Is it worth it to use escapable combos and throws?

I'm new to VF and mostly play online were people rarely throw escape or tech roll (not sure thats the right term). Right now most of my favorite Aoi combos can be tech rolled out of.

Example: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif > (dash in) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

The problem:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (stagger can be escaped) > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (can tech roll) > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (can tech roll) > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (can tech roll) >/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

81/82 damage lands on all weights

Not sure were I gain/lose that 1 point of damage,if they fail to tech after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif most people won't get out of it .As long as i don't mess up the timing the combo lands 80% of the time. If training mode let me record I could test how easy it is to escape.I also always go for her half circle grabs unless I am going for a ring out.So are combos like this and multiple part grabs worth it in Aoi.

 

My first advice would be to go read the black book combo post on this page. It's full of great combos that aren't possible to break like the one you stated, some with some pretty impressive damage.

That said, there's nothing wrong with punishing people for failing to tech roll, as long you make sure you know the "real" combos too, for when you play actual opponents. That said, the combo you stated is pretty ridiculously easy to break. The down throw in particular, I would avoid doing after a long string like that, since I believe they don't even need to tech roll to get up before it lands, just mash guard really fast.

As for the half circle throws... 270s do more damage, and diagonal inputs are generally harder to evade. Plus, you only have to land one throw rather than three in a row. I wouldn't really bother with them.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

I understand what your saying about using safer options. So I just got done trying a lot of the black book combo. A lot of them do good damage but it's going to take forever for me to remember them off the top of my head.Until i get all of them down it will be risk vs memory.

When it comes to throws why does every 1 say 270's do more than half circles.If you mean 270's are a safer form of damage than yes. For max damage both half circles beat there counter parts.

half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif (20)> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (40)> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (66)Total damage

half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif (20)> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (55)

270 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif (40) > half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (60) total damage

For the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif starting grabs yes 270 is clearly more effective than risking a break for 6 damage. The alternates to half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif are even to weak to mention.

half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif (30)> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (50) > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (76) total damage

half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif (30)> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (65)

270 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif (57)

On on the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif grabs I don't think I'll stop going half circle it just does to much damage on both options to ignore.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

Regarding the black book combos... I would say just learn the universal options. As it is, it's hard enough to ingrain those into muscle memory. The character specific ones aren't worth it all until you've mastered the core gameplay... evading/throw escaping, and all that good stuff. It's super high level information.

I believe that the reasoning is that it's impossible to tech roll out of a 270 throw (or df, df throw). Don't quote me on that, I haven't tested... but that makes it 60 from the throw, plus 20 from heavy down attack, for a guaranteed 80 damage, which beats the best half circular.

Positioning can be pretty important too. For example f, b throw, and db throw both do far less damage than any of these other options, but they're probably the best if you get stuck with your back to a wall. I can't tell you how many matches I've lost cause I used that stupid ground throw that causes you to step over your opponents body, and then I couldn't dash away.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

Well it diffidently takes more effort to learn VF characters than DOA's . Yep sometimes the best throw isn't the most damaging gotton a few wins from /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif ring outs. Looked through the Aoi forums here the only guaranteed move after a grab i found was in the "COMMUNITY PROJECT: Aoi Guide". A person says after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif a ground grab is guaranteed (assuming they don't brake it).

I am assuming that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif on a downed opponent is what you meant by a heavy attack. I tried to test the tech roll thing the best I could in sparring. The results are interesting I couldn't land /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif on any form of 270 or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif but the ground throw lands with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. With both half circle throws using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif as the second part /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif lands just as the computer finished there side roll before it could block or use a getup kick. The computer could not back roll after half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif grab for some reason. The only way to evade /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif was to use a mid getup kick with no roll or back roll.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

Interesting. Personally, I tend to use the b,f throw, and the f,b throw the most. But that's just because I don't have a stick yet, and 270s are too inconsistent on a pad. So, I never had a need to test followups to those throws.

It might just also be that the 3-part throw involves two 50/50 chances to escape in the middle. Therefore, law of averages says you won't hit the third part most of the time, and therefore, on average, it could do less than the others. Maybe someone else who knows more than me will respond at some point.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

Using a heavy pounce (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif) after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif works when you condition your opponent to attempt a ground throw break.

It's a 50/50 guessing game for them with the ground throw as they are only allowed to escape one direction on the ground.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

I don't remember the guaranteed follow-ups to some but I believe the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif has a free /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif at the end.

After a successful /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, you have a 50/50 light or heavy down attack. Light if they try to row back and heavy if they try to row to the side.

Also, Im pretty sure /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, followed by a guaranteed /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is the most damage you can do from a single throw as Aoi, especially since it is followed by a 50/50 down attack. This will be devastating to newbies. Its big swing style damage but its not a catch throw.

The reason why the multi throw is not used at higher levels of play is because it can be escaped in multiple places. Once you see whats coming, you're gonna try to escape. The 270's are more reliable.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

I can second that. This has been the case since Virtua Fighter 3.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

I was really confused by Aoi's half circle throws until just recently (Just picked her up yesterday). But now I still have a question. You can only do all three parts if you end the second command with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif correct? Otherwise if you do say, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, the string ends there?

Also, regarding the throw breaks in this multi throw. Is the opponent able to buffer both options or is it like ground throws where they only get one shot, creating a 50/50?

Btw, Aoi is fun as hell. I was always intimmidated by her move list when I first began playing, but now that I have more experience under my belt, she doesn't seem nearly as bad as I once thought. Execution wise she's rather friendly, her difficulty comes (I feel) from conditioning and reading your opponent (which is the fun part haha).

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

Nevermind... this was wrong;;

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

I think I've found all of Aoi's grabs with guaranteed follow ups with help from this forum. I went through all of her throws and only the 4 throws at the bottom have guaranteed follow ups. They can all be finished with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. The 3 part throws only the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif version has a guaranteed follow ups. For the 270 throws rolling up or down will evade down attacks and grabs.
Fun note half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif at the end does 101 damage /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

half circle /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

PS
Any 1 know how many frames it takes for a throw to land and if it changes depending on the throw.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

I could be wrong as I play as Aoi more than play against Aoi but I believe that you can use multiple throw escapes and avoid the damage completely after the first command. I know my friend seems to escape it all the time so I very rarely use it.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

In online mode I sometimes really have problems pulling off the ground throw after this one, even though there is no lag in the match at all. Can it be that there are specific situations, or techniques where you can really evade the ground throw (speaking of the Xbox 360 Version C)? Knowledgeable foes were able to stand up before I could land the ground throw; same situation in Dojo mode: half of the time the AI was able to evade it by tech rolling (on highest recovery setting, etc.). Or am I just damn slow?!

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

Too slow, I can pretty much pull it off 99% of the time.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

I dont think you can in middle of the multithrow. And Aoi still has two options. You can always escape the latter two parts of the 3-part throw with just one command though. Then Aoi needs to opt for the 2-part throw that does less damage.

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

The third part of 3-part throw still has two options, 28 or 82, so the opponent still would need two commands to escape, assuming multiple escapes are possible there. And using the follow ups that end at the 2nd part are escaped the exact same as follow ups that lead to the 3rd part (they're all up or down). So... what are you trying to say?

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

You can always escape the 3-part multithrow at the second part by /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. If you do the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif continuation as the second part, it cannot be continued to a 3rd part, instead the throw ends there.

She DOES have two options as second part, but only one of them leads to 3rd part.

The first part of the multithrow should be sufficient cue to do a throw escape, yes-no?

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

I thought that her multi throw was a 50/50 and you could only escape one of them

 

Re: Is it worth it to use escapable combos and thr

Nevermind, you were right;;