Bush admits mistakes

Re: Lil' Wingnuts

VithDos, shut the fuck up {leave your successful business to someone else one night} and go play vf with the nyc crew. /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[ QUOTE ]
kungfusmurf said:

Come meet the ignorant morons that we are & we'll have some fun matches besides I know everyone would love to meet u. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Speak for yourself, YAAFI. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Re: Lil' Wingnuts



Okay, let's start over.

There's a little bit of internet fun time to be had on vfdc and everyone here can appreciate that you are indulging yourself and having a good time.

The thing is though, this isn't 100% internet fun time for most of the regulars...it's how we connect to others who share our hobby and occasionally similar interests, likes & dislikes. We have friends here...people who've shown us hospitality or to whom we've shown hospitality.

This is why Jerky was ready to break your neck a few pages back. You are fucking with our boys. Dude, if you have any interest in virtua fighter you big time owe it to yourself to track down the NYC crew and get going. Myself and other members of this forum have travelled thousands of miles to play this game with others...get from in front of the monitor and go meet some people. Tell them you were just having some kicks in good fun and ask them how you need to deal with this vf situation you just got raped in or that vf situation you just got raped in.

If all you are interested in in internet funtime, then you need to understand that you have been owned the fuck for awhile now. Frankly, I'm surprised you haven't had "property of mister simonson" tatoo'd on the small of your back by now. Get from in front of the monitor, do that, and then go hook up with the NYC crew.

 

Re: Lil' Wingnuts

hehehe shag. i already scheduled somone to work for me i will be there. can one of you Ny heads pm me the addres again

 

Re: Lil' Wingnuts

[ QUOTE ]
WARCHILD said:

......

What else fails to surprise me on this forum? Ah, yes, the fact that just about everyone who replies to me has said something to the extent of "you don't matter, you are worthless" etc, yet you idiots keep posting these fucking short story-length rebuttals to me! Now, if I really didn't matter, wouldn't this thread have died a long time ago?

.........

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing I know for certain, is that you matter. Conservative power-bases in the US and everywhere else are made almost entirely of people like you. People like you err greatly by consistently vote against their own best interests by voting for conservative candidates and agendas. You've bought into their ideas and think that they are your own; but they really aren't.

You sound like a white, lower - to lower middle class person. What do you gain from legalizing illegal immigrants and instantly increasing the labor supply by 11 million people?.......You don't gain anything from it; you stand to lose. Yet the people you are defending are trying to do this. You have to wait tables in order to make ends meet. What do you gain from a tax cut that only cuts taxes on income above $1 million per year? What do you gain from the government borrowing further into deficit to finance a tax cut that you will never see on your return?.......You don't gain anything from it; you stand to lose. Yet the people you are defending have done this already. They have done it twice if I am not mistaken. What do you gain from having the government monitor your phone calls without getting a warrant? What do you gain from the government holding people without trial? You don't gain anything from any of it and you stand to lose from all of it. Yet you defend the people who hurt you the most.

People like you think that Bush and other conservative politicians are "one of you." But they are not. Conservative use various ethnic, emotional issues to provoke emotional responses from people like you and make you think that they are on your side. They are not on your side. They use people like you as a tool. Like a pimp uses prostitutes. As soon as conservatives get power they sell people like you up the river. When election year comes they misdirect your attention to another racial or ethnic group and proclaim that they are a threat to your way of life. And out of fear you and people like you vote conservative.....that is why the majority of conservatives are so hostile to anyone who is not exactly like them, they are afraid of everything. That is everything except the conservative who are the only people that actually hurt them.

I wish that you could see your fear for what it is, and learn to distinguish what is truly a threat to you from what isn't. When you learn to do that you can judge politicians on their actions and vote according to the only true criteria, that being "how is this going to help or hurt me?"

 

Poke Poke

Dude, have you been reading Thomas Frank?

But yeah, soon all those white working class males are going to realize that the uncomfortable poking sensation between their buttcheeks is actually the turgid dong of the government they put in power.

 

Re: Poke Poke

A nice little bit of the gov helping the little folk, like Halliburton.

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democrats.com%2Fnode%2F9271

 

Re: Poke Poke

[ QUOTE ]
DissMaster said:

Dude, have you been reading Thomas Frank?

But yeah, soon all those white working class males are going to realize that the uncomfortable poking sensation between their buttcheeks is actually the turgid dong of the government they put in power.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't even know who he is. Two questions....

1. Why do you ask that?
2. Should I read some of his work?

 

Re: Poke Poke

Thomas Frank is the author of What's the Matter with Kanas? a book about how the GOP has bamboozled white working and middle class Americans in the heartland by emphasizing cultural issues to obscure the corporate greed that shapes the GOP's true agenda.

It's a good book.

More recently, Frank wrote a piece that so obliterated his target (TIME magazine's Joe Klein) that I almost felt bad for the dumb bastard.

Here is that article if you are interested:

Frank vs. Klein

Frank's review of Klein's book is a few pages long, but priceless if you like to see faulty reasoning deconstructed and evicerated by a clever writer and thinker.

I think that Mr. Frank usually omits any forcible sodomy metaphors, but that is what the internet is for.

 

Re: Poke Poke

 

Cryptic Post

What mean dancing locks?

 

Re: Cryptic Post

It most likely means "lock the thread"

 

Re: Cryptic Post

Oh.

Why?

 

Re: Cryptic Post

Ask him ^^;

 

Re: Cryptic Post

I don't see why it should be locked. It was obviously intended to be a political thread and that is what it is. The title isn't misleading at all.

 

Re: Poke Poke

[ QUOTE ]
DissMaster said:

Thomas Frank is the author of What's the Matter with Kanas? a book about how the GOP has bamboozled white working and middle class Americans in the heartland by emphasizing cultural issues to obscure the corporate greed that shapes the GOP's true agenda.



[/ QUOTE ]

Has anyone here read Vaccine-A? the so-called support our troops thing that was so emphasized by military officials was just BS that even they didn't care about.

 

Re: Poke Poke

Well, Darrius, I'd agree with every point you made...if only I was on the same ideological page as you. However, if you ask me how tax cuts for those who make high salaries benefits me (everyone received a tax cut, but OK, I'll play along), I'd simply tell you that cutting taxes spurs GDP growth in an economy. This, obviously, is a textbook conservative view on economics, but your view that the cuts were made only to benefit the rich is a textbook leftist view. After the tax cuts were passed into law, and interest rate went down below 1%, growth indeed skyrocketed. Now you can go ahead and attribute that fact to anything you'd like, but my view is that the investor class, the upper class, is extremely important to America's economy. Sure, the Enrons of the world are a shame, but you have criminals at all levels of economic life.
My problem with people like you is that you can't just accept that some people are ideologically different than yourself. It's the intolerant political view that just because someone disagrees with you on the issues, they must be idiots who don't know any better. Conservatives don't really believe in their own views, they are just fearful and are fooled into believing certain things. It's bullshit; it's your way of avoiding an intelligent argument. Not that it's possible to have such an argument on this forum (which is why I simply dropped to everyone else's level and decided to play the insult game), but there are at least some liberals out there who will just agree to disagree with me, provide an intelligent, conspiracy-free argument in favor of their views, and accept that I have good cause to believe what I do.
There are those few intellectuals who will still give the opposing side the common courtesy they deserve by not labeling them a fool because they believe differently. Conservatives aren't all a bunch of blind Bush-followers who agree with everything the President does. My conservative friends and I, when we talk about the issues, constantly complain about the job Congress and the President is doing. We certainly know that most of these guys we're voting into office are saying one thing during election season, and another when it comes time to do the job. But this is the nature of politics; most politicians, on either side of the aisle, do not have the guts to fulfill the promises they made to their base voters. Most liberals have the same exact complaint about the Democratic party. To me, this doesn't mean you just give up on your political values. It just means that you have to be more careful in who you support during party primaries, and become more active in your political party. I'm not the type who sits back and complains about how fucked up everything is. It's too easy to come up with out-of-this-universe theories on what the government's doing, and why they're doing it. I prefer to leave that nonsense to the Oliver Stones of this world. I'd rather just work harder to promote my political views through party activism.

I don't mind working at a restaurant for money; I make good enough money to support my current lifestyle. I can pay my bills on time, and have enough free time and extra money to hang out too. I'm not the type to sit on my ass and complain that I work at a regular job because the government decided to screw me over this way and that. What should I expect at the age off 22, when I don't even have my Master's yet? That the government's going to completely take care of me, like they do in Scandinavia, and I'll be living life everyday like it's a vacation? Sorry, my worldview is a bit more realistic than that. The truth is, I DON'T trust the government, contrary to what you believe about me; I don't trust them with my income tax money, my social security money, or any other type of tax that is leveed upon me. I'm a capitalist 'till the bitter end; I want social security almost completely privatized, as with healthcare, union-free education systems, and most importantly no income tax whatsoever. I do believe people can spend their own money better than the government can, as Ronald Reagan believed. Why should I be ashamed of that? Such a view is still a popular one in America, in my mind the majority view, and its relevancy is demonstrated by the popularity of candidates who say such things around election time. It's easier to get voted into office on that platform than it is on a "big government" platform. Democrats know this, which is why they never really come out anymore and say they believe in big government. A Conservative, though, can proudly state what he/she believes and get elected. That says a lot. Like it or not, conservatism is not going away anytime soon. By the way, anyone who has actually lived under fascism would either laugh histerically or be utterly insulted at the accusations that the American government is currently fascist, and akin to the brownshirts. Look at these people who have it so good living in this country, complaining about fascism! It's absolutely histerical, but sad at the same time. You deserve to live in a real fascist country to see what it's really like. You'd be begging to live under the Bush administration in no time.

 

So we're back to speaking like adults now are we?

I am glad to see you turned down the asshole meter on your points, and I was actually able to read through your post without dieing of laughter.

I think if you reexamine your first post (and possibly the following couple) you go off on tangents that the origional poster wasn't even addressing. Once you bug out, you are fair game. Its not that we don't want to have a meaningful discussion about polotics in our country, but when you start off so badly, why bother?

As for your political views, you are correct when you say we differ idealogically (to say the least). To me, the corruption in this particular government is very far from excusable, no matter what very menial positive things they might accomplish. Seriously, for me to say Bush and Co. did a good job at this point he would have to, umm... cure cancer. I'm just kidding, but really they would have to spin themselves 180 degrees, which they do on a frequent basis but never in a positive way.

My arguments lie in the current administrations choice of ethical and legal problems. We have laws for reasons (most of the time), and I, as a citizen, am expected to follow them. The people who run the government should be expected to do the same no matter what status they hold. I think the constitution and the bill of rights and all those amendments and treaties the government has signed should stand for something. The people who are meant to protect those laws and keep this country civil are blatantly disreguarding them and abusing the power we the people granted them.

I guess you could say my "problem" is, I don't believe the democratic or republican philosophy on how to make this country better. I believe they are both exceedingly corrupt and way too full of self interest. I mean this country has the power to do basically whatever we want, plain and simple. If we wanted, we could effectively end poverty in this country in a couple decades. If we wanted, every public school in our country could be just as well funded and great as any mid tier private school. If we wanted we could be the cleanest country in the world. I think we do want all that, but our government, surely, is not providing any of it.

So where do we differ? GDP doesn't mean shit to me. Taxes, honestly, don't really mean shit to me either. Republicans and democrats, dont mean shit to me. The rights and privacy our troops die to protect matters to me. My country doing whats best for itself and the world abroad matters to me. And the rights and well being of all people we affect matter to me.

What I really would like to know is, honestly, all jokes aside, what matters to you?

ps: As for conspiracies in our government ... sigh... its so easy to dismiss the word but lets look at the definition:

1) a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act
2) a plot to carry out some harmful, immoral, or illegal act (especially a political plot)
3) a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful, immoral, or illegal purpose

Jack Abramoff, Haliburton in Iraq and New Orleans, Earmarking in congress for personal gain, Elevating cronies to positions that would put civilians in danger, and lying to the country about very important subjects, are all conspiracies. Don't dismiss these things so easily.

 

Re: So we're back to speaking like adults now are we?

[ QUOTE ]
Vith_Dos said:

I am glad to see you turned down the asshole meter on your points, and I was actually able to read through your post without dieing of laughter.

I think if you reexamine your first post (and possibly the following couple) you go off on tangents that the origional poster wasn't even addressing. Once you bug out, you are fair game. Its not that we don't want to have a meaningful discussion about polotics in our country, but when you start off so badly, why bother?

As for your political views, you are correct when you say we differ idealogically (to say the least). To me, the corruption in this particular government is very far from excusable, no matter what very menial positive things they might accomplish. Seriously, for me to say Bush and Co. did a good job at this point he would have to, umm... cure cancer. I'm just kidding, but really they would have to spin themselves 180 degrees, which they do on a frequent basis but never in a positive way.

My arguments lie in the current administrations choice of ethical and legal problems. We have laws for reasons (most of the time), and I, as a citizen, am expected to follow them. The people who run the government should be expected to do the same no matter what status they hold. I think the constitution and the bill of rights and all those amendments and treaties the government has signed should stand for something. The people who are meant to protect those laws and keep this country civil are blatantly disreguarding them and abusing the power we the people granted them.

I guess you could say my "problem" is, I don't believe the democratic or republican philosophy on how to make this country better. I believe they are both exceedingly corrupt and way too full of self interest. I mean this country has the power to do basically whatever we want, plain and simple. If we wanted, we could effectively end poverty in this country in a couple decades. If we wanted, every public school in our country could be just as well funded and great as any mid tier private school. If we wanted we could be the cleanest country in the world. I think we do want all that, but our government, surely, is not providing any of it.

So where do we differ? GDP doesn't mean shit to me. Taxes, honestly, don't really mean shit to me either. Republicans and democrats, dont mean shit to me. The rights and privacy our troops die to protect matters to me. My country doing whats best for itself and the world abroad matters to me. And the rights and well being of all people we affect matter to me.

What I really would like to know is, honestly, all jokes aside, what matters to you?

ps: As for conspiracies in our government ... sigh... its so easy to dismiss the word but lets look at the definition:

1) a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act
2) a plot to carry out some harmful, immoral, or illegal act (especially a political plot)
3) a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful, immoral, or illegal purpose

Jack Abramoff, Haliburton in Iraq and New Orleans, Earmarking in congress for personal gain, Elevating cronies to positions that would put civilians in danger, and lying to the country about very important subjects, are all conspiracies. Don't dismiss these things so easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

(Applause)
(Standing ovation)

 

Re: So we're back to speaking like adults now are we?

[ QUOTE ]
WARCHILD said:

Well, Darrius, I'd agree with every point you made...if only I was on the same ideological page as you.

1. -- However, if you ask me how tax cuts for those who make high salaries benefits me (everyone received a tax cut, but OK, I'll play along), I'd simply tell you that cutting taxes spurs GDP growth in an economy. This, obviously, is a textbook conservative view on economics, but your view that the cuts were made only to benefit the rich is a textbook leftist view.

2. -- but my view is that the investor class, the upper class, is extremely important to America's economy. Sure, the Enrons of the world are a shame, but you have criminals at all levels of economic life.

3. -- My problem with people like you is that you can't just accept that some people are ideologically different than yourself. It's the intolerant political view that just because someone disagrees with you on the issues, they must be idiots who don't know any better. Conservatives don't really believe in their own views,

3a. -- they are just fearful and are fooled into believing certain things. It's bullshit; it's your way of avoiding an intelligent argument. Not that it's possible to have such an argument on this forum (which is why I simply dropped to everyone else's level and decided to play the insult game),

3b. -- but there are at least some liberals out there who will just agree to disagree with me, provide an intelligent, conspiracy-free argument in favor of their views, and accept that I have good cause to believe what I do.
There are those few intellectuals who will still give the opposing side the common courtesy they deserve by not labeling them a fool because they believe differently.

4. -- Conservatives aren't all a bunch of blind Bush-followers who agree with everything the President does. My conservative friends and I, when we talk about the issues, constantly complain about the job Congress and the President is doing. We certainly know that most of these guys we're voting into office are saying one thing during election season, and another when it comes time to do the job. But this is the nature of politics; most politicians, on either side of the aisle, do not have the guts to fulfill the promises they made to their base voters. Most liberals have the same exact complaint about the Democratic party. To me, this doesn't mean you just give up on your political values. It just means that you have to be more careful in who you support during party primaries, and become more active in your political party. I'm not the type who sits back and complains about how fucked up everything is.

5. -- It's too easy to come up with out-of-this-universe theories on what the government's doing, and why they're doing it. I prefer to leave that nonsense to the Oliver Stones of this world. I'd rather just work harder to promote my political views through party activism.

I don't mind working at a restaurant for money; I make good enough money to support my current lifestyle. I can pay my bills on time, and have enough free time and extra money to hang out too.

I'm not the type to sit on my ass and complain that I work at a regular job because the government decided to screw me over this way and that. What should I expect at the age off 22, when I don't even have my Master's yet? That the government's going to completely take care of me, like they do in Scandinavia, and I'll be living life everyday like it's a vacation? Sorry, my worldview is a bit more realistic than that.

6. -- The truth is, I DON'T trust the government, contrary to what you believe about me; I don't trust them with my income tax money, my social security money, or any other type of tax that is leveed upon me.

7. -- I'm a capitalist 'till the bitter end; I want social security almost completely privatized, as with healthcare, union-free education systems, and most importantly no income tax whatsoever. I do believe people can spend their own money better than the government can, as Ronald Reagan believed.

Why should I be ashamed of that? Such a view is still a popular one in America, in my mind the majority view, and its relevancy is demonstrated by the popularity of candidates who say such things around election time. It's easier to get voted into office on that platform than it is on a "big government" platform. Democrats know this, which is why they never really come out anymore and say they believe in big government.

8 -- A Conservative, though, can proudly state what he/she believes and get elected. That says a lot. Like it or not, conservatism is not going away anytime soon.

By the way, anyone who has actually lived under fascism would either laugh histerically or be utterly insulted at the accusations that the American government is currently fascist, and akin to the brownshirts. Look at these people who have it so good living in this country, complaining about fascism! It's absolutely histerical, but sad at the same time. You deserve to live in a real fascist country to see what it's really like. You'd be begging to live under the Bush administration in no time.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. You are thinking of a different tax cut. Congress has cut taxes 4 or 5 times since Bush took office. I am specifically thinking of a $70 billion that essentially effected only people who made $1 million or more. Immediately before that, on that same day, Congress also passed a bill that cut funding for school lunches and medicaid by $70 billion.

2. The investor class is important to the economy. But so is every other class of people. No class is any more or less important than any other.

3. I can understand just fine that people have different ideological view. When people's views support their own bests interests I can understand (not necessarily agree with) an argument of why they should fight for them in spite of how it affects others. But poor Republicans too often have views that support their own best interest. It is not that they are idiots, but that they have been misdirected, and have been taught ideas by someone looking from a different point of view.

3a. Republicans are, however, fearful or other groups of people more often than not. Take the war in Iraq for instance. Did Republicans honestly believe that Iraq, a country without an airplane, was a threat to the US? They were fooled into being afraid of Iraq.

Throughout the build-up to that war and the election in 2004 I was as debating with Bush supporters, saying that all the things that have been verified now. a) That Iraq had no WMD. b) That there were no terrorists in Iraq c) that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. d) that Iraq was not a material threat to the US ,and that they would not be a threat in the foreseeable future.

Practically all Republicans however, were still afraid from 9/11 and were easily convinced that any Arab country supported terrorism and thus were foolishly Gung-Ho over the idea of starting a war.

Bush supporters were frightened by Gay marriage. For the record I am actually against Gay marriage. However, I know it is completely irrelevant to contemporary society and highly unlikely to have any impact.....at least not for another 1,000 years. The GOP preyed on the public's fear of making new gay people and rode that to a Presidential victory.

My point is that the GOP needs for the public to be afraid of something in order to support it. They have to point to a war, or a minority or some group of foreigners in order to gain the support of the common man. An ordinary poor man, or rather an ordinary non-millionaire has to feel that Republicans will protect him and his way of life from some perceived threat in order to support them.

3b. The world works the way that it works, whether you believe it or not. It is what it is. Saying that you have a different ideological view is not sufficient justification for rejecting other arguments.

4. Bush is not the sole champion of the pro-rich so-called conservative agenda. It is bigger than Bush.

If you know that they are selling you up the river what are you going to do about it? You only have three options.

i. Continue to vote for them even though the don't help you.
ii. Vote for the other guy.
iii. Don't vote at all.

You ever ask yourself why they (Republican politicians) turn on the little guy once they get elected?

5. I wasn't coming up with any conspircy theories everything I said has actually happened and been reported by the press. Bush really did hold a man, a US citizen for 2 year without a trial or even an arraignment (spelling?) Bush told us himself that he is listening without warrants.

6. But you do trust to risk your life in war? You trust the government to monitor our phone calls without getting warrants. You don't trust the government with your money. You do know that as a citizen you are a part owner of the government. I suppose you trust private business in which you have no ownership stake and get no vote in their management.

7. Everything has to be owned buy someone so the question is will it be owned by everyone or will it be owned by a few. The purest capitalist system on record was also the purest monarchy on record. That was ancient Egypt. It was so pure in both forms because there was only one rule: The Pharoah owned everything. All the people, all the houses, all the crops, all the money [PERIOD] That is what aristocracies are, private everything. Public everything is communism. Oddly enough both economic systems end up crushing the common man.

Some things have to be owned by all the people because that is the only way to ensure justice and just distribution of resources. Some things have to be held in private hands because society needs the profit motive and the decentralization of power.

You are capitalist to the bitter end, huh. I am a capitalist; you are not, you are an aristocrat, or a least you want to be. You can't have captialism or free government without reasonableness. Your aversion to all taxes is unreasonable.

---How can you have social security if its private? Is the government going to force you to spend your money with private businessman A? What if you don't like him? What if he is sleeping with your wife; is the government going to force you to do business with him anyway? What if you want to keep your money in your pocket?
---Why can't teachers have a union? Is the government going; to use it's power to prevent teachers from organizing? How is the government going to pay these police or will the different corporations all use their own private security?
How would you have public education in the first place?

8. -- Not really, conservative get elected mostly by drawing attention to social politics that they don't care about. If they told people about there fiscal policies they would be hard-pressed to get votes from the common people.

Please forgive the typos and errors. I'll proof it later.

 

Re: Poke Poke

Hey WAR-CHILDFUCKER,

You seems to believe you have a lots of smart shit you have to share with the world. Now for a minute I'm going to put a side the fact you bus table for a living and assume you aren't a pyscho dumbass who has no life and spends his day cut, paste and posting on the internet to pass time (which is what you are and what you are doing, but i'm going to put aside that and give you the benefit of the doubt for minute...). But why do you keep on trying to have intellectual debates on a videogame message board? Aren't you smart enough to figure out the average people here are 15 year old retards that knows absolutely nothing about what you are talking about. I mean seriously if you want to have intellectual conversations about politics, domestic affairs, and what not. I'm sure there are plenty of websites and forums out there with people eagerly waiting for you. The only thing you did here was to flame vith-dos and srider pretty hardcore (which is nice btw), other than that no one really cares or know what the fuck you are talking about...
So why don't you google some other websites where people are as smart as you and talk your heart out? Unless you enjoy randomly talk about shit to people, which would makes you... a pyscho dumbass who has no life and spends his day cut, paste and posting on the internet to pass time and bus table for a living.. I cut/pasted that one btw.

PS: Here's a tip for you next time you are at work. Just say, "Would you like fries with that?", I promise you'll make some extra income for that Master degree you are trying to get. =) You can thank me later.

WAR-CHILDFUCKER said "most importantly no income tax whatsoever"
Oh being a waiter btw, you know shit about paying taxes. How about shutting down that computer and putting down that book and step outside for a minute there? Don't trip and fall on dog shit on the way out my friend, it's ruff out there.

OH I SAID I WANT FRIES with this SHIT!

Peace out.