All Round Escape (ARE)

They are the same. Both techniques will beat a non-delayed mid attack/throw. There will only be a diff if your opponent delayed his attack, but you are screwed if your opponent delays his attack, anyway.

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What you described, ECD->FC move, if performed while you are behind something let say 6 frames, you will eat any kind of throw attacks being thrown at you, since you will not be able to cancel the evade fast enough. If you perform the ARE technique, you will beat any type of throw with a FC move, but if they did a linear attack, you will evade it. It's clear to see that you didn't fully understand the potential of this technique. It is much more superior to ECD->FC move. It may be hard to grasp this idea since it sounds too good to be true.

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Incorrect. Both techniques will not work when the player is 5 or more frames behind, and both techniques will avoid nitaku situations when one is at -4 or better. The reason is that the window for buffering in the dodge into ECD is not sufficient when you are at -5 or worse.

You can try this for yourself on the PS2. Play as Lau, program the cpu to counter with either throw or elbow. Do his sidekick, then dodge --> FC attack(or use ARE). I guarantee you will get thrown even if you input the command with lightning speed and good timing. The only way to avoid getting thrown is to buffer in the command earlier, but then, you will now eat his strikes because you won't get the successful dodge.

See? They are pretty much similar. Anyway, this is my last post on this thread, believe what you will.

 

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They are the same. Both techniques will beat a non-delayed mid attack/throw.

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Why do you not understand that these two techniques are NOT the same.

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The reason is that the window for buffering in the dodge into ECD is not sufficient when you are at -5 or worse.


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This is exactly what I said in my last post. Which is what distinquishes ARE from ECD->FC move.

Well, good to see you stop posting since your information will not help people trying to learn ARE as it is supposed beat out the throw/linear attack guess game in this situation. I'm really sorry to have to say this, but you simply can not execute ARE if you are getting thrown in this situation. Just because you can't execute it doesn't mean ARE does not work. This technique was demonstrated to many of us at the last NY gathering, and it is that powerful.

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that's not what I mean myke, you are missing like every single one of my posts in this thread lol. I am saying that if Alucard is getting thrown, he obvious can not do the ARE technique correctly. I should have said "If you are getting thrown while you are doing ARE, you are not doing it correctly. It's kind of funny, what you are saying to me now based on your misunderstanding is what I was trying to say to Alucard, which he has missed the entire point of the thread....

Also, what kazu showed us effectively worked in situations where ECD could not evade the throw. We also saw variation where a standing jab was used. There is no evade animation at all. I don't think it is a "variation" of ARE, it's just the same thing. Unlike ECD where there exist a half whiffed evade animation. In Lau's case, it's like an instant FC move.

I think I should elaborate on something your first post wasn't clear on.. The ARE does NOT contitute a counter attack in the technique. It is simply combining an evade with an attack. Which in effect will evade a linear attack OR beat a throw if that is what the opponent executes. This is somewhat of a bug I think, cause a normal ECD->attack shows a whiffed evade into CD and then into attack when done normally. ARE on the other hand when done correctly, looks like an attack by itself whether it's a jab or FC attack, there is not other animation, except for a slight jerk before the attack. The counter attack you tacked on in your initial post is just something that's optional. So I don't know what's the fuss of everyone saying a lp will beat out standing palm whatever. You can follow it with anything for all that matters. In the case of a delayed attack, this is unpredictable, you are not exactly screwed if the opponent does a delayed attack when you are doing ARE, but you are throwing an attack yourself if they delay. The outcome is not definite, since you might interrupt their delayed attack or the opponent was crouched, or whatever. ARE is simply a technique to avoid any throw or linear attack mix up in a situation where you are behind in a few frames. I think I've said this too many times... for those that understands it, good.

 

Yes it's true, there is almost no whiffed evade animation when ARE is done correctly, it is like it's canceled instantly. You don't see it at all, but you really did cancel an evade. Which is why shou gave the example of lau, if when you execute it correctly, lau does an instant FC attack. It does sound too good to be true doesn't it. Which is why I think it's kind of hard to understand this technique. I didn't believe it until we all saw it done....

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Dude, what the HECK are you talking about? This ARE stuff seemed pretty straightforward to me until I read your post.

There are only two outcomes in Myke's example:
1. Lau elbows: Akira does a successful dodge, avoiding the elbow and
2. Lau throws: Akira does an unsuccessful dodge canceled into crouch dash , ducking the throw

Either way, there's always a dodge...it's just a matter of it being successful or not. What you're saying is that there is no dodge in the second outcome, but that doesn't make sense at all. Akira's recovery from a blocked DE is independent of what Lau does in outcome 1 or 2. You say it's a bug...that's possible, but it's also possible that whatever you saw being demonstrated may not have been perfect all the time.

As an aside...who really cares if the unsuccessful dodge comes out in outcome 2 or not? Akira beats the nitaku guessing game either way.

Finally, I have to agree wtih Alucard that this ARE technique is nothing more than a varation of the ECD-to-avoid-nitaku-at-small-disadvantage technique that Myke transcribed from Arcadia many months ago. What you decide to tack on after the ECD is up to you: LP/standing palm or an FC attack; they both accomplish similar things.

 

I believe Srider was talking about the 2/8 P/K 33 technique not the techinque Myke described in the first post. The above is only useful to characters that have a good 33+P/K move...ie Kage. It's supposed to work exactly the way Srider described it...Kage is at a slight disadvantage...Lau elbows, Kage evades...or Lau throws, then Kage uppers him for a combo.
I don't understand the logic behind it, or how the upper comes out with P33, but it does seem to work...

 

Ahh...OK, I was confused with Srider's frequent references to Myke's post and Alucard's posts (that were in turn were responding to Myke's post).

That said...I don't see how it's any different; the first step is still to dodge before / .

 

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That said...I don't see how it's any different; the first step is still to dodge before /

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It's different. Even though the first step is to dodge, there's no dodge animation if the opponent throws, just the FC move. I found it hard to believe until I tested it myself.

 

Ok, I ate my words by posting in this thread again, but there is a compelling urge in me to rebutt your bullshit misinformation posts.

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Also, what kazu showed us effectively worked in situations where ECD could not evade the throw. We also saw variation where a standing jab was used. There is no evade animation at all. I don't think it is a "variation" of ARE, it's just the same thing. Unlike ECD where there exist a half whiffed evade animation. In Lau's case, it's like an instant FC move.

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Bullshit. There is supposed to be NO evade animation AT ALL with both techniques, not even "half-whiffed". The attack will come out instantly(be it low punch or FC move) if the opponent chooses to throw. I reiterate, this only works when you are at -4 or better.

A failed dodge can be cancelled, but it still takes more than 10f, there is no way on earth one can cancel a failed dodge and hope to avoid a throw, unless an attack(be it low punch or FC move) has been buffered into the end of the command. In that case, the dodge is recognised by the game as cancelled(by the ECD into FC move or low punch), before it was even executed if you like.

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I think I should elaborate on something your first post wasn't clear on.. The ARE does NOT contitute a counter attack in the technique. It is simply combining an evade with an attack. Which in effect will evade a linear attack OR beat a throw if that is what the opponent executes. This is somewhat of a bug I think, cause a normal ECD->attack shows a whiffed evade into CD and then into attack when done normally. ARE on the other hand when done correctly, looks like an attack by itself whether it's a jab or FC attack, there is not other animation, except for a slight jerk before the attack. The counter attack you tacked on in your initial post is just something that's optional. So I don't know what's the fuss of everyone saying a lp will beat out standing palm whatever. You can follow it with anything for all that matters. In the case of a delayed attack, this is unpredictable, you are not exactly screwed if the opponent does a delayed attack when you are doing ARE, but you are throwing an attack yourself if they delay. The outcome is not definite, since you might interrupt their delayed attack or the opponent was crouched, or whatever. ARE is simply a technique to avoid any throw or linear attack mix up in a situation where you are behind in a few frames. I think I've said this too many times... for those that understands it, good.

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ECD into FC move will not show a whiffed evade animation at all, you will get the FC attack if your opponent chooses to throw you. The dodge command/animation will be cancelled by the FC move or low punch in the case of ARE.

Don't pretend to know shit when you don't know nuts, you have shown your ignorance when you said that ARE can be done when one is at -6, and with ECD --> FC move, there will be a whiffed dodge animation. You are WRONG on both accounts. Now stfu before you confuse everybody.

 

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Srider said:

Yes it's true, there is almost no whiffed evade animation when ARE is done correctly, it is like it's canceled instantly. You don't see it at all, but you really did cancel an evade. Which is why shou gave the example of lau, if when you execute it correctly, lau does an instant FC attack. It does sound too good to be true doesn't it. Which is why I think it's kind of hard to understand this technique. I didn't believe it until we all saw it done....

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This is stupid. What you've just descibed is not ARE. Why don't you go read what you've just typed?

...if when you execute it correctly, lau does an instant FC attack...

WTF? Isn't that ECD --> FC move? I do this all the time when I play Lau, except I use upkn and not FC .

 

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Anyway, I cannot, for the life of me, do a dodge ~ CD ~ , and get anything worthwhile out of it. I get no low punch and now FC move no matter what. Any ideas why? And anyway, what benefits are there in entering the before the CD input? I don't see what this has over ECD+FC move.

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I tested with Kage: (opponent blocks it) -> evade -> ->

In this situation, entering the before the CD input essentially buffers another , but it will only execute if the opponent throws. If they counter with a linear attack, you'll get the successful dodge.

 

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evade ~ ~

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When I set the cpu to block and throw, my ECD was always interrupted by a throw. In a -3 situation, an evade ~ ++ attack will beat a throw, but I don't think you can evade and crouch fast enough to avoid the throw. IMO, ECD isn't quite as good as it was in Ver. C.

 

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Myke said:
*Now I'd like someone to confirm this for me, at -3 you cannot crouch dash to avoid a throw. I tried more times than I cared for it, and I couldn't do it. This is important I think as I am quite sure you could in VF4 pre-evo. The whole ECD technique I posted initially revolved around this fact. So, I just need a sanity check.


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I'm not sure if I was doing it fast enough, but I was trying the ECD technique an hour ago and I got the same result as you did. I got thrown right after I saw the crouch dash animation start(character was beginning to crouch) .

 

I think i've said enough already about this... and I remain with what I've said... this is a "bug" of some sorts, and many people clearly saw it in action at NY a few months ago. This technique has been around in japan for quite some time. (Although It has been a well kept secret.) If you don't believe what I've stated, that's fine, because it is that hard to believe. It is potentially game breaking. You are doing an attack+evade at the SAME time, and it's not only limited to the characters with a FC move. Think what ever you will, if this is ECD then why did arcadia bother to post this same info again with a different name? Even dre has done this correctly and saw NO evade animation.

I don't mind it if you guys don't believe it, it's not my loss. You can say whatever about me but it doesn't change the fact that something like this does exist in the game. I guess it's wrong to explain in detail how ARE works... seems like some of you just can not seem to grasp the idea at all...

p.s. Myke I would go check the article in arcadia again just to check the command for ARE again.. I wouldn't be surprised if it was indeed Evade ..
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How is it game breaking? It's still a guessing game, just different weighting of options: attack, throw, circular, or delay-whatever.

Also, I'm not convinced at all about the practicality of this technique. Few of the top Japanese players use it...or at least, seem to use it. It's almost impossible to tell when it works doesn't it?