Oki setups

In this thread we could share all the oki setups we have found.

I'll start with mines (I'll update this post because I can put them all in a single time).

For the sake of orgaization I'll devide the setups in 4 different categories:

1) meaties unevadeable
2) wakeup kicks whiff punishment
3) wakeup kicks crushers
4) sheningans



MEATIES UNEVADEABLE

• From a ! ender (no wall) we can do several nice things.
  
  After a dragon kick ender as soon as we regain the ability to move/attack we have an advantage of 22 frames off an opponent Perfect Tech Roll (PTR) done on the first of the five possible frames.
  This is due to the fact that the opponent's hurtbox will start to reappear (the low part) 23 frames after we regain the ability to move/attack if he PTRs on the first frame.
  The mid part of the hurtbox, the one we are interested more, will start to reappear on the 24th frame.
  While if he PTRs on the last fifth frame its hurtbox will obviously reappear 27 frames later.
  Instead off a Perfect Quick Rise (PQR) the opponent hurtbox will reappear (according to the animation from the ground to stand) 13 frames after we regain the ability to move/attack if he PQRs on the first frame.
  BUT during a PQR the opponent can only block high/low until 32 frames are spent after we regain the ability to move/attack if he PQRs on the first frame.
  If he PQRs on the last fifth frame its hurtbox will start to reappear after 17 frames and will regain all his option (ARM/evade/attack/etc) after 36 frames.
  
  Due to this limitation from an unevadeable meaty point of view we need only to check out if the possible setup work on PTRs
  
  All this frame data has been calculated by myself with the dojo tools so there's room for human error (although I think they are pretty accurate).
  I have made this long introduction so everybody could have the information to understand why all the meaties I'll list work, which will be their limits and of course to find new stuff.
  
  From the dragon kick ender the most important meaty is .
  It's mid, 4 active frames, +1 on block (at least) and a launcher!
  Its startup is 22 frames so we can wait 2 more frames before inputting it (the mid part of the hurtbox starts to appear on the 24th frame) to avoid to waste too much of its 4 active frames.
  Unluckly there's no way reliable way to waste 2 frames and the best we can get is 1.
  So after a dragon kick ender (no wall splat) we'll input .
  The dash is there to waste 1 frame and the up direction to avoid 66K+G to come out.
  This way we covered 3 of the 5 frames in which the opponent can PTRs leaving out only the last 2 possible frames.
  Even if it's possible to do a late PTR and evade (and then punish) K+G it's really really tough.
  It's like a 2 frame link done in the middle of nowhere where there's no muscle memory helping out.
  
  Another way of landing it is to cover the last 4 frames of the possible PTRs leaving uncovered the first one but again there's no reliable way to waste 3 frames.
  However in my opinion it's better to left uncovered the last frame lenghtening the window before the opponent "2 frame link" making it more harder.
  
  This meaty it's really strong beacuse it force the opponent to block standing and at the same time give us an advantage depending on how late they PTRs (+1/+3) and if it's side turned (+4/+7).
  However if the PQR our advantage will be always +1 no matter how early or late they PQRed.
  
  An other important sapect of K+G is that on hit leads to a guaranteed dragon kick ender leaving the oppenent in the same exact situation!
  Moreover if K+G is blocked in addition to its frame advantage it gives a pushnack that allowing for some backdash -> whiff punish like 44 > K+G which if it landes allow us for a 46K+GK!K ender putting them again in the same spot!
  
  
  An other unevadeable after a dragon kick ender is .
  Starts in 22 frames and has 2 active frames.
  The best way to land it is to center those 2 active frames in the middle of the 5 possible PTRs leaving two separte "1 frame link" and a "2 frames link" for the opponent to PTRs avoiding/evading it.
  To waste 2-3 frames we can do .
  If done at the fastest wasy possible it'll waste only one frame but due to the presence of a second directional input for the move it's more likely that we'll waste at least an other frame.
  If you are superfast godlike try to slowdown a bit and it will work.
  
  It's defenetly not as good as K+G being also punishable on block but against an opponent with his back on the wall it will give us a struggle from wich a BT K gives a full wall splat combo.
  
  
  For putting your opponent side turned you can use .
  It's a 21 frames mid with 2 active frames so to land it the best way is to waste 3-4 frames by doing .
  
  
  There's also the ! hit/guard throw.
  It starts in 24 frames and has 3 active frames so we don't need anything fancy to time it.
  Keep in mind that it can be duck and than whiff punished.
  
  
  You can use a lot of other faster moves delayed the right amount of frames to get other unevadeables (the one you'll probabily land somtimes is hit confirmable in its followup).
  
  But everything will start from the K+G setup: after landing a few K+G juggle maybe they'll understand that's unevadeable and then they'll stand guarding allowing you for the classical nitaku (mid-throw) or letting you setup some nice sheningans (more later)

EDIT
After some study on the hurtbox off a just ukemi I was able to refine my work a little more

 

I like this concept. I also love that for once being a lightweight doesn't suck so bad. Good stuff Man.

 

Nice job Myke (I really hate testing stuff on all the cast)
Just took a quick look and if you substitute with the ground attack will not whiff on Ei, El ad Aoi.
Plus being PKG 1 frame faster than P you'll gain 1 frame of advantage making -5 on block becoming fuzzy guardable.

This OS is a nice tool (the ground kick deals 12 points instead of a not scaled one 13 damage) and you gain the best if the opponent is near the wall because you can get a stagger if 3K makes the opponent hit the wall or in case of a side hit you can add a guaranteed P or PK (depending on the distance from the wall) to get a wall stagger.

Keep in mind that from the 3PK knockdown there's a better meaty (no option select tho).
In the next days I'll try to post part 2 of mine meaty setups.

An other teaser: don't worry that much for all those sleeping beauties, there are setups for them too (after meaties) plus a good amount of sheningans, some of which lead to some monster damage.

 

9K+G and 66P+K; All the meaties Kage needs (slight hyperbole.) Learn to love these two moves. Many of Kage's knockdowns and combo enders set up one or both of these meaties. In situations where both are possible, you simply have to learn how to time a dash before the 66P+K. Not difficult with practice.

66P+K is a mid-hitting NH launcher which gives the same combo against a crouching or standing opponent; rare in VF and even rarer for Kage. When it lands, the resulting combo loops back into another 66P+K / 44K+G meaty opportunity. Meaty on a tech-roll, 66P+K is CD-fuzzyable on guard. If they quick-rise/guard, you can just crouch-fuzzy.

9K+G is the easiest meaty in the game, imo. After Kage's penny-ante knockdowns (4PK, 2K+G), you can land 9K+G meaty just by waiting for the opponent's body to hit the mat; wait for the thud. If they tech roll and guard, you can comfortably assume you're +2 (where elbow beats people who reasonably expect you will 2P after they guard 9K+G; watch my Final Round FT10 against Shag.) If they quick-rise, it's +7. If the opponent does not recover from the fall and you whiff the 9K+G, you cannot be punished with a rising attack. Riskier, if you expect a quick-rise and 9K+G immediately without waiting for the body to fall, it's a guaranteed back combo. This can be punished if opp. tech rolls instead. The worst risk/reward ratio, but it's an option.

 

Pretty sure Jeff 6K+G is the true easiest meaty in the game with 8 active frames.

What are the comboes off 66P+K that setup those meaties BTW? All I've been doing mostly is either 6_P, KPK/46K+GK:K.

 

As far as I see you can set them up after either of those.
Sarah 9K is faster than Jeff and has 9 actives BTW.

 

What about some safe low attacks as meaty, to make your opponent want to block low after teching ?

JUMP ( while descending ) possible after KND caused by:






+4 on hit, full circular ( so if you missed your timing and your opponent evade, you can still hit him with a nice +8 on CH lol ), safe (-4). Then you can do fancy stuffs like Jump then .

Also ( whiffs) can be used for the same situations as above, but harder to time.
After sometimes the low punch of the string can even hit side turned for +5, depending on the direction your opponent teched.

 

DRIFT QUOTE-Meaty on a tech-roll, 66P+K is CD-fuzzyable on guard. If they quick-rise/guard, you can just crouch-fuzzy.-END

I cant find a scenario where 66p+k is is fuzzyable, is it landind side turned? or does it lose a frame on meaty because of when its active frame hits?

 

Im pretty sure you can get a Fuzziable 66p+k on guard off of a 66k knockdown. k+g works too. As a mixup, Kage can OTG with 2p or 2p+k(k).

Off of any combo ending in 46k+gkk or kpk, Kage can go for 2p+kp+k+g to 50/50 someone between choosing to eat the OTG or deal with a shippu mixup

 

I would like to add that 2P+K has to hit. If the opponent tech right after KPK or the dragon kicks and Kage enters shippu with 2P+K ( on whiff ) he is at huge disadvantage leaving him open to punishment like launchers.

And yes it's kinda easy to get a CD fuzzyable 66P+K after 66K.

 

What I've found since yesterday is I CAN get up to -4 off 66p+k, but so far for me, its only from a tech roll, but i will keep practicing, many times I would keep getting -6 , then I guess I just finally got the timing right, and out came -4, and -5 depending on timing., I will try more today with PQR and other knockdowns, thanks. Although in a real fight I dont know how I could be sure I was fuzzable, there was no visual difference.

P.s. K+G is godly and timed perfectly gets me at least +7 from tech roll (catches side turned)

I also do not understand the 668, K+G to kill frames, I cant input the 8 (or 2) without a failed evade, so I am missing something... thnx again

 

In ref. to kingo's post

As you said, 2p+k can whiff , leaving you in big disadvantage, but if your reactions are tight, you "hit check" the 2 P+k and if it whiffs dont stance switch , but follow up with K (2p+k,k)

This can obviously be dealt with by guarding, but is a good OTG/tech punish strategy , as your opponent might see the whiffed 2 P+k and go for a quick attack, and if nothing else it can make them think twice about trying to punish your whiffed 2p+k.
Cuz a rising guard versus shippujin is in Kage's favor.

 

Yeah I know that.
But maybe I misunderstood what cozby was saying because I got the impression that he was saying that 2P+K P+K+G could deal with opponents who tech and stay on the ground at the same time.
Just want to point that the SHIPP mix ups occur only if the opponent techs after getting hit by 2P+K, not immediately after KPK or the dragon kicks.

 

this holds for every meaty:

if someone quick rise (in place) you don't gain any additional frames advantage (as long as he's not ST/BT)

It's because the invulnerability lasts much less and you get up much faster (still compared to a tech roll you got a bigger window where you can only guard/not guard high/low)


in the case of Kage's 2P+K OTG if it doesn't connect (i.e. the opponents tech roll) in case of no followup it can be punished by moves up to 14 frames (if you tech rolled on the very first possible frame) while in case there's the followup K than it's punishable with CH PK (tested out with 11 frames jab).

 

I wish Eileen had off the wall moves to play with like this. C'mon Sega, patch please.

 

can you imagine the rage if we got an FS patch at this point? LOL
no one wants AM2 working on FS at this point, even if they ported FS to Steam I think people would be pissed. (for clarification, I think people would love a Steam port of FS, but it should be done by SEGA's standard PC port team, not AM2!)