Some pointers for fighting against Akira

Nevermind the video...Apparently I need to spend a week or two editing and finding relevant clips to show. Change the title and watch the Akira clip below.

I wont include any notes for the video vs TSJeffry.

Click 480p to view since there is text in the video. I'd like to ask the players on the forum if they're aware of when they clash or if it's a random event for them.

Since Wolf is a commonly played character on Live I put together some quick pointers for fighting against him. My opponent in the video is Papersong, a Taiwan Wolf player. I have a few VF videos that I've started a while ago and I get to work on them whenever I have a moment to spare. I finally got around to finishing this one yesterday. This video includes some training mode examples of how you can use clash to escape all throws and in some instances keep the advantage.

All of the text notes in this video are available on VFDC in the Wiki or in specific posts, such as the one related to the formula for calculating clash. Please search for these existing notes.

Dennis, I promise I'll get around to the matches versus TSJeffry for you next. I started the video already and will post soon. I played the guy in this video before you introduced me to the TW VF'ers. The quality of the connection was probably just below 2 bars so you see both of taking additional damage after throws that should have been avoided.

I hope Leonard, Mackfactor and everyone else, either starting or still improving, might get something useful from the video.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Can't wait to check out the videos!!
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Oh wow.

I was going to say something about this video and I'm glad I didn't because it would have been completely overshadowed by that belter above this.

I noticed the evades as well. I have a bad habit of always evading in one direction as well but if I notice I'm getting clocked by half circulars I'll make a point of evading in the correct direction.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

maaan i saw so many missed oppotunities by this wolf player. too much P, low lariate and P, 3k setups. WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE REST OF HIS MOVESLIST?!?!? not to mention bad hitchecking. hahah sorry, as a wolf player myself, i'm critical.

i've had a long session with papersong before, and it seemed very easy to condition him...which is good in a way, but not ALL the time.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

The only throw whiff punishment I saw was:

@0:30 a throw (not guaranteed)
@2:34 a (hit) throw (not guaranteed)

To be honest with you, I was expecting something better, something guaranteed and punishing like a combo starter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2. Crouching and fuzzy guarding (no more getting hit by P throw)</div></div>
I didn't see any crouch fuzzy to prevent (hit) throw attempts. What I did see was:

@0:16 (hit) sidekick, which connected. (failed fuzzy)
@1:48 (hit) back dash shoulder, which connected. (looks like a failed TE attempt)
@1:02 is an occasion where we see (guard) followed by a slow mid, which you successfully fuzzy guard, but I was expecting to see some (hit) fuzzy demonstrated.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3. Sabaki attempt at -8</div></div>
I think I saw two sabaki attempts which completely whiff. Why were we asked to pay attention to this? Feels like I missed something.

Part 2 - Pattern play & Dodging Half Circulars
In the second part you talk about many wolf players have heavy pattern play. You advise to take the pattern away (but don't say how?), and to dodge in the right direction (which is the "right" direction vs wolf?). Again, in the match that follows I was expecting to see this demonstrated.

But instead, we see a single round which is quite short to notice any kind of pattern developing (except for all the abare). If there was some pattern play there, I failed to see how you took it away?

Then comes the dodging part. I assume you're talking about doding the slllooowwww charge attack? (Come on, that should be a no brainer!), but then what shortly follows is a successful dodge of Wolf's screw hook which is also half circular. So then I asked myself, "Wow, not bad, looks like Andy is paying attention to Wolf's stance so that he can dodge in the 'right direction'" Note that the charge attack and the screw hook have to be dodged in opposite directions (back and stomach, respectively).

But then I happened to notice that on both dodging occasions, the "right" dodge direction was down. With that in mind, I watched the entire video again, counting all your dodges and noting the direction. I found that in all the footage shown in that video, you dodged approximately 32 times. Of those 32 dodges, guess how many were in the down direction?

p.s. I know that I have a habit of favouring a particular direction when I dodge too

Part 3 - P abare
You advocate the deliberate use of from disadvantage to produce a clash, but discourage the use of claiming that you'll "likely eat a MC if you abuse it."

Aren't you just as likely to "eat a MC" if you abuse (or any attack for that matter) from disadvantage? One could always argue that if you're betting on your to clash, why not go for something bigger, that won't clash, and might even lead to a combo!? There are specific occasions where abare play will pay off, like when you mention as a counter to a delayed attack to beat ETEG. That's way way too many levels deep into a guessing game that's just not apparent in those matches, and personally, I wouldn't advise to those learning the game.

Part 4 - Putting it all together
Here I expected to see all of the above put together, but failed to see any of it. For the first two rounds you opened with very aggressive starters, which paid off with combos. The remainder of the rounds was just a case of you making all the right guesses and him eating everything. The final round just seemed like an exchange of pokes with you winning it out.

General Observations
The matches will rife with abare play which was (for me) quite frustrating to watch. What was your connection strength with this guy? I noticed he missed a lot of combos with Wolf which could have been due to lag.

But more importantly, what did any of this have to do with "pointers for fighting against Wolf"? Apart from the matches being played against Wolf, I didn't see anything demonstrated that was specific to this matchup. </div></div>

Call me lazy, but I'm not so interested in posting up super clear examples anymore as the effort vs payoff isn't exactly worthwhile. I've posted enough clear examples that the correctness of my opinion should be based on my track record. Of my last 139 posts on VFDC have I ever stated any absolute opinions? Have any of my recommendations been un-subjective? Have I ever posted any advice that would be considered an uncommon choice in the situations given? The answers are no, no and no.

Just as an isolated example...you mentioned on a whiffed throw that neither the throw followup or the P throw were guaranteed. Where did I say I was illustrating what the guaranteed followups were? Some of the most common reactions to a whiffed throw are to throw back, p, or pk. The key has always been to react in time. Are any of the choices uncommon?

I'll give a second example of how I was kind enough to spend a moment in training mode because my sabaki at -8 whiffed against Wolf. I knew that. To show what my thinking was based on I went to training mode. I wanted to get people thinking about it. Why would I choose to Sabaki? It's a clear enough example with the addition of the training mode clip, but I noticed you didn't bother to comment on that. Yes my Sabaki whiffed twice, thanks for noticing. I guess you like selective viewing with colored glasses.

I notice that you didn't bother to comment on either my Lau video or the video vs Jeff. Both of those videos contained far more specific recommendations...and oh jeez...I dodge up in those videos...Where's your commentary?

As a response to Chief and Myke...take your games with Papersong with a grain of salt...your connection to him has got to be totally Grey...it's impossible for you to say you can condition someone like that. I live not too far away and I mentioned my connection was sub 2 bar with this guy.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Regardless of connection the guy clearly wasn't very good. He didn't hit check anything and made use of Wolf's screw hook twice in five rounds.

And I use the term "made use of" very loosely.

He uses short shoulder when you have a tiny bit of health left. And it was a speculative short shoulder, it wasn't in retaliation to anything.

He doesn't even hit check his 6K for MC which is basic stuff.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

I think Azzie just saying he's good because he's Taiwanese. Again a person without proper understanding of VF would'nt notice much in this video. What i see here is To low-level players trying to outwit each other with random guesses. Its ok nice video.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

*Sigh* It's never enough to contribute and offer up some opinion huh? It's got to be against expert players instead of players that are closer to the apparent skill level, judging by videos, of VFDC players. In my Lau video I posted up clips with examples and it got criticism for being snippets instead of full matches. I posted up a Jeff video and it got criticism for being against a strong player. I post up something closer to the average, with some notes, and it gets criticism for the wolf player not being strong enough or not having enough examples specific to Wolf.

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Here's a video vs one of the strongest players on Xbox Live. You can see many of the general advice tips here.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

No, don't misunderstand me. All I was saying was that the guy wasn't very good. I wasn't knocking your video.

You were the one who said he would eat 99% of NA VF players for breakfast on the shoutbox. A bit later you said the video was like a year and a half old and that's cool. Chances are he's improved much more since then but he was pretty dire in that particular video.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

That might be true. I never said anything about his strength in the post. To SDS...I never said being Taiwanese made him strong, the country had nothing to do with it. It might not be clear and apparently I should give more examples. I deleted the video. I'm tired of explaining the advice I give on videos. I've tried to fast track the development of players using some not so uncommon advice. It's not appreciated or even understood as LA has mentioned. There's very little "Thanks, but" discussion instead of bashing the players or the general gameplay. Get past that and view the tutorial for what it is...examples amidst real gameplay. I'm finally seeing that no matter taken as clips or full videos, matches are the wrong avenue for a tutorial.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Erm there isn't a bloody video?

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

At the end of the day what most contributors would like to see is a little thanks and a dialog that is hopefully free of cynical or sarcastic criticism. Facing a jury of new VF'ers who would benefit most from a tutorial video is a great way for me to make better contributions. Me being a veteran VF'er and having tried to develop a track record of contributions doesn't automatically make my advice correct. I agree with you there. Some time spent here and a track record should earn me, I hope, a little bit of leeway though. At least thats how I perceive most communities and life to work in general. Contributions are about building a relationship with guys who share the same hobby as me.

In the community, I've told you that you act as the judge and you should be aware that your comments carry an exponentially higher weight than that of a typical poster. Your reply to me has the air of a cynical tone mixed in with valid remarks. I told you that I wonder how your future girlfriend, wife or friend would react to the same sort of cynicism if they were trying to offer something helpful over a hobby that you both shared.

In your mind I guess you thought..."well that's Azusabo I wonder why he didn't give better examples and I wonder why he posted that video". You already said that because it was me you expected more. You could have said that in addition to summarizing your entire post in a few sentences and I would have understood you just as clear. Your feelings of value and thanks for the video are lost in your original reply. If I still failed to explain the tutorial clearly, I could totally understand your original reply. A little leeway and restraint would go along way for anyone making contributions.

Please remember that the Judge, the Umpire, the Leader, the Moderator or whatever title you want to call yourself has a lot authority attached to it. When you comment at length, it's like waving a giant stop sign in someones face.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

I think this is a problem we have with VFDC overall. It seems most of just either complain rather than actively discuss something. I will happily include myself in here.
But unfortunately not every good players wants to post or has to.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

(snip)

The way i read this, it's "damned if you do, damned if you don't" for Myke. Seems like you want feedback - but not any kind of feedback - just the feedback you'd like to read.

Note: i've done that too, and i'll probably do it again too,it's hard not to.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

I would gladly discuss about things, and I appreciate whenever someone makes the effort to post new strats and things. I thank Azusabo for his posts. I hope they help someone.

I find it sad however that the emphasis on replies was on the means how Azu tried to express the issues, not whether he was right or wrong.

I havent said anything yet in this thread because strategy issues are something I dont feel like I should comment on, seeing that I dont play versus these days at all. I can't really explore anything new myself at this point as I have nobody to test things with and thanks to Sega there is no record mode in the dojo to help me.

ps. Mykes criticism is valid to a point.

pps. the most noobfriendly method of punishing whiffed throws is a throw because it turns into a 0-frame throw in the case of a whiff. This allows the most time to react. Of course its not the best method because throws can be escaped.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Are you sure about your reply erdraug? I'd like to point you to my first tutorial video, Frustrate Your Opponent.

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/268617/4

Your comments to me were the closest in nature to Myke's post in this thread. I'm certainly not fishing for feedback in a format that's acceptable to me. If you look back at the thread, I responded with as much detail as I possibly could to help you understand my thought process. You're exactly the audience I hope to reach.

There's no damned if you do and damned if you don't for Myke. In your exchange with me in that thread, I was helpful and non-confrontational. I seemed to do a pretty good job explaining things based on your final reply there. That's what I meant by track record leading to a little leeway for me to get that type of exchange rolling. Any defensive tone I took with Myke wasn't to clear my name with the jury as Myke stated, but was to clear my name with the judge. I'm being pretty genuine when I say that I took your criticisms in a different light. My reply to Myke wasn't some fluffy idea that I came up with. As you see, I've eagerly answered any questions from guys like yourself.

I guess many of you are in school. If your classmate made a sarcastic or cynical comment on your project, it would have a different impact on you than if your teacher made the same comment. At least in general, that's how I guess people feel. I hope you understand why I replied in an unusual manner. All those titles I gave Myke...the Judge, Leader, Moderator etc. aren't so far off IMO.

There aren't many people making active contributions and I suggest some leeway be given to those that are. As long as the suggestions in the contributions are subjective and don't contain any absolute ideas, the contributions should lead to helpful conversation. This is why I felt is was so relevant for me to tell Myke that I never made any un-subjective or absolute suggestions and that my advice was fairly common.

I was critically picked on for my delivery method. I have a gripe with someone senior delivering a critical review without considering either my history of trying to improve each video or in my responses to questions. I sent Myke a PM with my general feelings, which were to cut me some slack and give me a break.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

"I want to show you something."[/size]

"Cool."

"Look for X."[/size]

"I don't see it."

"It's right there."[/size]

"I still don't see it."

"You're mean for saying that."[/size]

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Except it went more like:

"I want to contribute something. Look for X."[/size]

"Ok listen, I don't have a problem with X. I still think you could have done much better. The way you presented it is poor, the examples of X aren't clear. I was expecting X to look like XXXXX...One of your X looks correct, but are you sure it's clear you intended X since you input repetitively? Let me show you a surprise. *show surprise*. I'm not sure you showed why using X was important. I'm not sure some parts of X would be useful to your target audience."

"Let me explain how to look at it."[/size]

"I still don't have a problem with X. This doesn't change the fact that the way you present X in your examples is poor.

"You're mean for saying that. Since you don't like how I presented X, I'll delete it. Your review of my contribution was critical, especially coming from someone that people look up to as a leader."[/size]