1st 5 Losses in Quest with Lei-Fei

when i put the computer dojo difficulty to 5 i thought it was still VERY weak. Much much much weaker than quest mode level expert opponents. Anyone else feel this way?

 

I think it seems that way cause you dont have to worry about a health Bar... OR YOUR JUST THAT GOOD... lol

 

its definitely much weaker. on lvl 5 dojo there is a window present on rising where the computer will never guard, this doesn't exist on level expert quest. It also seems a little more passive in offense, and more forgiving at + frames.

if you try to practice responses to having your biggest moves blocked in quest expert, the comp will always throw, or deal out a big damage combo that you are completely vulnerable to. in dojo, often times, teh comp won't retaliate at all.

at least thats how it works on my disc.

 

I have recently began to question the worth of my dojo time. I've always used it to try to recognise moves and strings of characters i don't know, set it to level 5,everything else set to randomn and practise for hours.
Up tp a point this is fine and its good for some basics and combo practise.
However, after some beatings from SDS overfiend and Seidon's Jacky i tried this same approach.The cpu Jacky constantly does PP,bP to side slide shuffle,there are no flash sword kicks and the beat knuckle is never use on its own.Obviously when i went back to fight people with my new found knowledge i got fucked again.
I'm also weak against BT Goh, BT Pai, Lei fei stance changes, all charge moves and tick throws and this may be the result of getting too accustomed to dojo cpu(or just being a bit shit at basics)
In my opinion dojo is excellent to a certain stage in your developement, quest mode on expert is next, and then human opponents and mind games finally. Or preferably all 3 at once?.
Have fun

 

Training against CPU has this problem, there are things CPU never does.

 

After seeing you guys talk about level 5 dojo I decided to put it on. It was quite frankly quite a joke. I selected Akira v Eileen (in an attempt to reaction P her front flip moves) and to practice ETEG and TEG.

I played for about an hour and after about 10mins in I noticed I could just repeat 66KK over and over with Akira on their wakeup because Eileen would either choose to abare with K (wtf?) or just not block at all.

Complete waste of time to be honest, when I went to practice ETEG after cpu blocking SDE I would get failed evades all the time because the cpu simply does not retaliate.

The ONLY thing the cpu done which was decent practice was when I would youhou/KNEE and it got blocked the cpu would throw me so I got some TEG training in but that's it.

From this experience (and also from what the rest of you have agreed upon) I would not suggest trying to get better at the game playing vs cpu dojo level 5.

The other major downfalls of the cpu is that it is not human, the cpu will not adapt to anything you will do and if you are trying to incorporate mind games or conditionment the cpu simply will not have it.

 

IMO, dojo 5 is only a good thing for training offensive automatisms in situation, like practicing guaranteed combos after a launcher, a crumple or a wall stagger.

Concerning quest mode in expert, is it just me or the cpu cheats by reading the inputs from time to time?

 

I dont think so, since you can beat it by delays in the case of for example ETTEG's. CPUs execution with expert level difficulty highranks is obscenely good though. If it would read inputs it would escape the throw only when I attempted it.

 

I like to use level 5 in dojo for hit checking. Of course hit checking goes out the window online if you'r eplaying in anything less than pristine conditions.

 

I believe it has to, as there isn't sufficient time for the AI to process on reaction (using image processing & statistics). It probably doesn't always throw escape because the number of escapes will be random (above 2 on very hard), and the escapes choices will use a RoShamBo styled algorithm coupled with potential damage; hence why I've not had Akira's + escaped in memory.

I believe the AI does learn in the game; so if worked all the time in quest mode with Akira on Eileen, and then, you worked through quest with Eileen, the Akiras' would incorporate that move in against, you provided the statics favour its' inclusion. This then allows you to train the AI Eileen with a statiscally beneficial counter strategy.

I'm sure the Akira on both my PS3 & 360 has incorporated my own style into its' strategy for our Akira Vs Akira fights; but it also has the advantage of probably reading inputs and perfect execution of moves, usually requiring me to adapt my style to win, on very hard mode.

Can anyone, who has completed quest mode on PS3 with Shun Di confirm that their Shun now drinks in between the rounds he wins? The untrained Shun I fight never does that on PS3, but does it all the time on the 360.

 

Of course CPU reads the inputs, I mean, thats how the game works. Question is whether it will abuse that aspect.

No matter what the CPU's execution, there are some things it never does. It will never block the followups of Akiras f,b+P+G throw for example, so you can combo it ad infinitum.

 

KOF 12's AI is godly

 

You have to realise many of the good players have "lost" 100times more games than you have probably played. It more about knowing why you lose as opposed to finding out ways to win.

For example simple offense rules like max combos and guaranteed combos. Do you sacrifice 2% damage by doing a basic combo, or memorise a stance/position/weight/character specific variation to gain a few pts extra dmg.

From a defense perspective can you identify and apply defense techniques such as spacing/distance, dodge/circulars, high/mid/low blocking, guard breaks, sabaki, counters?

Also advanced defensive techniques like ETEG, fuzzy, etc

If you want to be top tier hopes that some food for thought.

When lose the proper response is not that the other player played better but rather you made mistakes. So learning the fundamentals certainly helps



Some other things like setups and traps. Like:

- anti rising kicks both mid/low
- stance properties
- sabaki traps
- crumble combos
- how to get up from the floor

My dojo from VF4 is a worthwhile read. Then you can move on to the professional stuff such as blackbook etc. The thing is the pro stuff is written for good/great players comfortable with the basics.

http://virtuafighter.com/view.php?section=vf4&chara=lei&file=ken_lei_introduction.html

Lei Fei Dojo
http://virtuafighter.com/view.php?section=vf4&chara=lei&file=ken_lei_introduction.html


The dojo doesn't have all the moves but really the only difference is:

bokutai
reverse tiger stance


The new stances are really good btw.

Anyway good luck!

 

Concerning Lei Fei's stances... i thought you played Lei Fei yourself don't you?

Concerning BT Goh, you might want to try Lei Fei's sabaki to deal with his most frequently used attacks out of BT: the side turning punch, the jab and the vertical elbow. It'll net you a couple of head crumples before your opponent catches on.

Concerning BT Pai, well, as long as you block the move that leaves her BT, Lei Fei's should take care of evertyhing she tries. In fact it's fast enough to beat some of her BT moves even if you get hit with the initial move.

Concerning charged moves i think everybody gets trapped by them once in a while, same with tick throws, plus lag helps those a bit so don't be discouraged

 

Thanks I will keep all that in mind... I have since recently got a Real Arecade Pro EX and Switched to Lau. After playing with Lei Fei I realize y he is a very advanced character. . . actually playing with him made me feel more comfortable to play with other characters, I guess it is because Lei Fei is More stance heavy than anyone else in the game.

 

I dunno about that, Shun and Vanessa have a lot of fucking about with stance to take into account.

And switching to Lau...for shame

 

I know ... So i switched to Kage and that is doing better than Lau lol

 

Due to the fact that Lei Fei is so unorthodox, he's generally regarded as the "wrong" character to start playing VF with. Sure it's easy to become acquainted with him and plow through other VF initiates using other characters but it's also easy to reach a standstill, a plateau if you will, due to the fact that you will be lacking the fundamentals.

Picking Lau or Kage is a much better choice in that regard. Lau is suposed to lack a 17-ish frame mid launcher though, so that probably explains why you're having somewhat better success with Kage.

Plus, he's a ninja, that always helps.

 

Lei is generally considered to be 'wrong' character to start VF with because you dont have to learn the basic defense of fuzzy guard and evade-throwescapes with him in the same way as with for example Kage, Jacky, Akira.

 

I started with Wolf, I still think he's a great choice for beginners.