Any VF5 Ideas ?

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DRE said:
d+dodge button..../versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're adding an extra button and making things more complicated than they should be. With the current system, you could simply hit down to dodge towards the screen. It's a simpler, faster, more intuitive system IMO.


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I agree 100%. I guess it comes down to preference, but I could never really adjust to having a dodge button.

 

We are really saying the same thing, kbcat. Most people are not asking for vf.net, just asking for those things you've listed. Which is what I was saying. A similar system is NBA Jam or NFL Blitz, which is basically what people think it's possible, but really far from what vf.net is.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

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The point is.. Whatever we say will never make an impact on how VF5 is actually going to turn out, this sort of discussion is better left for irc.

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The term SPoD is a North American thing(invented by the canadians back in VF2 days). Anyone ever fight SpoD akira in kumite?? Sega isnt stupid, they listen to us too.

 

They are so attentive to the needs of US VF players that they chose to give us a brand NEW save system for the home version of evo!! /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Thank you AM2, for giving us exactly what we wanted!!

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

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They are so attentive to the needs of US VF players that they chose to give us a brand NEW save system for the home version of evo!! Thank you AM2, for giving us exactly what we wanted!!


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You know, that's exactly what I was thinking. All this bitching about more/less buttons is kind of pointless. In the end AM2 will do as they please, just like that memory card crap. I still think that a simplified control scheme is always better.

Death to the evade button!! Bring on the jump button!! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

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DRE said:
Death to the evade button!! Bring on the jump button!! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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That's actually a good idea. I think that would make jumping more instinctive than it currently is. I know some people are thinking "you think the evade button isn't instinctive, yet the jump button is?". Imho, it is.

To evade in VF4, you tap in the direction you want to evade. Imo, that's more instinctive that hitting or d+. I love VF3, but the evade button is something that I just never really got used to. For jumping, you hit u+an attack button to jump, then either hold and release just before landing, or hit it again. I think simply hitting [J] and hitting before you land would be more instinctive. Plus, the flashier characters (Pai, Sarah) could benefit from improved jumping games with more moves using commands like [J]+, or u/f+[J]+ (of couse some characters like Jeff wouldn't have much of these). Hell, this game could then make the jump to 100% 3D with 3D jumping (uf+[J] jumps forward but into the foreground, etc). This opens windows for more moves as well.

But I can see one big problem coming from this. It may be necessary to change the current jumping attacks (like Shun's +) into commands utilizing the [J] button to make the control scheme more clean, systematic, and uniform. This would alter the movelists too much. I'm not a big fan of drastic changes. If they movelists would have to change that much, then I'd prefer they leave the jump button out.

But it is an interesting concept. G, P, K, J...it could work. It would be cool, but I don't really care. Sega has my utter trust. I know that the next VF is going to be tight. That's because Sega always delivers the good shit /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

But that's a great idea Dre.

 

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DRE said:
Death to the evade button!! Bring on the jump button!! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Thank you, finally somone said those forbidden words of the E button.

 

-The E button wasn't all that bad but I agree, the new system is more intuitive.

-What's wrong with sloped stages ? Nobody said every stage had to be sloped. As long as we get more variety (flat, sloped, irregular, walls, no walls...)

-I also think they should redo some of the old animations (Motion capture for everybody).

-P.S. Lan Di (hands behind the back stance) and Ryo Hazuki. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

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Jedi said:

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The point is.. Whatever we say will never make an impact on how VF5 is actually going to turn out, this sort of discussion is better left for irc.

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The term SPoD is a North American thing(invented by the canadians back in VF2 days). Anyone ever fight SpoD akira in kumite?? Sega isnt stupid, they listen to us too.

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I agree, Sega must have people reading these type of threads for feedback, advice, or new ideas. Especially VFDC, they know Japan isn't the only place people play the game. I know that Namco does it (Dean Earwicker was renamed Steve Fox after they went on different forums and discovered how much people hated the name)

 

Bah, don't make me have to hurt you...leave my precious e button alone /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

d+dodge button.... This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're adding an extra button and making things more complicated than they should be.

The problem is that in order for the game to know you're not just ducking, you need to tap down, then let the stick go to neutral. It's really two inputs, a certain amount of time is required for you to do down-to-neutral while d+E is a single fast input. Down-to-neutral is also adversely affected by bouncy sticks, sometimes you just wanted to duck for a split second.

Count the steps:

VF3:
E, , +E,

VF4:

, (neutral), , , (neutral),

It sounds insignificant, but it makes all the difference - the time needed to let your stick return to neutral so you can do something else with it slows you down enough that stepping in cute little box patterns is impossible.

Really guys, if anyone can say with a straight face that pressing one button in conjunction with your joystick is "harder" or "more complicated" then I'll shut up. But I know that since I'm talking to people who can spod, dlc, and m-dbpm that this "complicated" line is a load of bs /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

While I'm at it, anyone want to claim with a straight face that they never got an accidental dodge, or got something else when they MEANT to dodge?

This is a very powerful technique because it avoids so much, therefore it should be hard to do. Since it can already be done in VF4, I don't see a point in adding a button.

It's overrated, but that's besides the point. It CAN'T really be done in VF4.
All the slick movement you see in VF4 is almost entirely forward and back, I'm sure you downloaded the movement exhibition by shinz. What do you see? Forward and back in a crouch, something that's been around since VF2. Now watch the maximum battle clips. Neat little boxes and zigzags.

In any case, I'm sidetracked. My goal isn't to bring back K stepping, just to eliminate dodge fuckups.

 

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Myke said:

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ONISTOMPA said:

I agree, Sega must have people reading these type of threads for feedback, advice, or new ideas. Especially VFDC, they know Japan isn't the only place people play the game.

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Is Sega of Japan really listening? Or did Sega of America just employ someone to come up with a bunch of VF related names for Kumite characters?

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I hope they're listening ! They've already conquered the Japanese market so it would seem logical that their main focus now would be the North American and European markets. Like you said, there's probably people at Sega of America who search through these forums and relay ideas and more importantly problems like the mem. card issue, the censorship issue or whatever problems it may be to Sega of Japan. Because afterall, we also spend time and money on the game so it would only seem right that they'd pay attention, even a little, to our thoughts and needs.

 

You know what, adding the E button isn't that bad of an idea, as long as they leave us the option of either doing it with the stick or the button. It also could be even more interesting if they gave each character their own unique animations when using the E button (different sways, defensive or evading techniques for everyone like you mentioned earlier). It could add alot to the game, if you really think about it.

 

I don't think that can be a fair example since the CAPCOM 6 button layout only controlled the various strengths of attacks and not the motions which which to avoid or initiate attacks.

Doesn't matter. What it boils down to is "is this added 'complexity' of the fourth button going to hinder anyone"...

Argument 1: "if you can play 6 button SF, you can play 4 button VF". The E button might get pressed in VF as often as one of the other two punches or kicks in SF... and like SF it only needs to be used in conjunction with neutral or down on the stick. If I can switch from d+jab to neutral+strong ... I can handle d+P to neutral+E.

Argument2: VF3 was very popular and had great (better) movement. So I guess the E button wasn't a problem or a fuckup on sega's part.

As for "some people didn't like the E button in VF3" ...I never heard that, and was on this site and others when VF3 was new and popular. That doesn't mean the opinion never existed, of course. But...I didn't see you there, so I'm wondering where you got this impression. Frankly, the "people complained about the less streamlined interface" has that...made-up-to-support-my-argument smell /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Got a URL?

It makes no sense to add another button just for the sake of adding one. It's not hard to tap or to initiate a sidestep or to manipulate the directions on the joystick to produce varying degrees of deceptive stepping. If you enter into an accidental move/situation from frantic directional pushing, then you just work better on keeping your cool and being more precise.

"It's not hard" is not a point up for debate here. It's not hard to tap up. It's not hard to tap up+E. There is no skill level at which one is possible but the other is beyond your grasp, assuming we're talking grown adults with all their limbs. What's up for debate is intuitiveness and practicality.

So why does it make sense? It makes sense for the same reason it did when it was introduced to VF3 - to make substantial movement in any cardinal direction available with a single tap, thus freeing up frames and stick directions to accomplish more important things like crouch dashing. Kbcat's f+E point was an excellent one, 1 frame movement forward is genuinely useful, though you may not miss it if you never experienced it. What's a more coherent, elegant system?

two taps = forward, two taps = back, one tap = up, one tap+neutral =down.
One tap = forward, one tap = back, one tap = up, one tap = down.

As for which system is more practical - Re: spazzing - it's not spazzing when I block jacky's elbow, duck for a split second to make the backfist whiff over my head, then return the stick to neutral to enter my df,df throw only to find instead of throwing, I just sat there like a retard and dodged downwards. I can count on zero hands the number of times when I wanted to dodge in VF3 and accidentally did something else, or wanted to do something else and accidentally dodged.


<font color="pink">Tone tip of the day:</font>
Don't imply your opponent is "whining" and "flailing" just because they disagree with you on this point. Or any other.

 

If it's an ALTERNATIVE way to dodge, then I don't see where the problem is( d+E or d,d : up to whoever's playing to choose) . But if it's the only way to dodge then no.

 

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As for "some people didn't like the E button in VF3" ...I never heard that, and was on this site and others when VF3 was new and popular. That doesn't mean the opinion never existed, of course. But...I didn't see you there, so I'm wondering where you got this impression. Frankly, the "people complained about the less streamlined interface" has that...made-up-to-support-my-argument smell
Got a URL?

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No I don't have a URL. It was from my experiences at local arcades, fighting game BBS's, and gatherings in my area. I would say at least 75-80% of us disliked the "E" button since we did not feel it was intuitive. It was and still is an unecessary button. The only reason it was used in VF3tb was because people had to if they wanted to avoid attacks. I hear very few voices now even remotely bringing up the "E" button unless they felt they lost some advantage from VF3-VF4. You can argue frame stats and your idea of complexity all you want, but the simple fact is I disagree and from *MY* experiences quite a few other people do as well. If it's put in VF5 then I will use it, but I highly doubt it will ever be in a VF game again without some serious tweaking. Twitch movement is usually fixed or at least modified to some extent when developers notice a big trend to exploit it. K-Stepping in VF, CD-Cancel SS dashes in DOA, and Wave/Light Dashing in Tekken are examples of these. You have a right to like it as much as I have a right to dislike it and absolutely no argument you offer will change my opinion. Quit trying to instigate a pissing contest over such a trivial issue.

 

E button or no E button, I'm sure am2 will do a great job on vf5. I only want to remark that accidental dodges during attempted are almost certainly a product of playing on a pad. I've never had it happen using a stick but I'll get this with fair regularity whenever I use the ol' dualshock.

 

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Really guys, if anyone can say with a straight face that pressing one button in conjunction with your joystick is "harder" or "more complicated" then I'll shut up. But I know that since I'm talking to people who can spod, dlc, and m-dbpm that this "complicated" line is a load of bs

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My point isn't about it being too "complicated", it's about having a "practical" control scheme. Adding a fourth button in order to accomplish what can already be done with three, is pointless. The evade button will not make K-stepping possible unless AM2 beefs up the dodge properties again (which I don't think will happen). According to your logic, they should also add a jump button /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. My point is, keep everything as simple(user-friendly) as possible. IMO, If you're adding another button, make sure it adds something completely new to the gameplay and doesn't just duplicate an old idea.