On The Topic Of Guard Failing When Waking Up…

I was having a discussion with Granpa Ohzeki about doing ukemi and Guard failing because of how it was inputted aroud the time of ukemi. We also discussed Goro Shiki and other relevent topics and the layered mechanics in Goro Shiki.

After our discussion, it looks like Granpa Ohzeki did more experimenting and came up with newer insights!

Source: https://x.com/granpa_ohzeki/status/1940640793200668867?s=61&t=YdTPMUN_jZ-bJ_fK-fhBbg

UPDATE: More Insights!

FINAL THOUGHTS (Maybe)

https://x.com/granpa_ohzeki/status/1940768977514647738?s=46&t=HK2fmGrrsCczJta5dx4QoQ

REFERENCE: Goro Shiki
I mentioned earlier about Goro Shiki. This is a special option select technique when doing ukemi which can defend against meaty attacks as well as do a different response if a well-timed meaty attack did not happen. This technique can even be applied in situations like after Jean hits you with 66P! Here is God3l’s classic post about this technique!
https://virtuafighter.com/threads/s...-command-interpreter-and-special-state.20136/

 

so what is the complete setup? i remember that (@Blessy ?) once told me how to do it, but now i dont remember . More or less it was
1. go to dojo
2. pick Goh against Jean
3. record some combination
4 record the other combination
5 play it random
6 one the comination hits Goh do tech roll with buffered 46k

if you did it correctlly, it either runs sabaki or triggers guard? or something like tihs.

So could anyone provdie details that i forgot

 

UPDATED with more insights by Granpa Ohzeki.

 

A bigger discussion was also involved. I will share some tweets of the discussions I am aware of

 

never have i felt more vindicated by the fact that I did indeed tech roll into a block and the game bugs out and says "nope" even tho I followed all the rules of the game. Hope they fix this bug.

Cliff notes version? cuz I find it hard to parse it all tbh. after tech we need to press P alone with no other buttons then press G again?

 

The opposite…

• When you tech roll…. You should first let go of anything you are holding if you are holding onto any input.
  
• Then you can press and hold G as you should to defend a meaty attack..
• But when your character recovers from ukemi…. That’s when you should turn that Guard into a Gurad-Throw-Escape.
• The thing that should help you feel better about doing this is that when you input throw escape on-time or a tad late, it’s generally fine because there’s a throw escape window that will still work. That’s why you can go from no throw escape into the correct throw escape sometimes a little later than you would think.

What the problem seems to be….

• Let’s say you got knocked down by the opponent while you were doing something that included the G button, like… SWEEP (K+G) or THROW (P+G) or even LION PUNCH PARRY (P+K+G)….
  
• You got knocked down so naturally you may react by doing UKEMI. Let’s say you Tech Roll here.
• Now let’s say you also quickly press and hold G immediately after inputting tech roll….
  
• But now let’s say you are still in tech roll and you want to turn that Guard into a Throw Escape so you press and hold P before you recovered.
  
• For whatever reason, this inputting P during the ukemi to get the Throw=Escape has just caused your character to no longer Guard.

So one answer seems to be to do the throw escape (quickly) after you’ve recovered from your ukami. But it would also help to not be holding onto any inputs from when you inputted the ukemi.

 

Thank you for the information on the "fail to block" issue! This has been bugging me for some time, and its really good to know its not just in our heads.

As to the goro shiki, I got it to work with block/evade option select earlier. Its actually really easy to input - the hardest part was recording a true meaty setup for the training bot. The key is having an idea of when does the buffer window start for moves after the techroll.

You get knocked down, you press techroll command direction+P+K+G once
then immediately after you press P+G and hold these buttons.
Then after the buffer window has started but you haven't yet recovered, you tap up or down for the sidestep (still holding those buttons).

This causes the following option select:
If opponent has timed the meaty properly: you block it
If opponent hasn't timed the meaty properly: you sidestep it (assuming correct direction ofc)
Additionally I think you are escaping the neutral throw with the P+G.

ps. Note that this is simply my own, personal, empirical testing. I don't use programmable controllers or anything. I recorded the bot to alternate between a proper meaty attack and same attack with non-meaty timing. Success rate of the option select was 100%.