Aoi Umenokoji VS. The VF Cast

I'm sorry if this is the wrong thread but, I really need help. If you would prefer for me to ask in a separate thread, then I can as well. Anyways, I actually need some character-specific tips on how to play against Vanessa and Wolf. Vanessa is just becoming way too hard to beat, and has a lot of options that (apparently) also have some evasive properties. Making a mistake against her can be really costly in health since Aoi is a lightweight, so I'm trying to find some tips on how to maximize my damage opportunities against her. Does anyone have some advice which may be helpful?

Also for Wolf, I don't really have any experience against him at all, so just about anything would be great for this guy. What should I be looking out for (as far as inputs are concerned) when I am on the ground and they attempt a ground throw for example?

 

I'll give you the basics for Wolf.

If he hits you with , you need to tech. If you don't, the player can confirm that you didn't and perform a combo to ring you out from the center of the stage. is also -15 on guard. If Wolf ends a combo with this move, at max charge may be waiting for you. Evade towards his back to avoid getting hit by it.

Ground throws: is the throw you want to watch out for. It picks you off the ground and can ring you out or throw you into a wall. does direct damage, and may be used if you consistently break the former throw.

Catch: pushes you forward while throws you backwards. That's really all you need to know. If caught from behind, pushes you forward.

Try to always react to HCB . Crouch and punish it with or whatever Aoi has. I'd enter a low throw escape when attempting to crouch, too. His strongest low throw direction is . If you guard the high, do not try to attack unless you're using a move that you are sure will catch Wolf from range. Maybe K] or something. Wolf players may try to use a back dash to in this situation. And I found out recently that this move is -15 on guard, whereas it used to be -12.

Wolf's two strongest throws are between and , with being the stronger of the two. You can escape both by entering and then sliding the stick to for . This is because his forward throw is slower.



There are other things to know, but this should give you a good start if you didn't know these things.

 

Hey Valakrie,

It's difficult to give any tips on what to do against Vanessa or Wolf without me seeing how you play. So I'll just post a cliff notes version on some things to look for.

Regarding Vanessa, know whether she's in Defensive Style of Offensive Style at all times because fighting against each style takes a different approach. Observe cautiously how often your opponent uses her punch and kick sabakis ( and , respectively), crush jaw uppercut which causes a stagger, and while in DS. Also be on the lookout for her more dangerous throws, hit-throws, and arm grab options.

When fighting against Vanessa in OS be on the lookout for dangerous combo-starter attacks like (on Counter Hit only), , , and variety of strings. does indeed have evasive properties as it can go right over Aoi's or , plus it leaves Vanessa at +2 on block so it's best to evade this attack whenever possible. may have evasive properties of its own against certain attacks, but I'm not too sure about this. At any rate, this attack is punishable on block as it leaves Vanessa at -15 in this situation. The Tenchi parry can handle all three of these particular attacks too -- and be sure to hammer Vanessa with a big-damage combo after a successful parry of or . But be mindful of the takedown catch throw (tackle) which can be done after certain strings or even as a standalone move. This move obviously beats the Tenchi parry stance. If tackled, get ready to do a throw escape input.

As for Wolf, picks opponent off the ground after a knockdown. All of his ground attacks are done with .

Always and I mean always be on the lookout for . It goes without saying how dangerous this move is. Just don't get hit by it at any cost.

Also be mindful of the shoulder ram. It's a risky move for Wolf but very effective tool against the back dash. Plus it destroys Aoi's Tenchi parry stance and nets bonus CH damage to boot, as you may already know.

Many Wolf players like to immediately go to the charge move whenever they anticipate a quick tech roll or quick stand-up recovery after knockdown, so it's a good idea to stay on the ground after being knocked down at times so to disrupt their rhythm. However, this move can be reversed or parried with Tenchi if you do choose to get up quickly after being knocked down.

Wolf's catch throw can be an extremely dangerous tool because of the numerous follow-up options he has so it's best to avoid getting caught by this. If you do get caught in one however, input neutral throw escape to force opponent to go to other less damaging options then adapt accordingly. Watch for the uppercut from crouch position which staggers on hit. Beware of the low drop kick which knocks down on hit, and even staggers on standing block.

There is a half-circular spinning jump kick move Wolf has which also staggers on hit (). It's a noteworthy move because it has some evasive properties against certain high attacks.

Speaking of jumps... watch out for descending jump punch > low throw and descending jump kick knockdown > ground throw pick-up mixups.

And when defending, make sure to consistently input throw escape direction whenever possible until your opponent proves he is capable of mixing up throw directions.

Kruza

 

Ahh, Vanessa, my favorite sandbag.. since she's full of stupidly good moves, Vanessa players tend to abuse them, so just use them to your advantage:

Vanessa DS:
: duck the second kick and !.
: good against Aoi because it sabakies Aoi's essential elbow / punch attacks, so at situations when your opponent throws out that move carelessly while expecting an elbow ( like after you hit them with ), use her knee instead and make her pay. If they mix her sabaki with abare low punch, just crouch backdash and ! her whiffed low punch or sabaki. is also good.
If you get sabkied, you can't crouch a throw, so if your opponent likes to throw you, abare with a launcher.
Hold or has evasive properties at disadvantage, so just refrain yourself from attacking when you have advantage all the time and wait for blocking it and punish it since it's -13 on block. If you know it's coming, backdash and launch punish with or .
is a slow special low punch what can be blocked standing, but Vanessa is only -1 when blocked, so right away or even if she likes to low punch you after.

Vanessa OS:
is special high and goes over low attacks, so replace your with and the job is done. ( No Kruza, can't be crushed by it) If Vanessa likes to do that move from distance instead of trying to crush your sweep at disadvantage, just stay crouched and !. Remember this move is slow, so at distance, you can just hit her in the air with a high punch.
If you blocked it, just fuzzy guard.
Also, if you get hit with that move, the combo what follows may remind you Aoi's combo ending with followed by : Vanessa slams you on the ground with her and then does her into catch throw or a mid crumple punch if you tech. If you tech the move what slams after her bound attack in the combo, sidestep immediately and . If you fail to tech and eat her on the ground, don't tech after because it's a free 50/50 mix up for her beetween the catch throw or the crumpling mid punch.
Learn to recognize her string ending with a delayable half circular special high kick like or : Vanessa tends to use that string on oki if you tech the combo I mentionned earlier if there is a wall near you . Duck and punish with !.
If she tends to on wake up, evade to her back or try to low punch her before the punch.
If you duck under her catch throw, ! is free.
Learn to struggle out of her stagger, especially the shoulder ram or the When standing in DS.
If she jump back when you are on the ground, don't do wake up kicks because she will do her roll or catch throw.

Or, I forgot her stupid stance on the ground: just don't use or as meaty when you KND her, but what will hit her anyway. If you predict she will tech into that special stance, dash and .
Evade cancel crouch dash to her front when she's trying to attack you from that stance will avoid her low hit throw and her catch throw, then punish her with

Most of the time, tenchi will be helpful for this match up, so if Vanessa is aware of this, she will try to sweep you or use her low attacks more: punish her !

 

Everything kingo said.

I can only add trivial information now. For example, remember that DS vanessa has subpar punishment. So if you're feeling lucky about choosing the right throw escape, by all means, bust out Aoi's launchers (and remember to alternate between and , Vanessa can't sabaki both at the same time).

A note should be made about DS : Since it's HDK it will beat tenchi (or mid reversal) for non-negligeable damage. So a vanessa player might actually try to use this move against Aoi. Since it's +5 when blocked, Aoi's slow, non-floor-scraping, attacks will lose i the vanessa player also attacks - follow kingo's advice to deal with it. I personally use it vs aoi players who haven't proven to me they know how to deal with it. Please note that, since it's a jumping attack, if you happen to counterhit vanessa she will float, meaning you you will be able to followup with a combo (she's lightweight - provided you improvise in time.

Other than that, dunno, DS string can be shut down with aoi's sabaki, right? I never do that string vs aoi anymore, not enough reward.

Concerning vanessa's other style, again kingo covered everything you have to know to deal with OS too... except ! He probably forgot about that move since nobody is using it against him (i certainly don't, he can duck it on reaction and punish with 2/5 of my lifebar for my insolence). However, like DS , i do use it vs Aoi players who haven't proven to me they know how to deal with it: since it's a HCR, it will beat tenchi (or mid reversal) and combo into for 1/3 of Aoi's lifebar. In other words it's damaging enough that you will have to train yourself to recognize the startup of the move. That said, at 37 exe, it's not that hard

 

@Libertine - Thanks for clearing that up for me. Wolf's throws and ground throws were the main problem. His other moves, not so much. Now it is just a matter of me exploring El Blaze so that I could shut him down as well lol. Though I am a little confused, when you say that his forward throw is slower, are generally just referring to Burning Hammer?

@ Kruza – 9K can indeed be surprising sometimes. Thankfully I seem to catch it a lot with Aoi’s 4K+G sabaki, which I find to be good in this matchup since it will also go under a lot of her highs and even stop her tackle. Wolf is a little different, as a lot of his moves are just ambiguous to me. I usually just use Tenchi when I see them use the P+K charge, but sometimes it still catches me by surprise. I will have to look into the evasive properties on his 6K+G against highs, as this may explain why I’m getting hit by it in a lot of situations. Thank you!

@Kingo – Thank you for these tips, a lot of the things that you mentioned were what I was having problems against. The mixup after she does 2KP is what has really been getting me, especially if I tech roll, where I can usually expect the options that you mentioned, or that roll that she has which staggers. I’m also learning to watch out for her DS 2K+G sweep by the wall, which actually has pretty good range for what it does.

@Erdraug – I actually didn’t know that her OS K+G was launch punishable when ducked (usually use ), but I will definitely have to try that as well!

Thank you for all of the detailed responses guys!

 

Launching from ducking with Aoi is pretty hard, the hit throw does the job really.
However against Vanessa DS or Pai's , you can to duck the last high kick then to get her launcher . I didn't test that against other characters' strings.

Yeah about Vanessa , if you can tech before she does that string you can sidestep it and get a side kick +11 or crumple if she goes to the roll mix up. But if you eat the string on the ground after you failed to tech, it's better to stay on the ground.

For Wolf, if there are walls, ground throw escape with . Always.
If he grabs you with his catch throw and there are walls, then he will attempt to throw you in the wall to get a wall combo, so escape with if the wall is behind him, or if the wall is behind you or if there is no wall.
Also only his burning hammer is slower. 16 fr exe.
I also just tenchi his charge, since he can't cancel it into other things anyway, so free for you.

 

vs Kage

Poor Kage, most of his good bread and butter moves can be shut down by Tenchi or sabaki, i.e.

+1 on block, the follow up can be delayed or mixed with throw, but punishable. (-13)
Wait, it's a high ? Go go Aoi's ! !!!
+1 on block, mainly used for meaty or whiff punish
, basic elbow strategy & JUMONJI Stance, if Kage enters Jumonji on block, use to kill all his options ( the JU , the sabaki JU , or JU )
If he enters it at small advantage, use EDC then to block his sweep attempt.
, mostly used at nitaku. Aoi's sabaki will prevent him from using it too much.
, mix ups kinda annoying because the kick can be delayed and Kage can enter his BT Stance
the hit throw, even on guard. Slow and duckable, evadable to his back.
jump over lows, +1 block, refrain yourself from using , use instead
, string & stance mix ups: your best bet is to try to sabaki the second hit or ECD to avoid the throw mix up
the low is safe
SHIPPUJIN Stance: his 2 main launchers from that stance are middle punch, so Tenchi can deal with them easily.


It will make Aoi's life easier, but if Kage decides to use his anti Tenchi moves, make sure to punish him because most of them are unsafe on block and/or punishable by a launcher if evaded..

is only -13 but launchable on evade.
the cathweel, can be teched to avoid a green combo ( but hard ) -16
the low kick, leaves him BT -12 on block, punish with Aoi's low throw ( will become a back throw ) or . Aoi's hit throw connects if he tries to turn around with .
At the end of a match, beware of the : can only be blocked with a crouched guard. If Kage ends up behind you after you blocked it, use to get a side crumple and punish with a combo. If you get hit by it but still alive, tech and mash because he's still punishable even on hit. lol
a very slow sweep, punish with if you guard it. Becareful, it can be cancelled into his BT stance.
SH , block and punish, or just evade to Kage's back to avoid the mix up with his SH or
the somersault... seriously ?!!
and suicide move to end a match mostly. Punish with a launcher.
leaves him BT, use to launch him whatever he tries to do after. Do not try to punish with a throw !!


Now, Kage has still some safe anti Tenchi moves:
Jumping Moves, like Jump , dangerous if you are against the wall
Jump is a full low circular punch, his Jump, is also a roll, stagger on hit.
However, don't forget jumping moves are slow, Kage will use them mostly for oki purpose.
BT is +4 on block and crush lows, while BT is a low punch.
Evade to his front ( when he's BT ) to be safe.
dangerous if you're back to the wall, otherwise, it's not too bad for Aoi to get hit by that move. Beware of the pushback though.
SH is full circular but high. The possible follow up is mid & unsafe.
BT is a catch throw, but slow enough to be ducked with ECD.
not much a threat because of the reward. Backdash & punish if you predict it.


For throws, escape mostly with , especially if you're near the edge of the ring or with low walls as Kage can easily end the match with a ring out combo.
Since Aoi can BT reverse or BT evade, Kage will have to rely on non guaranteed stuffs once he put you BT with his throw, allowing you to abare sometimes. If he tries to when you're facing the wall after the throw, crouch ASAP to avoid the wall stagger.

As you can see, Aoi's defensive tools, combined with defense basics can really hurt Kage's offense & poking game. He will have to delay / wait and play very patient if he wants to win. Watch out for his ring out options and learn to punish effectively any unsafe anti-Tenchi moves he may throw at you..
His punishment game is kinda weak ( your unsafe -13 moves can only be punished by his , no combo if he blocked your sweep ), and he can't really hurt you much if he backdashes your moves since his NH launchers are not fast. His overall damage output is kinda low against a lightweight like Aoi, unless his combos involve walls or TFT combos.
I would recommend to evade to his front to avoid his and , while EDC can still deal with his ( tracks to his stomach).
starts a combo on CH, but can be sabakied by Aoi's . Kage will try to use his knee more, in that case Tenchi neats you a combo and take care of both his most rewarding options against abare.
When he enters JU at disadvantage, him. Like after his elbow , what has short range like Aoi's one, so try to backdash it sometimes.
When he's in SH, evade to his back to avoid the double low kicks if you are afraid of the mid launchers too. SH Stance options as oki tool can be hard to deal with though, especially when you decide to not tech and wake up in place without rising attacks.
His can crush your low punch and your sweep, so again, replace your low punch with . Try to not do low rising attacks on wake up too.
His avoid high and throws even at disadvantage, be aware of that when you have advantage ( don't use at +4 or for example ) but more or and score some damage with combos on CH. But remember he has a 11 frames , which change your options when you're +4.
His meaty options are mostly but you can Tenchi after you teched and still can automatically guard it, ( unsafe and only +2 on hit ), side kick , along with Shippujin shenanigans or BT moves as okizeme / wake up game. Kinda tricky to deal with, so mix up your wake up options.
A tough Match up for Kage for sure, but it doesn't mean you can just spam Tenchi and sabaki to beat him, play your cards right and just make him think you are going to Tenchi and punish his "anti-Aoi" game accordingly. He will have to guess right more than you.


That's all I can think about for the moment.
Maybe I will add more later.

 

You really did your homework bitch!
For sure all this is thanks to YOUR uber Kage (the best in europe and maybe even the best of the world XD)
<3<3<3<3

EDIT
wait!
you forgot one particular move that you reeeeeally like to get hit by

 

I don't know what you are talking about...
But you're right, I forgot a move:

Spoiler

My bad, my bad...

Thank you so much ! It brought tears to my eyes that you finally admit it ...what a beautiful christmas present.. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

 

ahahahah
the video with that music is G0d3Like!

I think I have nice video where someone takes 3 times in a round something better than 8P+K.
Wait for it bitch <3

 

Isnt this Anti-Kage stuff way too optimistic ?

All his Sabakis loose to DoubleHand-attacks, just like every other Sabaki in the game, only Aoi can reverse them, so what.

"Evade to his back", well isnt one of the biggest strenghts of Kage his weird Hitbox, how do you recognize -in time- the location of Kages back, its a pure guessing game, unless you are a machine

Aois complete lack of range doesnt really help vs. Kages long range stuff

 

No, you don't need to be a machine, just like you can recognize open or close stance for some combos. Kage doesn't have much long range stuffs neither.
Aoi doesn't really need anti-Kage stuffs, it's rather the opposite: Kage need to be aware of his anti-Aoi options.

 

Requesting a rundown on El Blaze. Mashing 43P so far is my best option

 

vs Taka

A tough match up for Aoi: Taka's damage hurts Aoi, and the match can be over pretty fast because of his ridiculous Ring Out / Wall carry combos. Not to mention he has some good anti-Tenchi and anti-Sabaki options, so you have to be very careful with your defensive tools.

First of all, the Taka specific main combos to remember:

Launcher: or
>> BT
Note: meaty follow ups with or

Launcher:
>>
Note: does a little more damage but less oki advantage

Launcher: or Sabaki

Note: meaty with or

>
Little more damage for less oki advantage

Launcher: CH

>

Launcher:
OM to Taka's back

Launcher: or CH


Launcher: CH


Launcher: CH
>

Punish his unsafe launchers or moves with
but leaves you at -3
less damage but leaves you -1
only 40 dmg but provides a KND

When you Tenchi parry his punch type moves or his , Aoi's is entirely guaranteed and leaves you even (0).
However I wouldn't recommend using Tenchi or sabaki much, the risk / reward ratio is not in your favor. However it worth the risk at close range if he tries to poke with , or .
Now let's see Taka options against Aoi's defensive tools:
Taka's is a headbutt but is high and short range.
His is a double handed launcher but -15 on block.
is very unsafe on block, launch him with


How to not forget about ? Keep him honest by using sabaki if you happen to block the first move in case Taka tries to fool you with the delay, and mix up with ECD / EDC to beat a throw.
The belly move can be dealt with ECD/EDC too.
Both string are hit checkable but because of the threat of the second launcher hit, Taka is not really disadvantaged if he stops after the first hit.

Most of the time, evade to Taka's stomach except when you're back to the wall.
When he enters his stance, just ECD to avoid most follow up attacks.

In general, Aoi should try to evade or block more than Tenchi / sabaki in this match up.

Taka can also gives Aoi a hard time with his defensive options:
The armor and are the reason why you should use Aoi's ! more often, along with her . Replace your elbow with but beware of backdash into launcher.
Watch out for his too, it can easily make your move whiff.

To be continued

 

Thank you for this write-up, Kingo! Had no idea that PPK would all connect on Taka without him being sideturned. Like the damage on PP6PP but, being at -3 all the time felt weird. I figure the knockdown against taka would be even more rewarding as well.

 

That's actually -17. Not sure if Aoi can make any use of that, though.

 

There are no normal launchers Aoi can use at +17 after a blocking Taka's , but she can use both attack throws and to punish in this situation.

and the string is available too for moderate damage, although neither option knocks the big man down.

followed by is a very good option against Taka if the Taka player isn't adept at shaking out of struggles fast.

And don't completely rule out using standard throws to punish if the Taka player hasn't proven capable of escaping them.

Kruza

 

For people who don't know how to hit Vanessa when she's doing her lying down stance ( Intercept position ):

or ( then )

Pay attention to her stomach when she's on the ground and evade to her front to avoid both Intercept and then punish with .

Also meaties , , , Jump into and Sundome hit her if she's going into that stance after your knock down or combos.

 

Btw if you know Taka is inashi happy. Bait the stance with a standing P then duck the high attack. The attack is so slow you follow up with a 23P! P+G or even a 33P+k and get a blue CH, or you can even reversal it too.