To the advanced players out there...is VF still fun to you?

I know it may seem like a stupid question, hell after all if it wasn't fun why bother with the game, right?

But with tourneys on the horizon, a reputation to uphold in the VF community, and your own personal standards to live up to, I have to wonder if you guys still get a total thrill out of VF, even after years and years of playing the game, (in all it's versions) looking at framestats, move properties, constantly practising etc. etc.

Does it ever become a chore or a hassle to constantly maintain or improve your game?
Do the "simple" modes like Kumite or Arcade mode hold any attraction at all?
Does "dressing up" your character seem absolutley bloody pointless? /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

In short, is VF a job to you, or do you still have as much fun as the rest of us mere mortals?

 

Heh, something about this post sounds really defensive. Did a vet ruin your day with a snotty reply or something?

I don't think vets would still play or put effort in if there weren't any returns on their hard work. Also, for guys like me, half the fun is in the homework, which is understandably the boring part for a lot of people.

That being said, some people don't seem to get joy strictly from playing, only from the feeling they get after they've won. So they're in it more for winning than for playing, and that kinda creates this vibe that they aren't having any fun. Don't be fooled though, they are... as long as they're winning.

 

[ QUOTE ]
CreeD said:
That being said, some people don't seem to get joy strictly from playing, only from the feeling they get after they've won. So they're in it more for winning than for playing, and that kinda creates this vibe that they aren't having any fun. Don't be fooled though, they are... as long as they're winning.


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So true, and if they're really pissed off, don't dare say something like ''c'mon man it's just a game'' it only seems to piss them off even more. I totally agree with you on this, the game should be fun whether you win or lose, especially when it's casual play. The thing I love about the game is that when you lose, you only have yourself to blame, can't blame it on a glitch or some other bs. Everyone who took the time and effort to learn VF and understand the mechanics should be having fun. Especially advanced players with good competition. Competition = Crazy fun

 

[ QUOTE ]
katana said:

Does "dressing up" your character seem absolutley bloody pointless? /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


[/ QUOTE ] Are you crazy it makes them look cool.

[ QUOTE ]
katana said:
In short, is VF a job to you, or do you still have as much fun as the rest of us mere mortals?


[/ QUOTE ]
Getting paid for practicing and playing VF all day, who wouldn't want this job ? /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]
CreeD said:

Heh, something about this post sounds really defensive. Did a vet ruin your day with a snotty reply or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, I wish I could play some seasoned vets. Sure I'd get creamed, but that's how I'd learn. .
Back in the day when I thought Tekken 3 was the shit, I happened to play a Korean guy who wiped the floor with me. It made me learn really quickly though, and my game improved 100%.
It's just that in my country the VF community is non-existant, so there's no chance to play advanced guys.
Pity.

 

If I replied with what i feel about VF now.... would i be considered an advanced player??? hahahahah

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

I've been at this game competitively since 1994. Almost 10 years ago. Do I still get the same enjoyment? Yes and no. Nothing will replace the feelings I have when I remember the arcade VF2 scene. Nothing. However, I still get together with old regulars and we still compete at a high level and we still have a blast. I can't see that stopping any time soon, to be honest. We don't play as much as we may want to but that's life and we work around it.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

<font color="#ff3366">In short, is VF a job to you, or do you still have as much fun as the rest of us mere mortals?</font>

I'm not an advanced player, but I'll answer anyway. /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

VF is a chore for me. I don't have as much fun with it as I used to. Which is weird, because I put a lot more time into it than I did with VF2 and VF3, but playing those two installments was more fun.

 

So you figure it's less fun because you put more time into it?
Like if you didn't work so hard at being good you could just play and have a good time?

VF4 seems to be the most demanding of the series, and requires a lot of training-mode-style practice. In VF3 there was nifty movement (which is fun to do and practice) but like... practicing EDTEG's is kind of a drag.

It was nice when you only had to worry about one directional throw escape, and when everything had simple guaranteed punishment when blocked, etc. Offensive flowcharts sort of remain the same across various games (attack-or-throw) but there wasn't so much effort demanded of the defender in the older games.

I wonder if stuff outside of gameplay has anything to do with it... i.e. "I had a larger and cooler crowd back then to hang with" or "the graphic leap from 3 to 4 wasn't as jawdropping as from 2 to 3" or "I miss slopes and interesting stage designs".

I've had a theory for a long time that the cheaper a game is, the more fun it is. Like if it's balanced in the sense that every character has unfair, painful bullshit... the game can be fun. I point to VF2 as an example, a few characters could PKG you to death, any of them could get stupid damage off of even a tiny little sidekick float, and simple throws like pai's DDT were horrifying, unescapeable damage. I loved playing it to death and I still do.
VF3, while it was supposed to be more refined, still had 100+ pt TFT's, 100 pt akira float combos, big damage from easy stuff like wolf ssh, P, ssh, pounce or jacky f+P,K, pounce...you get the picture. With only one throw escape and every counterable move being throwable, VF3 was really rough - you fuck up, you lose.

Maybe bungle wants to chime in here with "I told you so!@!@" or something else, because he's a VF2/VF3 vet whose position has always been that VF4 sucks because of the short recovery on moves and the lack of guaranteed punishment for the defender.

 

VF is like chilling... it's something you can do with a group of friends and not worry about the everyday nuances of life. You can bitch about and have fun, you can play seriously and have fun, (apparently) you can get drunk and have fun. It's all about doing what you feel to be best with the game and not always worrying about I won't be the best in the world even though it's a goal (one I have and plan to continue to have). I may not be the master but I have mad fun playing competitively against Dandy J and Madagascar. So to anyone out there, find your groove and live in it.

 

<font color="#ff3366">So you figure it's less fun because you put more time into it?
Like if you didn't work so hard at being good you could just play and have a good time?</font>

That's part of it. I've never practiced so much on any of the other VFs. It gets to be "kind of a drag" after awhile. Like about two years and counting. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Doing EDTEG, struggle practice, combos, movement, etc. almost everyday is like a job. And it would be worth it if my command input were more consistent as a result, but it's not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm whining. But I think I'm at a point where I'm wondering if it's even worth all the practice, drills, and whatnot, if I'll still lose 90% of the time. Playing against good comp is fun and challenging. Losing consistently is not.

 

Dude, obviously I don't have 100% clarity on your progress, but it sounds to me like you're putting too much time into practicing techniques you read on the Internet versus actually playing the game!

I have to admit that it's rough in the U.S. In Japan, there are so many different levels of competition that you can take development of techniques at your own pace... I.e. if you're not good at ETEGEKGTJKG you can find opponents that don't really know how to exploit you for it and have fun. When you find that you want to aspire to another level, then you work on that one technique. Then have fun playing against people on that level. Etc.

What Ryan said before is so true...VF in the U.S. is too academic.

 

[ QUOTE ]
CreeD said:

Maybe bungle wants to chime in here with "I told you so!@!@" or something else, because he's a VF2/VF3 vet whose position has always been that VF4 sucks because of the short recovery on moves and the lack of guaranteed punishment for the defender.


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While, I don't know the recovery frames for VF3, in Evo, most whiffed moves are quite punishable even after an evade (17 frames). The only hard whiffed moves to punish are , + and perhaps elbows. With all the other moves, you have ample time to use a quick launcher. For example with Sarah, if I see any whiffed move outside the ones mentioned above, I will usually get a free combo or at least +. Reacting to a whiffed animation takes time so if your manual dexterity is lacking then punishing the opponent in this situation can be difficult.

 

This sort of chimes in with ice9's post (wtf!), but you have too much time invested in the frames/training mode/movies area and not enough in the human comp area. I have some ideas for you.

When I first went to FLA and faced imf and blondie I was getting a little antsy because I started out losing. After a few days I was able to win enough to not want to bash my head into the bathroom mirror. The REASON I was able to do that is because I played against them for long stretches until I learned specific patterns they relied on and came up with ways to counter them.

The methods I used to stop the patterns weren't super clever or the ideal punishment, but they allowed me to take a common situation and make it an advantage. An example would be finding a way to stop falling for blondie's favorite f+P --> bb --> P+K combo trick. Simply not running into the beat knuckle combo is a little victory for me... whether or not I correctly punished it. Almost everyone has tricks or flowcharts that you can exploit. Sumeragi's lau likes to follow an elbow major counter with either another elbow or throw. If I were halfway decent I'd EDTEG there but because I rely on yomi more than dexterity, I just use goh's df+P+K, which beats both options. When Shadowdean gets up from a TR, he does shun's dodge attack, and I run forward and hold guard praying he'll do it so I can get a free stpm combo when I block it. All of these players eventually adapt to what you're doing, but in the meantime the wins you can eke out before they adapt feel good.

To that end, I suggest not only playing, but really really watching when you're off the machine and the others are playing. The common denominator for the best japanese players isn't perfect EDTEG, it's yomi. If you recognize that eric likes to always do X after move Y, you can bait him into doing Y just so you can punish it. If you can do it in the middle of a match, that's so much the better.

Good luck - don't give up on VF. If you're losing all day to imf and blondie you can always drive to virginia and play me /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

ice-9 said:

Dude, obviously I don't have 100% clarity on your progress, but it sounds to me like you're putting too much time into practicing techniques you read on the Internet versus actually playing the game!

This is such a true comment. Really spot on.
I'm one of those guys who goes home and reads FAQ's, framestats, practises combo's and all that till my eyes and fingers are sore!!
In short, I'm fairly well-versed in all the theory of the game, and what to do when.
Thing is, human comp. doesn't respond they way you'd like, and often do things you just weren't prepared to handle.
I often found myself explaining all the technical aspects to a newbie, sounding oh so knowledgeable, but come fight time, I'd be struggling to beat a guy who has barely played the game!! WTF??? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Theory means shit if you can't actually fight, if you're used to the training dojo but not real competition. Now, at least I can back up my knowledge with some decent performances against my buddies - simply because I get to play them often.

 

I think that VF is all about the fun, when I’m reading that people are getting bored by the game I always wonder why they just don’t go out and just do something else for a while.
Go out and do sports, watch a movie, fuck your girlfriend or whatever just that you do something to get your mind on something else.
They game is meant to be fun, when it gets boring take a break and do something else.

I started out with VF when the Japanese Ver.C was released on PS2 about 18 months ago, before that I used to play lots of different games, but now 18 months later I almost don’t play anything else expect for VF and Winning Eleven once in a while.
And the reason for this is because the game is just so fucking fun and addictive.

But the best thing is to do several things, not just play games or only read books or whatever.
I have always been interested in computers and all sorts of media and use those tools to be creative.
And after I started out with VF, I have found a new way to use these tools to be creative.
Even after 3 months of play with Kage, I made a combo video, even though it turned out to be the worst piece of crap that I have ever made (I watch it every time I need a laugh), it was a good way to keep interests and use Virtua Fighter as a tool to learn new things.

And now 18 months later, I (we) have met several new friends and people, I have travelled to another country to make new friends\contacts and to run tournaments.

And under the last tournament, I and Netrom made a DVD that has made it all the way to the big names in Famitsu Japan, and people like Bun Bun Maru have watched it.
Yes they probably had a good laugh watching our matches and reactions during the game, but that’s what this game is all about.
It is about making new friends, and having fun and also try and use VF to make progress in many other areas as well IMO.
Like now I’m out playing football (soccer) every Friday with people that I met mainly thru our main interest in Virtua Fighter.

So that is why I advise especially people in the U.S.A to go to tournaments\ gatherings when ever they have the chance, just because that you guys are the once who can make a real difference when it comes to how Virtua Fighter will be in the future in the Western world.
That’s why I was a little bummed out to see that the NY tournament\gathering turned out the way it did, I don’t want to get involved in anything related to that I’m just saying.

Anyway, have fun with the game, even to this day I still have problems writing commands and doing “EDTEGâ€Â, but I can still give you a little challenge whoever you are.

Oh btw I'm NOT an advanced VF player,
“It’s just all abot being Humble†/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

laters

 

I have to say that I think this is a great post. Thanks, Raider. You hit the nail on the head.

I just want to add to this a bit - especially from a standpoint of Virtua Fighter in North America. I have traveled a lot for this game over the last 9 years. And I have met some of the nicest people. I've met complete tits out there too, don't get me wrong - but the relationships that are formed through the game have been an invaluable part of my life. I wouldn't be typing this right now if I didn't truly believe this.

I think that right now the North American VF world is going through a paradigm shift. One which I hope will carry it upwards and onwards. As a small community of players who truly love this game, we need to be a cohesive unit. A team. Sure, a team in which there exists subgroups, but for the most part we need to be supportive of all the facets of VF that are stirring in the US and in Canada. There will always be skeletons in the closet, but NAVF will eventually move beyond this provided that no one goes at it single-handedly. The more supportive we are of each other, the better our scene will be in the long run.

I stated earlier that I'm still around because I love this game and that the fun is still there. I'm very competitive by nature and I strive to be the best I can be at VF. I know what I can achieve and I optimize how much time I can devote to getting there. At the same time, I continue to try and be an integral part of the development of our scene. Our scene is growing - slowly - but it is growing nonetheless and the opportunities of late with foreign players on NA soil will help in broadening our view of VF in NA.

Again - the more we support each other within this framework, the more fun VF will be, and the more rewarding the individual efforts will feel.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Yeah, what llany said, cheers.

Half of my RL friends started as internet friends via VF.

Even the RL friends who started out in real life, I became friends with them because of gaming - like one of my best buds used to the ride the schoolbus with me and showed me his first copy of VG&CE (video games and computer entertainment) magazine. Now we NEVER play video games together but we still shoot pool and hang out. It's a good thing.

I can imagine playing VF and not having fun on the short term, but I can't imagine getting sick enough of it to just quit out of frustration. If anyone's thinking of that, go to gatherings like raider says. You'll not only get better, you can at least get all the other bonuses that come from hanging out with a bunch of dudes who are about your age and have a similar interest.

 

the thing with VF is you are never done.You will never fully master it, i have been playing it since it's early days too, but I still cannot beat certain modes and can't do all the combos, you always have someone out there to beat you,just study your guy. I love this series because of it's depth, this game is so technical and precise and fun, that since evo came out, i have not played another game yet, last time i popped in my McsC 2 cd was WWOOHHH!!, right now was when i stopped playing VF to play some SC2. VF characters are always changing, so just when you are unbeatable, the next vf comes along, adds new moves, and re works certain aspects, you gotta change, and rework youe skills. losing in my opinion bothers the hell outta me, but n the long run, i see the benefits. Too bad people now a days stick like flys to crap to easy, flashy crappy fighters out there.

 

The more time I spend with the game. The more I love it. Just search for what is fun for you and go with that, nothing else.