Ranked Vs Player Vs Room modes for Noobs/Intermediates?

When VF5FS first dropped, I was worried that Ranked Mode would get too much or for that matter all the attention of the online modes. Ranked mode keeps a fighting profile on you. Ranked mode keeps your fighting statistics, and ranked mode displays your title. While the VF-Hardcore don't care about these petty details, everyone else does.

No titles or stats in Room mode, No titles or stats in Player(non ranked mode)! So we wonder why now, if you find ppl online you mostly find them in ranked (do tell). I also wondered at the drop of VF5FS would the game play behavior be influenced by getting promoted or demoted , at the time everyone said ah, don't worry about it rank doesn't matter. How wrong they were! To this day , years after VF5FS has dropped ppl still play very differently in Ranked mode than they do in Player matches or Room matches. If Rank doesn't matter then why the dramatic difference?

I also am now fully convinced that the current implementation of VF Online play with the focus on Ranked mode(promotions/demotions) (its the only mode in the entire game that shows any kind of player profile, stats, titles, ranks, etc) has served to help keep the potential fans of VF small. Reason: The VF-gods dominate ranked mode, you go in there you are guaranteed to get totally demolished. So the moral of the story is (if you are noob or casual) don't play ranked or you'll get demolished! But ranked mode is the only mode that ppl regularly play. So why bother?

I think Player (non ranked) rooms are probably the best rooms for noobs and casuals to play in. For several reasons: First, if they make mistakes they don't have to worry about losing rank, they can take chances and explore the game, play it for fun. Second , its not as intimidating as playing in a Room. If you are noob, or casual, you might not want to play in a room with spectators at first because you don't want look like a punk when the VF-gods beat the shit out of you. Lastly you don't have to focus on showing off and your opponent doesn't have to focus on showing off. Its just the two of you with nothing to lose and everything to gain. But Player Matches should show your License Level C2, B1, etc and your rank, so both players have some idea of who they are playing.

The problem is , you could wait in a Player room for hours (at any time of the day) and no one show up.

There should be more of a focus on Player (non ranked) . The Rooms should be next in line, and Ranked mode, should be de-emphasized (I know it won't be) but it should be.

Ranked mode causes ppl to play in ways that are destructive in the long run to the VF Community. I was worried about this when VF5FS first dropped , now I know Ranked mode is actually part of the problem.

The focus on Ranked rooms, The lack of focus on Player rooms is one of the major reasons that the community has not grown larger than it is.

TBH I don't even think the game should allow players to enter into Ranked matches until they have reached a certain License level in single player and have met the Dojo command level challenges! And once you have achieved a certain rank, you should keep it. Let the Win/Loss ratio and battle points tell the rest of the story.

 

I think you find more people in ranked is because it's easier to find random matches with different people. Player match is coo. But you're stuck playing one person. Which is fine. But a few people in a room is usually more fun.

Room matches would do a lot better if you could queue yourself up to join a room that's in progress instead of not being able to see the room at all. Sometimes you can refresh and try to catch a window to join. But lots of times, people do the skip timer thing right away. I can understand not waiting the full 30 seconds. But 15 seconds wouldn't hurt. Gotta give people a chance to join. What's the point in having a 4 person room if you're constantly skipping the timer when there's still a slot or 2 open.

 

@masterpo ''The VFgods dominate ranked mode''.......TROOOOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL What VFgods? You mean all the fraudlords? Or the players that have over 20,000 games and still at hunter? People in ranked are average at best. VFDC players are the ones who have the knowledge necessary to pontentially rise to a high caliber tournament level.

 

When this came out, I knew it wasn't going to last long in activity, so I lost patience on waiting from psn and removed everyone sadly from the list (I no longer have a PS3). Since one of my relatives have this on XBL, I decided to comeback to play it yesterday, but only gotten one game in from waiting over 2 hours in player match, was declined in rank.

Anyway from rank match, the measure of play was just there, from what I remembered from psn, which was very similar to other fighting games. I had a better challenge in player match and offline PVP most of the time, than ranked. Didn't lose much in that rank mode almost 2 years ago, from a record of about 500 something matches and 30 something loses. I'm someone who doesn't take this seriously. So, you could say I'm casual in context.

 

Zekiel, LOL, if it were only that simple.

My friend there are some very very good players on PSN who lurk in waiting in Rank matches. At least they are very very good by my standards, which might not be as high as yours. My definition of a VF god is one who

• has deep frame knowledge about most characters in the game

• can take advantage of that frame knowledge in most matches at will

• has mastery of the VF fighting game mechanics

• has high level dexterity

• has a repertoire of 5 to 7 (4 or 5) hit combos per character used and knows when to use and how to use them

• has 5+ years playing the game at high level

There are cats on PSN who easily meet this criteria and they normally make mince meat out of noobs, casual players, and most intermediate players. LOL I am regularly a victim of this level player on PSN


Zekiel if you think that all of the ppl that play in ranked on PSN are average at best,
you must be one helluva player

 

Ranked are, systematically speaking, the same mode as "player matches"
- the only difference being that it keps track on wins/losses and tacks a title on it.

Personally i do not care wheter i play in ranked or player match
- as long as i get to fight at all.
The win/loss ratio is more a personal gauge to me, it should be counting all modes.
It can bring out nerves in players though, in a bad way - that is the only con of it.

I also like rooms because it "simulates" a room full of people playing, you get to spectate the other players, have your own turn at it, and also talk to the other players/friends
- But it is flawed by the VF "bug" where it disconnects willy-nilly at times, no matter the connection. it is room-specific though.

All in all, i try to just focus on improving, i do not care how hard or breathtakingly blown out i can be sometimes as long as i can see myself just improving my play a tiny little bit more everytime.

 

Exactly! It those points that make players , dodge, or choose not to play, unplug, spam, sometimes they'll play once or twice, but if they lose too many matches consecutively someplayers don't want to be demoted! Sure there are players who don't care , (lots of players with thousands of matches at Hunter Rank) but many players do care so rather than keep playing (which would be good for the community) they decline the next challenge. I am guilty of this myself from time to time. I've been demoted several times, I climb back to the rank that I like (Defender) I think Defender fits me IRL. And I'm reluctant to play too many consecutive matches with someone that I know I'll loose to everytime because in some cases that person is just a stronger player than me and always will be

I happen to like my title Defender, I think its kewl. Is very shaolinesque

So I would rather play in rooms or player matches where I don't have to worry about my W/L ratio or title! Contrary to what the VF-gods say; us mere mortals do worry about such things. And I've have met countless ppl on PSN who feel exactly the same way...

The VF-gods can pontificate all they want about how rank doesn't matter, but for some ppl it does, but not necessarily in the same way and for the same reasons. In my case I like the title defender, I really don't care what level it represents. If Defender was the same as 10kyu I would still want that title. I know more than a few players with the Assassin rank that feel exactly the same LOL.

I am absolutely certain that if VF took the concept that SCV uses of titles/ranks, and separated titles from rank that more ppl would play more often and play more levels of players. VF should use the license concept from single player as rank. Once you have the License C2, B1, A4, etc you have it, no worries about loosing it. If you unlock the title of Warrior, Sentinel, Assassin, Barbarian, TigerClaw, etc you should be allowed to display whatever title you want out of the title's you've unlocked. Displaying W/L ratio should be optional, but battle points mandatory.

This would lead to more ppl playing, a bigger fun factor, more ppl playing more often. I know it sounds simplistic, but I know it would work from exchanging chats with scores of ppl. Soul Caliber V gets the title and rank thing right. Virtua Fighter would be well served to just copy what Project Soul did with Soul Calibur V .

 

@masterpo

That is not "exactly" as what i was saying, small parts contracted from the context or not.

As usual i only agree to certain small parts of what you are saying, but then you go on much further and manage to end up in an almost contradictory point of view from where you started.

I do not view losing online, even in ranked, as detrimental as it seems you do,
neither do i lament or covet a specific title - all is about trying to improve and learn.

Furthermore I must take issue with your division and labeling some of the people as "vf-gods", how they "pontificate" and in another thread (the psn good games thread) which seems to be where this current reasoning/semi-rant started
you also label players as "super star , hard-core players..".

You could make an argument that you did not mean this in spite, or in a semi-derogatory manner - but it really strongly feel as a veiled attempt to throw some trash at people who choose to dig deeper into the mechanics of the game and game-series we all (hopefuly) like playing.

In the end it feels a little like you fall down in the very same cathegory as the sort people you seek and attempt to call out - someone not that happy with/enjoying VF5FS as it currently works.

You seem like a person with a basically good personality, but you need to tone it down a few notches - i believe.

 

This is a very bad idea. Don't get me wrong MasterPo, but that could make the game look very unfriendly to newcomers. No matter the skills or the time you have spent in the single player modes, online modes should be availiable for everyone, as they are now. If I can't play with players who are better than me, how am I supposed to improve my game or learn from my mistakes? If the game is forcing you to reach a certain Licence or any other requirement in order to unlock Ranking Mode, it's like taking away the most fun part of the game: to learn the game by playing against good players. And by losing against those players, you improve your game. Everyone should be able to play with everybody, no matter the skill. Also, by reaching a certain Licence, it doesn't mean that you are ready to take out the world.

 

Since you're talking about ranked online matches, I'm going to respond to your points 1 by 1:

My definition of a VF god is one who

• has deep frame knowledge about most characters in the game - LOL, majority of players online have no idea what a frame is. They just react to what works for them. Given how much people spam moves online, it's a safe bet that many of them have no clue about the frames of moves that that use.

• can take advantage of that frame knowledge in most matches at will - Again...no. Most people online have no idea about punishment or frame advantage or whatever. So....no...

• has mastery of the VF fighting game mechanics - Sure this is a legit requirement for a "VF God", yet I'm more than positive that majority of online folks do not qualify for this (myself included). Just the rampant use of disqualifies the majority of online warriors.

• has high level dexterity - Meh...no comment on this.

• has a repertoire of 5 to 7 (4 or 5) hit combos per character used and knows when to use and how to use them - Disqualifies 95% of online players. Repeat the same move/combo at will with no regard to actually using them properly...yea...no...

• has 5+ years playing the game at high level - Okay, but again, most online warriors won't fit this. Though this really is independent of ranked...

 

I really liked what toydingo said but since we know people that live only playing ranked matches are likely to make the same mistakes over and over it is a good tool for learning how to beat it. It can act as a training tool in this area remember that. I am not going to say how anyone should play personally because that has already been said before. All that matters that you learn from your mistakes when you make them regardless of the mode you play

Frame knowledge should be common sense at some point when you see a good player always does a launcher after a blocking a low sweep (I might not want to do that again when I face someone of that level), or if they always throw after blocking a launcher for about 1/3rd of your health (I might not want to get my launcher blocked so much) things like that. Why people always fail to react to that on them but I can't tell what they think so I don't try to do that. All that matters is that you play the game and enjoy it. If you hate ranked don't play it and find people to play in rooms or player matches. If you don't like playing a person you know you hate to play avoid them and look for people you might enjoy playing with. It is all about having fun here not nitpicking over stupid stuff like frames or how player A played VF for 5+ years or more. It is just a game people don't magnify its importance beyond what it really is. I am done talking now have fun and try to enjoy FS or any other game you play as best you can alright

 

@ToyDingo , LOL I didn't say everybody who plays online, or who has a high rank online meets this criteria. I said there are cats online that easily meet it. I was responding to Zekiel who categorized the online players as fraudlords LOL Zekiel some of them are fraudlords some of them aren't.


@PReP I have no problem losing anywhere online, offline, in ranked or not. As I have posted many times I am the master of losing. I do like my title though, so I don't like getting demoted. Of course you have to loose to get demoted LOL I just would like to have control over my title. I really don't care about rank much. (SCV title/rank system gets it right imo) I've lost thousands of matches and will lose thousands more no big deal there. In my post I was referring to why so many ppl have the behavior they have in rank mode. Of course not everybody behaves the same, But many do. Also I have no bone to pick with ppl who get deeper into the game. Actually I know a helluva lot about frames, ina,shis, sabakis, OM, DM, advantage and disadvantage myself. But all of that stuff can and does turn some noobs ,and casuals off. One of the things that I like about VF is its depth, but we should be judicious with it. I thoroughly enjoy VF5FS , I've got the Wins/Losses and battle points to prove it. But just because I enjoy it doesn't mean I can't simultaneously criticize it or point out the short comings of the game or the community right?


A lot of ppl one why PSN online can be a ghost town at times. My posts simply explain some (not all ) of the reasons

@Shinobi Very good point!

 

The most significant difference I experience in a rank match is the added pressure to perform that isn't often felt while playing a room match or player match. Now the level of intensity in online play in general doesn't measure up to the kind of pressure that is experienced to playing offline which is the best way to play bar none, but I do think rank mode is the next best thing with regards to online play. To me there's nothing like playing a long series of ranked matches against a player or group with similar rank titles as yours, and not quick to bail to room/player mode after suffering consecutive losses. A tug-of-war series full of pressure matches with something at stake is what brings out the best in both players.

From day one I thought it was pointless to try and aim strictly for wins and promotions in rank mode because of the number of ways the current system can be (and has been) cheated with 1.) an unlimited number of chances to turn down matches without being tracked/tallied; 2.) the rampant dodging; and 3.) the overall lack of punishment issued by the system for doing both of these things frequently. And I won't even get into the disconnects. So when I play in ranked mode I mainly look to test myself in executing certain moves and tactics under pressure situations while still make things competitive in a match, and nothing more. I personally think it's the best way to try and stay sharp with limited reps.

And I mostly agree with what Tha_FeauchA posted above. I do find room matches enjoyable when I'm actually in one. However, I much rather sit idle in rank mode than get myself frustrated trying to join a room with the way it's currently set up.

Kruza

 

Masterpo, what are you ranting about now? The community decides where they are going to play. Players (including myself) are going to play according to many factors; the most important being time. I usually go into Rank because it's the expedient choice. If my friends are on and in a room, I ask for an invite...or I wait for one.
It is our (the community) option to be-friend new players and reach out to them. I do as I feel. Do others? I don't know and I really don't have control, so I don't care. Additionally, I only have so much time to give to the benefit of new players, and I don't care about fair-weather players.
I get that you are trying to figure out some formula/method/thesis/premise...blah...regarding what can manipulate behavior...but my goodness, it as simple as doing what YOU can to reach out and engage new players...after you destroy them, of course.
Sega gave us the game, use it. Use VFDC. Use all the tools you have.

 

The only VF GOD

 

Yea that dude rarely loses which is impressive in VF. When the last time he played though? Last time i saw him was V1

 

He loses... there are even better Lion players than him right now

 

YO S'up phanatic? You know me, always something to rant about LOL. According to your post you only have so much time for new players and you don't care about fair weather players. I'm one of the old timers in our community who really does care a great deal about new players and fair weather players (I'm more or less in the later camp myself). Somebody has to do it right? I'm not suggesting that it be everyone's concern, but it is mine. If you notice the name of the thread includes 'Noobs and Intermediates' and I was really generating a discussion about how and why so many (not all) players exhibit the behavior they do in Ranked mode, and why the focus on Ranked mode causes some (not all) noob and casuals to put VF down and what might possibly be a remedy.

Phanatic I'm not trying to dictate how anyone plays VF in particular, but I am suggesting a culture with respect to Rooms, Player and Ranked that might be encourage more noobs, casuals and intermediate to play VF more.



Nothing but good intentions mate...

 

The main problem is:

1. People don't play regularly enough or
for long periods.

2. Representation of specific character matchups doesn't exsist and nobody is putting forth effort to fill this.

3. Vf love is something of a lost relic. I see most gamers choosing flavor of the month over it due to 1 and 2.

4. Private club vf or as I call it , Ralph Lauren vfrs" need to keep rooms open regardless of skill set. This really hurts everyone.

5. Player match is amazing and fast and should be thought of as a great 1st to 10 at minimum.

This is all no secret at all. If you want more vf than offer more vf to your community on a REGULAR.

 

I get that you're trying to figure out how to get our numbers up...but my point is YOU can't. And to Tim's point, there are clicks in every game, in all genres...I fall back to marketing--when you meet a new player, market VFDC, offer to help them. Some are willing; many are not.
And what I meant by fair-weather players was, once I get a sense that the player doesn't want to take any advice (not that I'm such a great player) or doesn't respond, I do what any mentally stable person does, I stop wasting my time. I've done my part. If they reach out, I reach out. (Tim is a great example of the proactive member of our community. He reached out to me and helped me become what I have.)
One last note: You and others (e.g., Tim and even me) have a long relationship with VF and other FGs. We grew up with arcades where the games were introduced and spend much of our young lives in them. Take into consideration all of the different games and devices that are available today...People are overwhelmed from the ridiculous amount of such things. Furthermore, I find people (younger people) have no tolerance for losing; if they aren't naturally decent, they quit and move on to something else that they're better at; they lack perseverance, patience, and can't take a challenge.
What's the answer? Culture change. How will this happen, and who can cause it? Certainly is it much greater than any of us individually and collectively.
Finally, (someone on this thread said it) you cannot blame skillful players for blowing up noobs. (Looking at myself) The reason I'm at the level I'm at is because I kept learning. Don't blame good players for the state of our community. Good players are good because they stuck with it; furthermore, good players want to play good players to keep the challenge alive and to keep growing, which is contrary to many players of today that can't handle challenge. They are diametrically opposed--one type of player doesn't like learning and challenge; the other does. Therefore, you are trying to reach the unreachable. You can't help those who won't help themselves as the saying goes.