A theory about level of playing

@JHow77 I'm not going to go into my theory on mastering loss, but what I will ask you is what if you're playing with say, 15 or 20 people that are 2,3, 4 times as good as you are, and without the occasional mercy match there is no way for you to win, wouldn't you still enjoy playing the games!

Are you saying that if you know right off the bat that you're out matched that you won't play, or you'll play but won't enjoy the games?

I've been in more than a few scenarios where I knew I had no chance of winning, the players had in some cases 5 times my skill, 2 or 3 times my speed, and far far more confidence than I had, but I still played and I enjoyed the game. I think out of 50-60 rounds I might have lucked up and won 2 or 3.

Like I said, I won't go into my theory on mastering loss, but I will say something about winning. Sometimes its just an honor to play against ppl who have mastered the game better than you (and there's always someone who has mastered the game better than you). In those cases its not about winning. Its about appreciating skill sets that you haven't acheived yet, or skillsets that you might never achieve. Its about enjoying the beauty and elegance of a master (even if you lose). Sometimes the fun is in the fact that you were actually in the match and managed to get off 1 or 2 of your little combos before you were dispatched.

Sometimes the fun is simply in the interaction between master and pupil, sifu and disciple, boyfriend and girlfriend

Not only is winning not everything, sometimes it can be very very empty, especially when you get so good, that no one wants to play you, not even your best mates. Everybody's playin VF until you come into the room, and then all of a sudden ppl start sayin their goodbyes but once you leave, the fun starts up again, yep winning is not all that it is cracked up to be

 

Your strength is your weakness.

 

@masterpo

I definitely agree with everything you say! And that is a very interesting point to bring up. Frankly the only time I've ever been in an overly outmatched situation like you mention was in Japan, and in both Virtua Fighter and Street Fighter. I am proud to say that I can hang with the majority of Japanese players, but the best Japanese players I cannot touch.

You're right that when you have no hope you then have to try to have fun in a different way, whether it's just the fact that you are playing against greatness, or just getting occasional tricks and combos to hit.

While playing high skilled opponents (the ones that I'm not severely outmatched) my fuel to win definitely keeps thing entertaining, and in my opinion keeps my chances of being in contention and a challenge much more possible. If I get tricked, I vow that I won't let it happen again. Something that comes to mind is the feeling you get when you've almost been perfected (excellented) and then tell yourself that you're going to come back and win the round, and do! That's a great feeling.

Conversely if I am in a situation where there is no hope at all, I still try my best, maybe get a round or two or a match or two, but ultimately chalk it up to being fortunate and privilaged to have played against the best.

Maybe this is partly satisfying my own ego when I tell myself this, but in the past, especially during the VF3TB days, the only experience I had was against locals at our Minneapolis arcade, and then when I spent 3 months in Japan that same summer I was holding my own against almost everyone I played, except Chibita. So as for the ego part, I used to tell myself, heck, even if I do lose here and there, or badly occasionally, I must be doing something right if I can contend with the best while only having experience playing people from Minnesota (and the Chicago crew a few times =D).

I will absolutely say that winning isn't everything, but it is the desire to win which can set skill sets apart. There is nothing wrong however with just wanting to play for fun. And now that I think about it there are only a few games where I'm fueled to win, but there are a ton of games that I can just play for fun.

I think maybe the games that I seem to inherently be better at from the beginning are the ones that fuel the winning desire more, because if you think about you already have an edge. The ones that comes to mind would be:

Street Fighter
Virtua Fighter
Mario Kart
Mario Kart 64
Worms


And that's it! Everything else I'm pretty casual with. Thanks masterpo for invoking some philisophical thoughts I hadn't really delved into before! =)

 

Yea I hear ya mang.

Dam, I need to find some of that green you somkin on lol. Nah i'm just fukin whicha.

 

Tic-tac-toe is mathematically flawed, as best play from both parties leads to a draw. Technically chess is similar, but due to numerous more positions, human cant remember or figure out the best play.

(comparison: tic-tac-toe has 19,683 possible board layouts, In chess the number of legal positions is estimated to be between 10^43 and 10^47 (a provable upper bound))

Rock-paper-scissors however has a skill element. I remember that in Magic the gathering cc game that I play, in tournament play the players are supposed to use some random method to decide who goes first. I remember that the head judges forbade using rock-paper-scissors for it, because it is not completely random.

About TOPIC:
I kind of agree with the topic post, but not completely. Firstly, Hazz is correct in that not everyone has the same ability for learning. Secondly, the formula implies that people keep learning indefinitely, however I am willing to imply that a 20 year old VF-player would beat a 90 year old VF player. Humans start to regress at some point.

(ps. I quoted wikipedia, blame it for mistakes)

 

I definitely agree with this. But one thing is for sure, when I am 90 I will still be able to do both a dragon punch and a SPOD!

Anyone else wanna take the challenge??

 

@Manjimaru you may imply that a 20 year old VF-player would beat a 90 year old VF player, but of course, you do realize that it depends on the skill of both. A 20 year old noob, or intermediate player can get destroyed by a 90 year VF Master that has managed to stay relatively healthy( still has moderate reflexes, has arms, and hands,etc)

I have been beaten by VF-players 20 years younger than me, but I have also destroyed VF players than I am 30 years older than, and I mean destroyed! I work out, I play jazz piano, when not gaming these days, I constantly work on improving my reflexes (where I can) and practicing hand/eye coordination I see no reason why I won't be able to kick ass well into my 70's and 80's of course that assumes that my console is still working by then, and my copies of VF5 are not too scratched

Don't you know, its the old Kung Fu masters, those cats with those long white eye brows and long white beards, that are rumored to be 2-3 hundred years old, that really kick the serious ass

 

You know those rumors were just fables right; as in not real.

 

I strangely either get destroyed much higher ranks or play really well and it's close either way. I play badly against button mashers (brad and lei). I try and watch the opponent and I believe I do see a little things that I could take advantage off. When you loose alot online you have to disconnect from the desire to win so bad. If not then I would get so angry I would smash my tv with the joystick.

 

I remember playing you yesterday, I think. But I don't remember what character or who won, probably you. Anyways, I also tend to play badly against mashers, although if I can parry or reverse what they keep on doing it's easier. While high skill is definitely an asset, there is so much room for chance that sometimes I think the best plan is no set plan at all.

 

Hi my psn name is londondude and I was playing as jacky. Im sure alot of us have met online already.

 

What character do you play? Your tag is familiar.

 

i guess my feeling as someone new to VF and a long time player of a lot of fighting games, [Street fighter mainly] is that we all have a level we shoot for. Like i want to win, but i also respect that i don't put in the time, or have the dexterity to play on a high level. What i personally shot for is having a strong basic game because i firmly feel that can carry you past or too be even with 60-70% of a player base.

I think level of play directly stems from ones own personal goals. I'm not saying i would be some beast at any game if i put a ton of time in just one, i just know for sure you are not going to reach that top 1% with out that time.

Someone like Justin Wong went to MLG and entered MK SC and kof, and while his basic skill level helped him out he still got beat by people who train full time. It always comes back to time put in.

That being said i will still try to beat someone far better then me. my friend is a very good SF4 player. an amazing sagat. i've run sets with him and went 0-30 and still enjoyed it. Hunger, love of the game, or plain old plain old dumb? all i know is for all those l's i held to my chest with him it felt good, and the few times i get a win on him is worth it.

i'm getting off topic now haha anyway peace out peeps!

 

Aoi.

 

Now I understand why I've never been good at VF. I enjoy playing, not necessarily winning. People that tie their self worth into winning at the game will always be better.