system...fairer reversal system...more balance between characters etc etc"-SummErs-

I dont agree, everything in doa3 is more balanced. every action has an equal counter action.
as for the evade system, I hope you know you can free step dodge, free step blocking(moving blocks).
vf4 has fair reversal system because you only have a few frames to reverse, and goes along with the gameplay of VF4. doa3 reversals are fair because it works well in the gameplay system of doa3. I dont want to hear how its not fair. if you was playing doa3, not doa3 being played as vf4 than you would have no complaints.
I could easily say the throw escape system(in vf4) is not fair because a throw should be guarenteed..etc..etc..but im not because it works well with vf4's set up.

 

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the posibilities from the reversal being very long adds a total different gameplay structure than vf4

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This is exactly what's wrong with DOA3. It makes the reversal timing practically foolproof. In VF4, you have very little margin for error. The fact that so much emphasis is put on one particular technique is exactly what makes VF players (such as myself) look down their noses at DOA3.

While I must admit that the environments in DOA3 are amazing, falling off a 50 foot cliff is nothing more than eye candy to distract you from major gameplay flaws. I'll settle for quality over quantity every time.

 

"This is exactly what's wrong with DOA3. It makes the reversal timing practically foolproof. In VF4, you have very little margin for error. The fact that so much emphasis is put on one particular technique is exactly what makes VF players (such as myself) look down their noses at DOA3."-dre-

there is a big margin of era when doing a reversal in doa3. your problem is not having very good timing of your moves, and not knowing how to play the game. once someone throws out a reversal in doa3, the reversal window is long enough for you to get an easy counter throw. you can easily delay your attacks, your opponent pulls out a reversal, free cancel and do an attack on a different height level or just free cancel in a throw. or you could free step around them, get a critical hit(more damage) launcher attack and do a juggle.

reversals are not the main emphasis in doa3. mixups are. if you play like a scrub , thats the only type of game you will get. if you realy played doa3, you would know every single throw, attack, reversal, free step, environmental factor are all equally focused upon.

"While I must admit that the environments in DOA3 are amazing, falling off a 50 foot cliff is nothing more than eye candy to distract you from major gameplay flaws."-dre-

ummmmm....you realy dont know anything about doa3 do you..I can see why the environmental issue will go over your head ,since environmental awareness in vf4 is not as prominent as it is in doa3.
let me break it down for you....fighting in an area with trees, ice pillars, stone pillars, walls, danger zones(explosive walls), multi-tiered platforms, slippery surfaces and the undulated terrain, heightens environmental awarness. unlike vf4 where you fight on a basic (flat) square ring with maybe a wall,in doa3 you have to think about how all those formentioned factors are going to help you win the match. you have to find strategies to get environmental damage inflicted upon your opponent, while your opponent have to think of counter strategies for your assault.
this adds depth thats not even present in vf4. this is one of the main reasons why doa3 plays drastically different than vf4. so when you get knocked off a 50 ft cliff, not only do you lose a whole lot of energy, it showed that your opponent had a better strategy and you must come up with a better counter strategy or you will eat some more dirt. this is not just eye candy, this is a very well, thought out gameplay mechanic that adds depth.

"I'll settle for quality over quantity every time."-dre-

for someone who dont even know how to play doa3(the correct way, not in the way of vf4 or anyother fighter), you sure have some nerve to talk about quality over quantity,when you dont even know the concepts of doa3.most of your problems(including most vf4 players), you think every fighter must fit into the mold of vf4. alot of you state for ex:
1) the reversals in VF4 are better because it has less frames to execute.
2) the game is focused upon reversals, while VF4 uses a mixture of throws, attacks and SS.
3) the reversals are less punishable.
4)one technique rules the whole game
5) its a vf4 ripoff...etc..etc..
if its not like vf4 than its bad or broken, or it has stuff that vf4 dont have but its pure eyecandy. than some of you have the nerve to actualy stick your noses up at doa3, when you have no clue on how to play it. hardcore doa3 players and I have been delving deeper in to doa3, we found a whole slew of gameplay options that vf4 does not have (or have given more viable option for). we came to the conclusion that doa3 holds more depth than the fighting game community has given it. at this point in time, I am uploading some videos of how doa3 can(should) be played, and Im also in the process of creating a faq.

I am here stating that if you are looking for the samethings that are in vf4 to be in doa3, than you will be very dissappointed. if you look at what doa3 has to offer, you will see that its depth is not (exactly) in the same departments as vf4, but its depth is comparable once you stop looking for the vf4 in doa3.