Punishes and Nitaku form Wolf's 9f throws

I'm working on lists and potential guide around what wolf can do with his two 9 frame throws.

As you know, one of the 2.0 changes was was buffed to come out in 9f. This means Wolf now has two 9f throws on different directions, meaning he now has a 50/50 throw situation to punish at +9 and start nitaku 1f earlier at +5.

This thread is for discussing practical uses of this (if any) and testing stuff.


To start off, here is the list of -9 moves across the cast:
▇ Consistently punishable from nearly any range, and no followups to worry about
▇ Consistently punishable from nearly any range, but with small caveats
▇ Punishable, but with strong caveats
▇ Not practical or impossible to punish


Akira

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇From Teirou Kanpo
▇ (has followups)

Max range is +8, but punishble from round start
▇

Punishment wiffs if blocked from round start range, consistent if closer. BT version seems far more consistent to punish from range
▇
▇(opponent behind)

Aoi

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇
▇
▇
▇From Tenchi In'you /
▇ (has followups)

Brad

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇From Sway Back (has followups)
▇From Slipping (has followups)

Spacing dependent, want to be slightly closer then round start from where Brad starts the sway
▇From Sway Back

Tricky spacing, can easily be -8 even at ranges closer then round start
▇ (has followups)

Impractical to be close enough in practice for this to be -9 instead of -8 or safer
▇ (has followups)

Eileen

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇

Too much push back, requires Wolf's back to the wall
▇

El Blaze

Impossible to punish due to distance
▇ (on hit is -9)

Very tight spacing, at round start distance this will be -8
If the first P would wiff, expect this it be safer than -9
Ending in BT makes this effectively +8
▇

Goh

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇
▇

Max range is +8, but punishble from round start
▇

Jacky

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇ (has followups)
▇ (has followups)

Jean

Punishment wiffs if blocked from max range, works from round start
▇

Jeffry

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇

Kage

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇
▇From Hagakure-ryu You Jumonjibashiri (has followups)
▇From Shippujin Mikawashi (forward) (has followups)

Recovers crouching, not punishable
▇ (has followups)

Lau

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇
▇
▇ (has followups)

Lots of pushback (especially from Kokei), need to be close when blocked for consistent punishment
▇(opponent behind) From Kokei
▇(opponent behind)

Lei-Fei

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇From Dokuritsu Shiki (2nd hit)

Requires to be slightly closer then round start or consistent punishment
▇ (has followups)

Requires you to dash up between the 2nd and 3rd hit in order to be close enough to punish, otherwise move will be safer then -9
▇

Too much push back, requires wall behind Wolf
▇

Lion

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇
▇
▇
▇(opponent behind)

Fairly consistent, max range might not be punishable
▇ (has followups)

Pai

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇
▇
▇
▇ (has followups)
▇(opponent behind) (has followups)

Would require wall behind Pai to be in range for punishment
▇ (on hit)

Sarah

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇From Flamingo
▇From Flamingo (has followups)

Shun Di

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇ (has followups)

Consistent if the is also blocked, otherwise you will be out range
▇From Choukarou

Fairly consistent, max range might not be punishable
▇ (has followups)

Not possible due to how far backwards Shun moves
▇

Taka

▇ None!

Vanessa

DS
Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇ (has followups)

Spacing dependent, but consistent from round start range
▇

OS
Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇

Wolf

Consistent punishment (if no possible followups are used)
▇(while running)
▇From Deadly Move
▇ (has followups)

Is -8 at long ranges, but otherwise consistent punishment
▇

Consistent, but leaves the opponent sideturned, resulting in sidethrow (no mixup)
▇

 

Moves that give wolf nitaku with his 9f throws.

These are the moves in character movelists that are -5 on block or hit, and thus allow you to now gain a nitaku situation via the use of wolfs 9f throws.

Not including , as while they are -5 they recover crouching.

Akira

Usefulness: ★★★




Must be closer then round start to be -5


Push back is to great, Wolf needs a wall behind him to be close enough for the throws
(while descending)

Aoi

Usefulness: ★
(has followups)
(has followups)

Brad

Usefulness: ★
(has followups)



From Ducking (has followups)

Need to be closer then round start to end up in throw range
(has followups)

Needs to be extremely close otherwise it's safer
(has followups)

Ducking stance afterwards avoids the throws
(has followups)
(has followups)

Eileen

Usefulness: ★★

(has follow ups with interupt stances)
(has follow ups)


Required to be closer then round start to make it -5, else it will be -4.


While this is -5, it recovers backturn, making it weird. The pushback is enough that a CD away from the opponent still avoids even 9f throws, but long range attacks will be guaranteed to hit


El Blaze

Usefulness: ★
(has followups)
(has followups)
(has followups)

Must be closer then round start


From Rocket Discharge (has followups)

-5 on hit, leaves El Blaze standing for nitaku


Push back is too far even at close range
or


Goh

Usefulness: ★★★



(has followups)

Must be closer then round start to be -5
(has followups)

Must be point blank range due to pushback


Jacky

Usefulness: ★★
(has followups)
(has followups)
(has followups)

From Slide Shuffle
(opponent behind)

Works from round start range, otherwise pushback is too great


Pushback is too great
(opponent behind)

Recovers low
(has followups)
(opponent behind)

Jean

Usefulness: ★
(has followups)
(while descending)

Pushback is too great


Jeffry

Usefulness: ★★
(has followups)



Seems very consistent but had had trouble testing this one due to timing and how CPUs in training mode work
, then during guard

Kage

Usefulness: ★
(has followups)
From Hagakure-ryu You Jumonji Kamae (good luck telling this from which is only -2)
From Hagakure-ryu You Jumonji Kamae

Must be very close otherwise pushback is too great


Recovers BT, seems to only get sidethrow if they try and CD away
(has followups)
(stance entry) (this actually seems to end up being -7 if they do nothing)

Recovers crouching
(opponent behind) From Hagakure-ryu In Shippujin (has followups, -5 on hit)

Not actually nitaku as he's forced into another stance
(opponent behind) From Hagakure-ryu In Shippujin

Technically -5 but has guaranteed hit throw on guard


Lau

Usefulness: ★★

(has followups, -5 on hit)

(has followups, -5 on hit)


(-5 on hit)

Recovers BT, seems to only get sidethrow if they try and CD away
(has followups)
From Kokei
From Kokei (has followups)

Pushback is too great
or

Lei-Fei

Usefulness:

(has followups)
(has followups)
From Kyo Shiki (has followups, -5 on hit)
(opponent behind) (-5 on hit, has followups)
(opponent behind)

These all have a range dependency on either being -5 or close enough to throw
(works from round start range, otherwise pushback is too great)
(must be closer then round start or it's safer then -5)
From Bokutai (have to walk into Le-Fei as he enters stance to be close enough for it to be -5 on block)
From Bokutai (need to be in Lei-Fei's face when he enters stance to be close enough so that it is -5 on block)
(while descending) (doesn't reach from max distance)

Seems impossible to get close enough for this to actually be -5 on block
From Bokutai

Not actually nitaku as he's forced into another stance

(has followups)
(opponent behind)
From Koko Shiki (2nd hit)
From Kyo Shiki
(opponent behind) From Kyo Shiki

Recovers low
From Kyo Shiki (-5 on hit)

Couldn't test these BT moves properly yet
(opponent behind) From Hai Shiki (-5 on hit, has followups)
(opponent behind) From Hai Shiki
(opponent in front) From Koko Shiki
(opponent behind) From Dokuritsu Shiki
(opponent behind) From Kyo Shiki (-5 on hit, has followups)
(opponent behind) From Kyo Shiki


Lion

Usefulness:
(-5 on hit, has followups)
(has followups)
From Tourou Soufu (has followups)
From Tourou Teihozen (has followups)
From Tourou Teihozen
(opponent behind) (2nd hit) (-5 on hit, has followups)

Must be closer then round start to reach
From Tourou Teihozen
From Tourou Teihozen

Must be very close to reach



Too much pushback to reach after blocking
(while descending)

Recovers low
(-5 on CH, has followups)

Pai

Usefulness:

(has followups)
(has followups)
(has followups)

Must be very close to reach
(while descending)

Recovers BT, if they CD away the throw will connect as a side throw
(has followups)

(2nd hit)

Sarah

Usefulness: ★
(has followups)
(has followups)
(has followups)
(has followups)
(has followups)
From Backward Slide

Won't reach if blocked at max range
(has followups)

Followups are guaranteed on hit, and hit-throws works on guard, making these impractical
(-5 on hit, has followups)
(opponent behind) (-5 on hit, has followups)
From Flamingo (goes into throw on guard)

Too much pushback to reach after blocking
(pushback is too great)
(has followups) (pushback is too great)

Recovers low
(opponent behind)
(opponent behind) From Flamingo

Shun

Usefulness:
(has followups)
(has followups)



(opponent behind) (has followups)

Must be closer then round start otherwise it is safer then -5
(has followups)

Must be close otherwise pushback is too great
(while descending)

Not actually nitaku as he's forced into another stance
From Soukokukyu (has followups)

Too much pushback to reach after blocking
(opponent behind) (pushback is too great)

Recovers low
(-5 on CH)
(-5 on hit, has followups at 10+ drinks)

Taka

Usefulness: ★★
(has followups)

(2nd hit) (has followups)
(2nd hit) (-5 on hit, has followups)
(2nd hit) (-5 on hit, has followups)


Must be closer then round start due to pushback or frames
(has followups)


Recovers low
(-5 on hit, has followups)
(opponent behind) (-5 on hit, has followups)

Vanessa

Usefulness: ★★★
DS (while rising from a crouch)
DS
DS (opponent behind)
OS (has followups)

Safer then -5 if roll starts away from you
OS (while descending)
OS From Intruder Step:

Works from round start range but not further
OS (has followups)
OS

Must be closer then round start due to pushback or frames
DS
DS

Too much pushback to reach after blocking
DS
DS (opponent behind)
OS (has followups)

Wolf

Usefulness: ★★★

(has followups)

 

Placeholder

TODO:

• Test all the -9 moves are actually punishable
• add small overview to each character to explain how viable/general strategy for using the 9f throws
• compile list of -5 moves for nitaku
• explore frames on moves blocked on sideturn (ie, a move normally more punishable than -9 becomes -9 if wolf blocks it from the side)
• explore frames from wolf hitting the opponent in the side (need to confirm if these will be 9f still but obviously not a 50/50, probably not practical)
• Get a better colour scene for the move rating that's compatible with colour blindness.
• Learn how to format for readability
• Learn to proof read for spelling mistakes before posting threads....sigh...

Changes:
2025/03/11 - Changed the character order from weight to alphabetical, because it just makes more sense.
2025/03/12 - Added images from the wiki to help make it easier to see each character section, added several characters moves to the -5 section.
2025/03/14 - Added some more characters to the -5 section and added an initial "rating" on how "useful" going for the -5 nitaku could be in each matchup.
2025/03/15 - added all -5 moves, still need to add usefulness rating to some characters and some things need further testing.

 

I've got the initial testing now done for -9 and -5 moves. Only some strange BT stances from Lei-Fei haven't been tested. Don't think any of them are actually practical in game but I'll find a way to test them later for the sake of completeness.

I'm trying to now work out from my limited VF5 experience of a few months how good these are now for wolf. Would love other player inputs on this.

I think for the Akira matchup it's kinda big. Blocking any or now gives nitaku.
Aoi and Pai don't seem to matter for the nitaku, but there's quite a few solid strings of theirs that are now actually throw punishable by wolf.

Wolf himself is surprisingly impacted by the changes I feel. and especially being -5 is big, but also being punishable and all versions of his shoulder charge.