An assasin trained in ... Judo!!??

Again, Foreman was great in his specific window of time, between
down-goes-Frazier to Zaire. I'm not sure how many title defenses Foreman
had, if any, but he dominated up until the Rumble because no one had seen that kind of power
and speed in a heavyweight in a long time. Ali psyched Foreman out, essentially
deflating the brute before he got into the ring. Foreman wasn't worried
about winning a fight, he wanted to kill Ali...and if he'd had the technical
skills to set up his power, we'd probably be talking about
Foreman as being the great boxing champion of the 1970s. Unfortunately,
Foreman was weak in his head, couldn't focus, and got outclassed by Ali.

Anyway, if you ever get to see Foreman vs Ron Lyle, a late '70s
fight between two hulking men with deadly speed and power, you will
see probably one of the craziest matches ever. The two were so powerful, and
lacked defense so badly, that every time they landed a power punch the opp.
went down and out, barely beating the count. There was like three knockdowns in
the first round alone. Foreman is unconscious on his feet, mouthpiece hanging out drunkenly, yet he times and
unleashes a right hook on Lyle that dropped him so fast it looked like a
cartoon. This went on for all three or four rounds. Just unreal.

 

Hahahaha yeah.

 

Sorry, Noris, IMHO, just never had what it took to defeat bruce's combination of power/size, and speed, not to mention technical ability.

 

The only edge I'd give Norris is size and probably overall toughness...
Norris in his prime just looked like a hard fucker, not ripped, but oak solid.
Bruce Lee wasn't like Jet Li, a guy who can perform many different Chinese
styles to perfection, so Lee gets criticized for lacking that
diversity for some reason...Lee's brilliance was developing a system for
himself tailored to HIS strengths, and anyone's I suppose, since JKD is
brutal and simple in execution. In a video game battle, virtual Lee would
wipe the floor with virtual Norris; in the real world, you have to
factor in all the arbitrary things that could happen in a match, especially a
blood match. Though in my opinion there is nothing that would give me
watery bowels faster than squaring off with Bruce Lee screaming like a
maniac in front of me. The only way it could get worse if if I
had to take on Sonny Chiba in his prime. Chiba scares the shit out of me,
what with his hissing and nasal spitting as he gets in karate mode.
I mean, Chiba's the guy who tore the scrotum off a rapist in STREET FIGHTER and
then wiped his hand on the guy's underwear. I know that's a movie, but you don't get more hardcore
than that.

 

Thread moved to general.

 

Not to interrupt the general ravings and rantings present in this thread, but the main reason Foreman lost to Ali was because he got worn out. Foreman had been winning practically all of his fights up to that point in two or three rounds, and hadn't been conditioning himself properly.

He simply didn't have the endurance he needed. Watch the fight, it becomes clear who is in better overall shape, especially in the later rounds. Foreman got tired out by Ali. After that fight, Foreman started really training for longer fights, but of course we never got to see that Foreman fight Ali because of his converting to Christianity and deciding it was wrong to fight anymore.

 

After wich he made a comeback and bla bla bla.
Foreman didnt need to last for 8 rounds and even if he had to he did have the condition to fight a real match for that long.
He had an exhibition where he boxed two houres straight and some of his training consisted of pounding the bag for 45 minutes straight.
But yah he was Myke Tyson at his prime before Myke Tyson was born, a guy who took out others in just a few seconds.
Ali however refused to go down and didnt allow foreman to box the way he was used to and instead held him and let him punch his body for round after round.
Suddenly foreman wasnt punching from his desired stance and was forced to punch bend over and that guy who had mocked him so much refused to go down and instead kept mocking him some more, that caused foreman to lose focus and direction to his punches and made him lose a lot of energy needlesly.
Like I said, as much a psychological fight as it was a physical one and man it was one hell of a physical fight.

Ali mumbaye.

 

ok, out of curiousity about the lee/norris issue, did any of you know that when lee's sidekick flick (toto.. i think /versus/images/icons/confused.gif ) in green hornet ended he became a martial arts instuctor for celebrities with upcoming action movies, and some celebrities took lessons from him because they just want to?, and might i add that he chuck norris asked to be trained a thing or 2 to add to whatever martial arts knowledge he already has. and did you also know that this was the reason (norris was a former student at the time, and when lee makes movies the main male actors that play in the movie are his students.) norris was lee's opponent in the movie? /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

Yep...Lee trained Kareem Abdul-Hole and James Coburn, ect.
I wasn't sure of the specifics of the Lee/Norris thing, except that
Norris was a student at some point either before or after Norris became
huge...however this doesn't detract from the fact that I mentioned
Lee/Norris match as a BLOOD match, between two men who were NOT
friends, not training buddies, not respectful of each other in the least.
In that scenario, with even some hate added in, you'd find some kind of
truth, if you're obsessed with Lee VERSUS Norris, or VERSUS the WORLD.
Everybody wants to believe Lee was the greatest fighter ever born...highly
unlikely. Is he the best fighter of his generation? Who knows? There's probably
street fighters walking around who've had enough collective experience
and situations and natural ability, like Lee himself, to break Lee or anybody.
Just because Norris was a student of Lee does not mean Norris was inferior;
like Lee, Norris wanted to be the best, so you learn from the best. Norris was one of
the best if not THE best martial artist anybody's heard of (media) in North America in
the early '70s. But as I've stated, Lee was a pretty psycho-obsessed man who made his
body transcend it's limitations...I think Lee would fight until he died, to prove he
was better, while Norris would fight until he understood something, his limits, so on. Now,
if this was a match in which one man walked out ALIVE, that's even more
arbitrary...who would win would be a complete dice roll and can never be
answered.

 

ok, let me clear things out, I never said he was the greatest figther ever born, and I never said Norris was inferior to him, stop assuming that, coz all i wanted was a "yes" or "no" answer, coz most of you are reffering to their match in the movie like it was a real decissive match, my only point in asking that is so that some of you may realize that norris was in a fight scene with lee on a Bruce lee movie is because norris was a student, and bruce lee likes putting his students in his movies. so i'm really wondering why you're arguing with me, with assumptions that i said lee was this, and norris was that, when i was just curious of wether people knew about the fact i've stated in my recent post. no offense man, but i think you're getting way to personal in a net conversation (arguing with someone who just wanted a "yes" or "no" question, assumptions that there's a meaning behind every word someone say, vulgarity in some of your post) take it easy man, nothing is personal here unless someone makes it personal, i was only curious so i asked, sorry if my question offended your intelligence in any way. sheesh!

 

I'm not arguing with you, fella. I'm arguing with people who think Bruce Lee was a preternatural phenomenon. I don't know much about Lee or Norris, except the way their lives have gone. And for Lee, long gone.

I apologize if I sounded like I was jumping on you, death. I don't know enough about either of these guys to spout off like an expert...it's mostly just speculation, and a little old tiredness with hearing about the great Bruce Lee, who WAS great...and JKD is probably the best everyday fighting system ever designed for modern application in the street. Anybody can pick up the basics in a very short time.

 

apology accepted, in any case while JKD is a good technique, and the form is easy to pick up, its principles are mostly misunderstood, hence bringing flaws to JKD itself, but then again every form has it flaws, right?

 

This actually touches on something which really irks me - people making bruce lee superhuman. He just had an increadible worth ethic.

 

What are the principles of JKD?

 

Everybody has a different body, different speeds, are better at certain things...like any martial art, JKD can be applied literally if you're a certain type. If you're a great big grappling guy with hands heavier than turkeys, you might want to try something different, or apply what JKD striking/locking techniques fit your personal martial approach. I don't believe in purity, but that you should just go ahead and mix and match to fit what you got. I'm betting it's rare to see martial artists who don't do that. Even the word "karate" today is becoming a generic term for some writers, like Bob Christensen, who teaches from a wide knowledge of all kinds of Japanese, Thai, Korean styles, plucking what's most simple and effective for street use first, tournament fighting second. What's cool about mix and match is that you don't HAVE to do anything you don't want to. If you KNOW your kicks will suck, even low ones (and they should all be low) you concentrate on hand techniques (me). Everybody should learn some basic self-defense, particularly women. No matter what your personal philosophy about violence, somebody out there can hurt you badly for something as small as a wrong look, or being attractive and alone. Don't make it easy for them.

 

well i would have to say it originates from lee's motto: " having no way as way", these were the basis of the JKD principles. that's all i know about it, and the motto really gets misunderstood quite alot.

 

Re: GOH, an assasin trained in Judo!

Yea baby. Silent kills are important in this field of work. Judo expert can choke the breathe out of victim quite nicely thank you very much. They can also bounce you on your skull in the blink of an eye. *splat!* Size does not matter so much as focus and motivation. My dad is 80 years old and five foot even. He can still drop a six footer in the blink of an eye with just his thumb ( on either hand). Assasination is not a confrontational art.