adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG results)

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

The problem is, this is the definition of what "balanced" even means. If the character mattered more, the game would be unbalanced, and it would essentially be impossible for someone using a low tier character to win.

That's it, that's all ice-9 meant... by your own definition he was right, and the game is balanced. Saying the game is balanced does not somehow detract from adam's victory, he's still an amazing player. In fact, quite the opposite, winning in a balanced game is harder, since you don't get things like random favourable character matchups to carry you to the top of the bracket.

 

The larger the cast the more difficult it is to balance a multiplayer game (the more options, and situations, and so on). But Virtua Fighter had always had the highest game balance making tier rankings less interesting and less decisive for good/bad match-ups. Ice-9's point is pretty valid, in my opinion.

 

My sentiments exactly

 

so, is this tier list still valid? or some characters rank changed? (based on Ver. C)

taken from: http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/175239/fpart/1

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

I completely agree with the above...I knew someone was going to point it out but I didn't want to overcomplicate the message.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ice-9 you saying the game is balance just because Adam won is like me saying the game is unbalanced when I won Buy.com unless you forgot I beat you with a Character I didn't know anything about just because I knew he was strong what made it worst was that he was your main character lol..I was trying to repeat that at NYG by picking Jeffery but lost</div></div>

No it's not the same. If you believe a game is balanced and that a player's skill/yomi/determination matters most, then that's what you won with not the fact that you picked Kage.

But that's a bad example, because at that point in time let's be honest none of us really knew the game very well. In fact, your Kage was the first Kage I ever played against that actually used VF5 moves, which I knew how to dish out but don't know how to defend. (Shang played VF5 Kage like it was VF4 lol). So yeah, I was quite unhappy you used Kage after losing with Jacky, because I was very confident about beating your Jacky given our gathering/tournament record.

Sorias and Leonard, thanks so much for understanding my point. I don't feel so alone any more.

Some posters here seem to imply my post is taking away from Adam's win...quite the contrary, I have nothing but total respect and love for Adam, and I am extremely happy he won with Jeffry because now people cannot say shit about character selection. In this game, you win with skill and yomi and Adam proved that in spades.

The end.

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

Try beating Jeffrey with Lion

Congratz to AdamYuki!

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

i just want some people who complain about the balance to let me know what IS a balanced fighting game? Has there ever been one?
The game is balanced, end of story. It's a balanced fighting game. You may struggle against a particular opponent, or like me u may find sarah and lion to be the 2 toughest with blaze a close 3rd. Just cause u struggle doesn't equal bad balance. Is it perfectly balanced, no. That's impossible, but it is balanced. If u don't like it, don't host matches --always search and only join and play mirror matches. Problem solved, you've just created for yourself the worlds first perfectly balanced fighting game. Doh, fucking lag.

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

here's a thought:

every game is balanced!!! only......if you have SIIIIIICK skills, im talking going to a mountain and playing NOTHING but that game kinda skills.

lets say dural is allowed at tourneys and equal skill players are in. now the finals come in and someone beats someone who was using dural. is the game balanced? why is dural banned?

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

Saul is it your bday? Happy birthday man!!

C'mon, it should be understood by now that no game is perfectly balanced. No one least of all me is advocating that. The sickest MvC2 player in the world will never win any tournament of note with a team of Roll/Dan/Servbot.

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

haha thanks ice.

well i was just making a general question cause i was curious, wasnt really making any point /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

You were the one using a bad example from your first post.

The problem is your stating that the VF5 is "balanced" because Adam won a tournament with Jeffry. (a supposed low tier character)

First error is you are basing your point off of one tournament. NYG7 singles only had 23 contestants. IMO Adam's skill level well over exceeds those than the rest of the combatants (except for 3: CIDKID, Denkai and Konjou_Akira)

Everyone at NYG7 Adam included is still learning VF5. Adam just has a better grasp at the game than all of NAVF at the moment. The few people in the VF4 era that could best him are not active or are living overseas.

But Adam is not invincible, he did not do well in the team tournament and in the exhibition team match against Switchnation.

Second error is you alleged that Jeffry is C-tier. He was placed that in early rankings of VF5. He's been ranked up since then to middle of a B-Class. IMO, I think he is above Goh which would put him at top of B-Class. Jeffry only needs to land a CH knee to take close to half damage in a followup combo. Plus due to his heavyweight status its harder to deal damage to him. Adam knows this full well and takes advantage of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDfC5ioO4TI&fmt=18
Here is a vid of a MVC2 game: Justin Wong (best in the world) vs. Sinity (best of UK). Justin defeats Sinity by using a team consisting of two of the worst characters in a game of a roster of 54. Is MVC2 a "balanced" game? Absolutely not! But by watching this vid Jeff your reasoning would say otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0deim0FKD7g&fmt=18
Here is a SBO 3S tournament match of Justin Wong and Ricky Ortiz [top US players using top tier characters] lose to Kuroda [outstanding player using Q {low tier}] Is 3S "balanced"? Some kooks would says yes due to the parry ability but clearly the 3 top characters (Yun, Chun Li and Ken) dominate the rest of the cast and has been proven in several tournaments.

To wrap this up, I'll say what no one has said yet. IMO VF5 is not as balanced as the different versions of VF4. I'm no expert in VF3 but I would think that even it is better balanced than VF5. VF5 S/A characters are much better than the rest of the cast IMO. No one is arguing that skill within the player matters most in VF but to say that character selection plays no part is just silly.

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

Happy B-day, SD!

Anyway Dural was banned for the same reason as M. Bison (I think). They're the boss characters. Dural isn't selectable anyway at first. Jinpachi wasn't even selectable until PS3 DR, and even then he had to be toned down.

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

I don't know what defines a "balance" fighting game, but I know a broken one when I see one or play one. VF5 is a solid game, with a solid engine. When it comes to match ups, some people are just to afraid to use "machi" to certain characters, instead, they go head first. VFnumbers proves this when he plays against, Goh, Wolf and Jeff. Even Akira at times. He uses he stands to keep away from this fighters, and combining Lei's sidesteping stands makes it very difficult to get close to him. Thats why I chose El Blaze against him during team tourny. Because I had a better chance getting on his grill then Wolf. Remember "Truth might be in the pudding, but the pudding is in you"Wow, thats deep.

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem is your stating that the VF5 is "balanced" because Adam won a tournament with Jeffry. (a supposed low tier character)

First error is you are basing your point off of one tournament. NYG7 singles only had 23 contestants. IMO Adam's skill level well over exceeds those than the rest of the combatants (except for 3: CIDKID, Denkai and Konjou_Akira)</div></div>

Didn't Adam also win a couple of WCG stuff? That played into it, though not explicitly.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone at NYG7 Adam included is still learning VF5. Adam just has a better grasp at the game than all of NAVF at the moment. The few people in the VF4 era that could best him are not active or are living overseas.

But Adam is not invincible, he did not do well in the team tournament and in the exhibition team match against Switchnation.</div></div>

OK...so if you're saying Adam's win isn't all that great because the competition around him isn't all that great...yeah, OK, I guess that would negate my original point.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second error is you alleged that Jeffry is C-tier. He was placed that in early rankings of VF5. He's been ranked up since then to middle of a B-Class. IMO, I think he is above Goh which would put him at top of B-Class. Jeffry only needs to land a CH knee to take close to half damage in a followup combo. Plus due to his heavyweight status its harder to deal damage to him. Adam knows this full well and takes advantage of this.</div></div>

Good point that he is considered B not C in Version C. So, you're waiting for a Sarah or Lion player to win before conceding anything? Someone like Fuudo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDfC5ioO4TI&fmt=18
Here is a vid of a MVC2 game: Justin Wong (best in the world) vs. Sinity (best of UK). Justin defeats Sinity by using a team consisting of two of the worst characters in a game of a roster of 54. Is MVC2 a "balanced" game? Absolutely not! But by watching this vid Jeff your reasoning would say otherwise.</div></div>

I don't know much about MvC2, Justin, or Sinity. Did Justin use this team to win the entire tournament or was it a one match deal? Are UK MvC2 players any good, or is "Best of UK" in MvC2 like saying "Best of Indonesia" in VF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0deim0FKD7g&fmt=18
Here is a SBO 3S tournament match of Justin Wong and Ricky Ortiz [top US players using top tier characters] lose to Kuroda [outstanding player using Q {low tier}] Is 3S "balanced"? Some kooks would says yes due to the parry ability but clearly the 3 top characters (Yun, Chun Li and Ken) dominate the rest of the cast and has been proven in several tournaments.</div></div>

Did Kuroda win the tournament with Q? How do Justin Wong and Rick Ortiz rank in the pantheon of the world's 3S players? I mean...is Kuroda's win an upset or did people expect him to win? Sorry for all these questions as I lack context.

Anyway, I've probably exceeded my quota on reasonable posts for this thread. I wanted to make a simple point that skills trump character selection in VF5, but maybe Adam's win isn't that big of a deal after all. Maybe the reasons he won was because Jeffry is a B not C tier character and because the competition sucked.

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

At the end of the day, we weren't there to experience the whole tourney, why not just stick to congratulating the winner? So many things could have happened that we didn't get to see.

If there's a need to prove that character selection is never an issue to victory, Fuudo has already long done it with Lion. Making comments like this stirs endless and pointless arguements. It's like a 'see i told you so' kinda comment.

Like it or not, everyone of us is gonna get our ass kicked by the tetsujins using ANY character in Japan.

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

You underestimate my awesome Danny.

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

Kara palms for the win eh?

Anyone care to tell me why America is the only country that puts so much time into MvC?

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

How this went from a NYG results thread to a one man defining the balance of a game thread, I don't know. But this thread is dumb. Its not any different from the other VF balance threads that pop up. Shit its gone so far as to use other games as comparisons to show that one person proves the balance of another game. Really?

/fail

 

Re: adamYUKI proves VF is balanced (was NYG result

Okay, I'll put the last stupid-ass nail in the coffin then: