Question about 1-frame delay

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by KEYTH, May 26, 2008.

  1. KEYTH

    KEYTH New Member

    I'm a tekken player that started playing VF recentley and I don't quite understand the notion of 1 frame delay presented in the glossary about frame VF's data!

    "When using dash ff, crouching dash dfdf, back dash bb or crouching back dash dbdb, if you enter the dash command and then enter an attack command, there will be a delay of one frame even if you buffer the command. This is called 1-frame delay. But by entering the directional button portion of the attack command in the first half of the buffer period[/size] (when only directional buttons are recognized), you can avoid this delay, and launch your attack as quickly as possible."

    wich is the part that only recognizes directional inputs?
    there is an example on a situation that I think could help,
    like when Akira does /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif! that's a 1 frame delay right?
     
    KEYTH, May 26, 2008
    #1
  2. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    plague-cwa
    XBL:
    HowBoutSmPLAGUE
    First off, hello and welcome. Secondly, it's awesome that you are studying existing material before asking questions. Thank you.

    I find that glossary entry a little unclear so I'll illustrate what I think it's saying it with scenarios...

    Scenario 1) - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:
    Let's say that you're just standing there and you want attack with double-palm (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif) as fast as possible. Double-palm takes 13 frames to execute but you've got to crouch first. Since crouch-dash is the fastest way to crouching state, you enter /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif*. No matter how fast you input commands, the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif will always take one frame - so it's considered a one-frame delay. Your double-palm ends up taking 14 frames.

    Scenario 2) - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif right into /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:
    Let's say that you want to attack with dashing elbow (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif) and then attack with double-palm right afterwards. If you hit with elbow and then just hold down on the stick to crouch for a double-palm, you will waste too much time crouching. You need to input the double-palm as described in the preceding scenario. Even though a successful elbow hit leaves you in a standing state, you have time during hit recovery phase to enter the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif portion of the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. The /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif puts you into a crouch and does not count as a one frame delay because it happens during elbow hit recovery (this, I believe, is what the glossary-entry writer meant by "first half of the buffer period[/size]"). On-screen, Akira will go from dashing elbow animation right into double-palm animation. You will not see the crouch-dash animation. The command input looks like this: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.


    *Using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif as a substitute for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif in moves that start from crouch is called "modifying" the move. If you ever see the phrase "modified double-palm" or "m-dblpm", the writer is describing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.
     
    Plague, May 26, 2008
    #2
  3. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    The definition you're struggling is a direct quote from the PS2 VF4 in-game glossary, which was translated from an original Japanese definition. It's hard to say if anything was lost in the translation, but I will admit that when it talks about the "first half of the buffer period", I was lost too. Neither the first half, second half, or entire buffer period were further explained in the game from my recollection.

    1 frame delays are only really important in the context of combos. You're either required to delay by 1 frame, or not waste any frames in order to be successful in some combos. But, as a newcomer to VF, I would recommend that you don't get too hung up on it and you're much better off tackling other areas.

    However, if you're interested in reading more about the input buffer, then I suggest reading the Command Input section in the wiki system guide here:

    http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:system_part_1#command_input

    In part 2 of the system guide, there's also stuff under the Combo Success section regarding Fastest Timing and 1-frame kill (or delay) which you can read up:

    http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:system_part_2#combo_success
     
    Myke, May 27, 2008
    #3
  4. Jaytech

    Jaytech Well-Known Member

    wondered about that, too. thanks for the info. although i wonder if a 1frame delay makes so much difference during gameplay.
     
    Jaytech, Jun 6, 2008
    #4
  5. Dandy_J

    Dandy_J Well-Known Member

    Unless they changed it for VF5, doing a crouching move from standing will always cause a 1 frame delay, there is no way to circumvent it. The 1 frame delay for 44/66/11/33 moves only applies to moves that are already done from standing e.g. Akira's 33p or one of the many 66_ commands.
     
    Dandy_J, Jul 5, 2008
    #5

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