Lion's Top 10 Moves

Hi,


I've played VF3 and VF4 somewhat, but I'm reintroducing myself to VF this VF5. I would just like to ask for some help in learing Lion all over again so I would like to ask what's your top 10 (or 20) moves that I should learn in playing Lion? Some comments would also be nice as to why that move should be used.

Thanks!

 

Never mind, I just found out the Lion Wiki, read it first then ask questions later.

Thanks!

 

I noticed this thread was empty so i'm posting my own top ten hoping it will liven up the Lion subforum:

jab
There's also b,f+p+k but there's just not enough space for everything in a top 10 list.
elbow
Same goes for f+k, it has a solid hitbox and gives nitaku on CH but i had to choose one.
low punch
Way more magic than vanilla low punch. Besides, lion's d+p is 13f.
floater
A 15f move with great range that beats throws and floats on normal hit for decent damage.
CH floater
Mid, safe, magic hitbox.
low
Fastest low attack with knockdown in the game. Useful for beating defensive techniques.
+ track stomach
Vs evades, also good range.
track back
Maybe the weakest move on this list but covers his back.
+ anti-low
Lion has a bunch of anti-low moves but i like this one: positive on block and gives a good float.
DM + wtf move
Safe, circular, special high, 30 damage (!), float on CH.

Notice i'm missing df+k and p+k. BorisOfWales practically lives off stepping > midkick He also uses the qcb+p sabaki well, i think the move is very good good but i can't pull difficult motions like that consistently

I use Lions sweeps more than i'd like to, specially if i guess wrong with his semicirculars a couple of times. I'd hardly recommend them though, i've lost more games by having them blocked than not.

I'm sure this lack of mid attacks is probably my greatest downfall with lion. What do you think? Don't be afraid to answer with your own top ten

 

in the top ten?? It's -44 on block!

I agree as it has the awesome mix up possibilities of either going into one of its many strings or being followed up immediately with which 12f punchers cannot beat and anyone else has to be very quick about.

I reckon is awesome, great from crouch can go into kanpo mix ups from it and is 0 on block.

Which is essential for his most damaging wall combos and is guarenteed after (which is +19 on NH). I'm gunna have to test whether this works when opp is not against wall as range is tight

DM Most definately, 77dmg in CH combo in closed stance (everyone bar heavies). Or a 76dmg combo in open (char specific, very tricky online) but 73dmg ones are easy (for exp , , ).

/ > +2 on block. Has evasive properties such as the ability to go under highs. Can go around low punches, I think Mack was saying this works at -5. I can't remember he's good with technical stuff like that. Plus it is +16 on CH meaning is guarenteed for a nice 80ish points of dmg.

Just because it has good dmg potential even if it is hard to land. Also crouch fuzziable on block.

or (same move can be performed from a buffered crouch dash). Bread and butter Lion, moves opponant closer to wall, out of the ring. It can take them damn nearly halfway across the ring. 66dmg combos avalible for everyone bar heavies. 70 in open for some of the smaller chars like pai/blaze.

Kinda slow, not great on block. Has dmg potential of 38(everyone) to 53(char specific). Has a deceptive animation so it often works for catching an opponant off guard. Also the long animation sort of works in it's advantage as it's often not clear when you should sidestep.

Great dmg potential. Not specifically a move (2 moves). The second is a knockdown and guarenteed if the first is a CH. With chars that have long legs there are stance specific combos availible with 74dmg a possibility in closed stance. Against chars with short legs the follow up does I think around 60 on CH.

> , catch throw and because of the many other moves than come out of TRSF it can be a real mind fuck to mix it up with this. Especially if you've been hitting them with mids so they freeze when they see the stance. Also great for oki.

That's my top ten

is also great and has surprising range.

Anything that leaves him back turned also has great mix up possibilities.

Erdraug I wouldn't know what your greatest downfall is with Lion seeing as your XBL subscription ran out and now we can't have the games we had scheduled

 

Let's try to have some games this saturday since we'll be logged in for the tourney anyway

As far as , ok, i admit, i didn't give this much thought, i tjust put the low attack that i have the most success with, i usually telegraph and manage to get raped for it, i guess i'm not using it as i should, i'll try improvise with it a bit more.

You're definetly right about TRSF, don't know about though, i mean if i want a move that (usually) beats both high and low punch, well, i've always thought that would be more than enough

BTW is not even on block, i supose you mean fuzzy safe, right?

 

Uh yeah that's exactly what I mean lol I could've sworn it was 0 on block but it's 0 on NH, -5 on block.

While I'm at it I got wrong also, it's -30 on block. I got it confused with a move I consider to be just as useless. Although admittedly is much harder to block I just reckon the risk out-weighs the reward.

 

And also is only guarenteed after when opponant is close to a wall as pushes them back a little.

 

What about ?

Despite it's linear and slow, it goes under highs and gives a stomach crumple on CH for 66 dmg and it's -6 on guard.

 

There's nothing wrong with it but lion already has which also beats highs (and more) and gives comparable if not bigger damage on CH.

 

Not the biggest fan of that move either in Vanilla. Lion has tons of moves that go under highs anyway. It's good to throw out every once and again because of the visual mix up.

But if it works for you good stuff

 

It's hard to do a Top 10 Moves. But I'll randomly list 10 moves I think are very important for Lion and also make him unique (at least in vanilla VF5, especially version C, maybe version B).

Note: sorry, I totally forgot the tags for command inputs and had trouble finding it in the current version of the faq.

* D, f+P
Lion's uppercut is still a big signature launcher with some "cheeze" properties that can bug a lot of people, winning situations that are not quite "standard."

* P,K
I know this is a boring entry, but aside from being the standard free attack you get when blocking some moves or when somebody whiffs--it leads to a basic mindgame setup with Lion's P,K,P being mixed with P,K, delayed P and other flowchart options.

* f+P
Another standard that gives Lion good options when used. The string followup is an easy option when you can recognize a stagger while giving you ring positioning and some damage. All that while still being a good solid elbow to be used properly like most other characters.

* d+K
I don't see many people use Lion's low kicks and I don't really blame them because he's screwed if it's blocked (that is, unless you get them thinking you'll do the second low kick--then they might just not do anything when they block the first one). The reason I put it in there though is because it beats special high attacks for a guaranteed knockdown with the followup K (or even an almost guaranteed flashy finish with K+G). As far as I know, it's the one low attack that beats special high. Of course, like most other characters you can simply just duck under a special high without attacking and punish it if possible (usually is).

* b+P
Super annoying poke because it slips under a lot of attacks and can stabilize the up-close exchange for you.

* P+K
I used to not be a fan of this move as I couldn't just spam it out like other pokes. However, it's become a more standard move for my Lion scoring combos off of either mistakes, excessive movement, or even being used in some simple exchanges. When it hits, you get a good combo (I followup with (F)P --> b,f+P+K --> various finishers including the lame db+K). Also, the range of this attack is deceptively good.

* b,b+K --> P+K combos
Still my favorite attack with Lion. There are the guaranteed situations, and then there are the zoned situations where you use the backdash and watch the opponent to see if you can hit him with the turn away kick. And then you combo with a lot of options (giving you either damage or ring position).

* b, df+P
Notorious for its abuse on beginners. And of course the f,f+KK combo finisher. But on the practical side, I use it to punish high attacks that are predicted (risky) or just read. And as a whiff punisher (though they gotta have a pretty big whiff). Online, it's a lag abuser but good players don't fall for it as much even then. You don't want to spam this move because it's just too easy to dodge and/or punish.

* df+P+K
The eye gouge is another move that's not used much but on hit it leads to hit-checkable combos. If you sense it hits, make P,K a reflex followup and then train yourself with the P,K mindgames. However, with experience you'll be able to know when you're going to get a Major Counter from df+P+K. When that happens, b,b+K combos are guaranteed.

* d+K+G
Lion's sweep is solid. Sucks to get blocked, but this attack adds or kind of just makes Lion's low attack repertoire annoying. Punish people that step too much, punish people who are not prepared for low options (because they do way too much anti mid/throw). I think it's a simple way to pull people back into the low block game.

There are a lot more attacks worth mentioning and the above are 10 almost randomly picked moves that I use in my Lion repertoire and some of the reasons I use them. Some honorable mentions would be:

* d+P (Lion's low Punch trades away a little bit of speed for a longer reach than just about any other low punch. And it's a good thing in Lion's zoning game. Lion already has a good possible followup with D,f+P uppercut--but he has some great options from simply backdashing and zoning the opponent after low punch pokes. And I still think sweep is a good option when used properly after a low punch.)

* b,f+P+K (I probably overuse this poke way too much, variety of mindgames with it too)

* u+P+K (an easy way to punish whiffs and staggers from range.)

* b+K (good special high that can be safe if used properly and can lead to some good delayed P followup mindgames. I use this attack more than I would like to admit, usually to decent results.)

* b,f+K (anti-low, which against a lot of people just means anti-low punch. Can also be thought of as a range punisher with combo finishers. This move is not in my Top 10, but it's a good move.)

* f+K+G (Very annoying ranged mid that can be safe when properly used. It doesn't lead to big damage though, but used properly it can buy time and even ring position. And it can punish from long range. Early on I would have considered it Top 10 worthy, but other moves just have more potential. Still a decent move in my book though.)


Spicy (flavorful) moves I love:

* b+P+K (I haven't seen any other Lion player use this move and I can't blame them--it's dangerous as hell--but it leads to Lion's biggest damage. You can only use this if you really can predict certain attacks coming from your opponent or they don't mind whiffing non-fast attacks. Therefore, don't expect to nail safe players with it unless you really know what you're doing. Pick your moments, but you'll do nearly half the lifebar if you nail this--I followup with b+K,P --> b,f+P+K,P,P if memory serves and it's nasty damage).

* DM P+K (I don't put this in the top 10, but it's another punisher that can work from range and it's special high too. But I love comboing off of this move.)

* d+P+K (There's the wall situations and there's also the random annoying low poke games you can play with this attack. It's a fun annoying move to do and you can even setup some small payoff back-turned mindgames with it. Just make sure to know whether your opponent can rape a back-turned opponent or not because that's important in your risk-reward assessment of mindgames).

* f+P+K+G (fun stance, can setup the annoying throw or even decent combos. I think it's really hard to use properly on players with a lot of experience against Lion and have tight play. Then again, that's kind of true with much of the "saucy" moves list.)

* uf+P (you should almost never use this move, but it's fun nailing someone who likes to do low attacks--like Lion players who abuse b,df+P. Only works on beginner and intermediate, you should get killed doing this against tight players. However, the sauciness comes from b,b+K combos that flow out of this crazy kamikaze attack.)

* P+K+G (parry. I love it, but there aren't many good reasons to use it except against very non-knockdown excessive punch pokers. Fun against some Brads and even Jacky players though.)

* u+K (Probably an old school thing, but I still like this move. However, the old schoolers don't fall for the followup K on block as much as some others. Still has some okizeme applications though.)

* db+P+K (not as annoying as it used to be when it guaranteed knockdown. But it's still annoying when used well, including last-hitting an opponent with it.)

* b,f+K+G (Other people have written about this move. I'm not as much of a fan as they are, but I definitely use the move and think it's better than it looks and you have options out of it. It's certainly saucy and you have a lot of fun flashy games from it. There are even fun okizeme tricks with this move ^_^)

-Chanchai

 

After playing a bit with Lion yesterday i stand by my inclusion of in his top ten. It doesn't really matter if it's -30 or -44 on block; Lion can't be punished for it any harder than he can be punished for his sweep. It's like blackjack - once you go over 21 you lose, no matter if you lose with a hand of 22 or 26. The only difference is that in VF5 you lose if you go over -20. I mean, what is my opponent going to do, knee me twice?

So AFAIC at the end of the day is still the fastest low that knocks down on normal hit in the game.

That said the problem with is that it can't be used from crouch. I end up doing low punch > sweep a lot So i guess the spot could be shared.

 

I use this move a lot myself. Even in combos where it is less optimal

I use this move in zoning games a lot. I deal with the crouching issue by back dashing (zoning) into db+k