Books on Fighting Styles

Discussion in 'General' started by Poppa, Aug 18, 2006.

  1. Vith_Dos

    Vith_Dos Well-Known Member

    chuck norris roundhouse kick > a gun or very sharp knife > all martial arts > no martial arts

    Didnt we have this conversation a couple weeks ago?
     
  2. Poppa

    Poppa Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Vith_Dos said:

    chuck norris pinky flick >nuclear bomb>tank> a gun or very sharp knife > all martial arts > no martial arts

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Please try to be a little more accurate next time...

    /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  3. Vith_Dos

    Vith_Dos Well-Known Member

    you almost forgot Jesus > everything else. Its where chuck gets his awesome roundhouse from. Doesnt anybody read the bible anymore?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Poppa

    Poppa Well-Known Member

    I don't read any of Chuck's books...

    Is that his autobiography or something?
     
  5. Evil_Pai

    Evil_Pai Active Member

    (I find it quite funny how people join a virtua fighter forum just to discuss martial arts and not VF .. anyways.

    @Evil_Pai (good name choice, she is evil lol) ,

    correct me if I'm wrong but is your argument/point that TMA are still valid?
    I'm sure most people with any sense are open minded to things,
    but you really can't expect people to believe what someone says about it without evidence.
    With MMA people can see it's effectiveness as showcased on the various mma shows,
    they can practise it in Live training/sparring sessions with a resisting opponent and see it's effectiveness,
    with the TMA's not so much,
    so to be fair what conclussion do you expect people to come to here?

    If it's the attitude/point of "I don't need to prove it's effectivness", then it's also not worth arguing about it , is it really?
    Just be happy knowing what you believe to be true and others can do the same,
    since it's not gonna change either way unless hard evidence breaking either sides beliefs come to light.
    No matter how well written/argued words aint gonna suffice in this instance.


    p.s (Don't mean this to be offensive,
    but hinted at earlier ,
    maybe you can run your posts through WORD spell check before you post as it's difficult to read your words as some of them use incorrect spelling,
    it seems your passionate about this subject when your writing but typing fast leads to errors,
    which leads to people switching off when they can't read your posts, thx) )

    - Haha sorry yes your exactly right i was rushing my posts i'll try be more careful in the future. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Well i totally agree and i do understand how people come to that conclusion and i respect their criticism very much actually.

    Because i dont respect people who are sheep and dont think for themselves or people who bereave in magic mystical methods rather than science.

    I guess its pretty subjective to what people would consider evidence. But to me personally even before i used it ving tsuns science added up.

    And it was the basis of bruce lee's thinking retain whats useful reject whats useless.

    The problem is that what the majority of schools of ving tsun teach is of such poor quality that more and more that is the image presented of ving tsun.

    Thats why it gets me upset because i think its a truly brilliant style and could teach people a differnt to think about fighting.

    When i see hung gar or something being practiced it looks stupid and unrealistic but you have to understand that just like with ving tsun now unfortunately many kung fu styles have been misinterpreted and changed over long periods of time to styles that have very little effectiveness.

    HOWEVER while what i see practiced of hung gar on the internet looks bad DOSENT mean that there isnt a good school of that system still remaining.

    And thanks to ving tsun i feel i can actually tell what the intent of the system is. Whether it be based on circular movements or linear ones i can tell the strengths of it that can be refined and the weaknesses that can be weeded out.

    The reason i would credit ving tsun with giving me knowledge about how other chinese systems may have originally been intended to be used is that ving tsun is the most simplified and refined version of kung fu that i know of.

    By that im not saying its beats all other kung fu infact your probably losing alot of skill in ving tsuns smaller system. But rather that it is far less prone to being misunderstood.

    And yet still the majority of it out in the public eye is.
    Its very sad and i realy dont want the way of chinese thinkng to be lost.

    Most of what people recognise as good fighting styles are all external in method and western thinking can understand this so it flourishes.

    However not many foreigner really understand what internal martial arts are about and the chi model which may very well teach people greater control of their body has been taken far to literally and now you have fools/conmen claiming they can knock an opponent out with chi energy balls.

    While chi has no place in ving tsun which is purely scientific what so ever i believe just like mental imagery in meditation or the breathing exercises in tai chi that chi is just a model for gaining greater control of your body.

    It realy dosent matter whether it is real or not what matters is the results.

    Today it seems to me not to many people care about the little intricacies of fighting thinking that fighting is so chaotic that its impossible to do things 100% right.

    I disagree and while mistakes will always be made its no reason to let fighting get messy.

    My point being that if you tuck your shoulder in rather than leave it out loose, sift your weight just right with a stance that reinforces your structure and plants you FIRMLY on the ground as well as exhale contracting all the right muscles and bighting the ligaments that you can throw a truly powerful strike that without those little intricacies wouldn’t even be half as powerful.


    When an architect sets about making plans for a building taking in mathematical calculations he doesn’t just take vague estimations about measurements. He has to be EXACT and i strongly believe fighting should be and CAN BE done with the same level of precision.

    No a real fight is nothing like a demonstration but that doesn’t mean that the science thought cannot be applied under pressure.

    Honestly in my experience it sounds more impossible than it really is. A good fighting system should be flowing so that if mistakes occur its not a bit deal and so that the whole thing doesn’t just fall to bits and you can keep fighting.

    Though people dont seem to think so good kung fu styles do have this if they are thought well.

    BTW i am pretty sure that ving tsun is a distilled system of shaolin crane and snake kung fu styles as thats what the forms resemble.

    I believe that when such styles are named they are named because they LOOK like the movements of that animal NOT that they should be trying to MIMIC the movements of that animal which is stupid since we are humans and not tigers or snakes or cranes /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    I totally agree with your points and normaly I don’t bother to argue on the internet with keybord warriors (not that im calling vanity or shadowdean keybord warriors) but I get so frustrated with all the naysayers and style bashing when people realy don’t know enough about the subject to truly know what they are talking about that I feel I have to provide a voice for the voiceless.

    I am not a kung fu expert and im not pretending to be but I do have a very good scientific understanding of the ving tsun system that is so lacking in just about everything calling itself ving tsun.

    Those are just my thoughts anyway sorry if im ranting :p
     
  6. Evil_Pai

    Evil_Pai Active Member

    With that said i woul like to appoligise to any practitioner of brazliain jiu jitsu who i might have offended with my comments.

    To be honestl my opinian of the style is bias because i have had bad experiences with some students and also i do not respect the gracies method of lieing to gain notariaty for the style which they have done.

    Even so whithin it are techniques that will work since it is based apon judo which is a style i have the upmost respect for.

    On that note Kaminari_Oyaji i have totaly embarresed myself by forgeting the period in which jigoro kano lived. So its rather unlikely he had any influence with aikido which was developed after ww2.

    I have always been interested in learning judo as well as shaui jiao Kaminari_Oyaji tell me do you know of any judo schools that teach the more dangerous techniques that where removed from jujitsu?

    I like the idea of judos refinement very much however i dont like the idea that it has lost more lethal techniques as thats the sort of thing im interested in learning.

    I would call judo an internal martial art and a very good one at that when properly thought but im critical of how many schools are actualy good.

    Any imformation would be good and thank you very much for the link /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
     
  7. Stl_Tim

    Stl_Tim Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Evil_Pai said:
    I have always been interested in learning judo as well as shaui jiao Kaminari_Oyaji tell me do you know of any judo schools that teach the more dangerous techniques that where removed from jujitsu?

    I like the idea of judos refinement very much however i dont like the idea that it has lost more lethal techniques as thats the sort of thing im interested in learning.

    I would call judo an internal martial art and a very good one at that when properly thought but im critical of how many schools are actualy good.

    Any imformation would be good and thank you very much for the link /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]


    You hit on some very good points...

    Strayed teachings:
    The instructor now who once was the student has strayed away from the original art form when it was created. Yes, it is very difficult to find a legit instructor for various arts and sadly in this area most are laughable. I wouldn't feel safe recommending any certain one from my limited experience. I usually just pick one try it out and see if I like it. I never go by word of mouth, because everyone's perspective is different and everyone learns differently.

    Locating Judo's roots:
    Judo was made into a sport and taken away from it's brutal ways hence the word translated, gentle way. To find the original root of judo I'd imagine alot of places in Japan probably could offer you that service for the right type of money. I remember on my last trip visiting my in-laws in Japan my wife pointed out a karate dojo. She said that this dojo was famous for teaching the lethal side of karate. She went into description about some of her old neighbors who had taken it a longtime ago and if you knew someone had trained in this art they were not to be messed with ever. It came off as I am a nice person, but if you threaten my life I will take yours no questions asked. So it's safe to say that if this place is still around today, I'm sure you can find the root teachings of jigoro kano there as well.

    My outlook towards Judo:
    Judo for me is a good workout, helps focus the mind, and humbles me frequently. One reason I like judo is that it dosen't focus on strikes from my limited experience at this point. It makes me really understand what a martial art or should I say self defense is all about, defending yourself. I have taken tae-kwon-do and karate and these instructors reminded me of the cobra kai group from the movie karate kid, lol. (Example)Let's build an angry uncontrollable kid into a kid that now can focus his anger and inflict damage. Package this with raging hormones and a high school mentality and presto tons of trouble. I guess this is just my stereotype, but I see it all too often. If I had to pick one martial art to sum up self defense I would say aikido. Basicly, you are using the energy that the opponet is using against you against them. From knowing that we could say then I am at peace with myself all the time until person A decides to attack me. This for me I feel is the final goal to be at peace with oneself and not the opposite where I am sitting at home and thinking of where and when to try out my new attack. Anyway, that's my two cents on this topic.

    Peace^_^
     
  8. vanity

    vanity Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Evil_Pai said:
    I have always been interested in learning judo as well as shaui jiao Kaminari_Oyaji tell me do you know of any judo schools that teach the more dangerous techniques that where removed from jujitsu?

    I like the idea of judos refinement very much however i dont like the idea that it has lost more lethal techniques as thats the sort of thing im interested in learning.


    [/ QUOTE ] Christ just when i was about to take this guy seriously he goes off and says something like this.
     
  9. GLC

    GLC Well-Known Member

    That'll teach you not to take anyone seriously again!

    Honestly, every now and then such thread pops up and it's all the same shit... Yeah, like I'm saying something new... I guess props go to Evil_Pai for quoting other people's posts without ever specifying which part is the quote. Other than that, way to go moron - and you people even reply to his "arguments".

    Here's a lethal judo technique - convince someone to jump on their head. Preferably someone who discusses martial arts, religion or politics here.
     
  10. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    can't we combine them all? Like what would a martial art based around the teachings of christ but co-opted by the higher ranks of the government (especially those shadowy figures orchestrating the NWO) look like?

    GE
     
  11. GLC

    GLC Well-Known Member

    Don't forget shooting someone in the ass with a dart gun.
     
  12. Evil_Pai

    Evil_Pai Active Member

    Ummm what?

    You guys are pathetic first your telling me how greate bjj is and now you seem to be saying a neck crank cant be lethal?

    WTF are you on about?
     
  13. Evil_Pai

    Evil_Pai Active Member

    i think you misread my post.
    I didnt say judo had lethal techniques and jujitsu didnt i was asking where can i find schools that teachthe lethal techniques of jujitsu in the refinment of judo.

    Now again why cant you take that seriously?
     
  14. Evil_Pai

    Evil_Pai Active Member

    If you are going to tell me BJJ is better i will laugh in your face.

    I have one name KIMURA
     
  15. GLC

    GLC Well-Known Member

    Way to go writing 3 consecutive posts in 5 minutes (at least they're replied to 2 different people). Still, you have advanced from "moron" to "fucking moron". Congrats!
     
  16. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    POWER UP! ehhehehee
     
  17. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    "`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

    "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!"

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the manxome foe he sought --
    So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
    And stood awhile in thought.

    And, as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    One, two! One, two! And through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
    Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    `Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe."

    GE
     
  18. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    plague-cwa
    XBL:
    HowBoutSmPLAGUE
    Effening the Jabberwock!

    Slain with bento!
     
  19. Evil_Pai

    Evil_Pai Active Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    GLC said:

    Way to go writing 3 consecutive posts in 5 minutes (at least they're replied to 2 different people). Still, you have advanced from "moron" to "fucking moron". Congrats!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I love how you BJJ zealots can only make personal attacks like the thugs you are not actualy dispute what i say.

    I dont know an awfule lot about judo otherwise i would be asking about finding good schools. I have read alot of books seen some videos thats it.

    I have also read alot of books seen videos AND been tought some basic BJJ. IM NOT IMPRESSED.

    But you think that beating a few psudo judo practitioners prooves anything?

    Just like ving tsun or whatever martial art that has become widely popular judo has been focusing far to much on trying not to get ipponed than actual fighting.

    Alot of the more dangerous techniques have been lost and schools now focus almost purely on the sport it seems.

    Mabey they dont teach you guys this in the gracie jiujitsu zealot academy.

    But in traditional jujitsu samurai would try to break an opponants back/neck WHILST throwing him.

    At the very least this would make sense as from my understanding jujitsu is derived from chinese china na only the japanese changed it alittle.

    And chinese chin na focusus on breaking or at least damaging your opponents vertebra/joints/spinal tissue.

    Its called war not sport /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    They didnt overemphasie ground fighting because thats stupid. You do that and it wont take long for you to get hurt either by the enviroment or your enemys friends.

    i should have been more articulate about what i was trying to describe as "lethal" techniques as the more dangerous joint locks/bone breaks.

    So wow you critises the fact people reply to my *INSERT OBNOXIOUS QUOTATIONS HERE>"arguments"<INSERT OBNOXIOUS QUOTATIONS HERE*

    Mabey they have a better sense to critque my posts and try learn and discuss something like adults,
    All you guys have done is slander my charictor but hey if you want to get nasty i could always call you bill o'reilys D!CK riding narcissistic little gimp whore!

    But hey thats only what doucbags and zit faceed 14 year olds do. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Fact 1 gracies are liers.
    Fact 2 kimura broke heilos arm.

    Dont give me some shit about kimura being so much stronger their weights are comparable.
    The gracies always like to propagate that helio was so much smaller in size than kimura yet from the footage i have seen this greatly exagerated.

    Fact 3 what i said is new and i certainly havent read posts like mine anywhere else on these bords you claim its the same shit all the time so why dont you post a sample smartarse?

    I wouldent have said anything unless i had felt the need the world would rather listen to another opinian then your bullshit.

    You want to discreit my points? Start by discrediting MY POINTS rather than attacking me persionaly like a weak basterd.
     
  20. Evil_Pai

    Evil_Pai Active Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    GodEater said:

    "`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

    "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!"

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the manxome foe he sought --
    So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
    And stood awhile in thought.

    And, as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    One, two! One, two! And through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
    Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.

    `Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe."

    GE

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If your implying i have been slain i must digress. /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif
     

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