Character Loyalty, Kage Power

Hmm, the point was that character loyalty is most powerful, even when actually a person's natural style may not fit with that character. I agree this could have come out more, but that was the original intention behind the thread....

I had used myself as the example, but looking at all this, I probably should have used something else. Well, it's certainly fun posting here at VFDC.

 

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ice-9 said:

So, Jacky instead of Sarah. Jeffry instead of Wolf. Lau instead of Pai. Akira instead of Goh (though I have trouble with Akira's execution...no problems with theory). OS Vanessa instead of DS Vanessa. Etc.



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I find that really interesting. I pick Goh over Akira, DS Vanessa over OS Vanessa, Wolf over Jeffry, Pai over Lau (but Aoi over Pai). Funny how these things go...

 

Hey Jeff, I totally agree with what you say about character loyalty. Remember that I was whining about FT Akira and that I feel like switching to Jeffrey like what Adam did? I stuck on like you told me and my Akira is finally FT style.

Finally, you have too much 'enemies' here. It difficult to get neutral comments on what you feel. All you start is 'wars'. I'm sure you know what's happening. Anyway, you already got a japanese experienced Kage here. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

LOL, yeah tell me about it! You know how I am with making friends.

Go with Akira--your Akira definitely has the potential to get a Gold/Brown/Copper rank in Japan. You can pick up Jeffry any time and be good with him, but Akira's the type of character that if you neglect you'll have a hard time returning to.

 

i lost my 4th dan goh ft card (im a super newb, i have no skills and i play arguably the weakest character) and i had to buy a new one. and even though i never see ANY goh players anymore, character loyalty made me choose goh for my new card. hahahah. geez, i just love to take a beating.

im gonna pick taka-arashi when he comes back in 5.

he is coming back goddammit.

 

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Makatiel said:

im gonna pick taka-arashi when he comes back in 5.

he is coming back goddammit.

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The problem is it'd be hard for him to techroll if game wants to be realistic, making all the crazy stuff possible.

 

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maddy said:
The problem is it'd be hard for him to techroll if game wants to be realistic, making all the crazy stuff possible.

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actually my friend and i talked about this at length. he would just have to get special treatment (like akira, shun, jacky, sara oki attacks, etc.). taka had a special animation for kages tft in 3 also so i think it would be possible just a pain in the ass for am2.

as for the specifics of tr and qr, it could just be that taka doesnt actually roll but just stumbles up (and to the side a bit), kind of like if you ukemi brad's throw. for a face up knock down attack, it would be a little bit more awkward, but he could just do a half roll onto his stomach and have the same animation as mentioned earlier. maybe not the prettiest thing in the world, but definitely doable and i wouldnt mind as long as i got taka back.

qr would just have to be special - maybe a backward roll that puts him on his feet (not the bruce lee flip everyone does).

anyway, it'd be a pain and more difficult, but definitely not impossible. too bad taka gets no love even in japan.

 

hehe I remember those mad combos u can do on the guy with Lion. Poor Guy.

 

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If you bring him into VF4 where ukemi is possible, then suddenly you can't land the OTG hits anymore. So, how does one combo against him?

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I don't think it would be much different than what they did for VF3; write different properties surrounding standard rules--ukemi for taka specifically--much the same way they altered the float mechanics and animation/damage for him specifically. Create different options during the ukemi that balance out risk and reward in a similar fashion to his more agile opponents.

Would this mean he couldn't tech until certain conditions were applied (much like the rules for floating now)? maybe. Maybe he couldn't ukemi in the traditional manner but could perform a falling offense, taking smaller damage and rising in attack at the same time creating new pressure options and strats. Maybe he wouldn't fall in the traditional manner but stagger backwards and teching was merely the condition of his regaining balance and creating a neutral situation (it could be that the eventual situation arising from a non teching taka would be that he would fall down as he lost balance entirely, taking fall damage and then have to rise as normal characters). Would this eliminate floating in VF5? only how we define traditional floats and only against Taka.

Taka has always broken the rules. That's what made him interesting to play. In a world of Chimpanzees he was a monkey.

Could it unbalance the game, sure. Could Sega return taka and keep balance? For sure, they would just have to take their time and approach the idea with patience and originality.

My quick thoughts.

GE

 

too true...4 weeks without akira (hi malaysia)

n check out my awesome command errors!
(u know it first hand lol!)

Great game tonight, good friend~
Go wolf!

 

If they made a taka with VF4 rules, they could probably find some easy ways to compensate for lack of float combos... example: moves that float everyone else cause head over heels flop animation on taka. You're guaranteed at least a second strong hit or pounce. Or they could bring back the brutal attack-throw combos, make a knee not knock down but guarantee a throw. It'd be fun.

 

i think it would be overkill to have something below heavyweight with VF4 rules,

i mean combos are already getting alittle too specific nowadays, stance? weight? stance with weight? delay requirements? not even that, character specific! --- it would blow my brians out imo if i have to learn taka as a whole new logic /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

But it wouldn't be overkill, things like weight classes and character specific combos is what makes the game original and fun. And even if it wasn't, learning a new weight class would be a small price to pay to get him back.

 

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mean combos are already getting alittle too specific nowadays, stance? weight? stance with weight? delay requirements? not even that, character specific!

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These things have always been in VF. So, I don't see the leap.

GE

 

Characterspecific or semicharacter specific combos are already in VF. But problem would be to balance him coming back would be trouble and things like that would make it even harder. Sega also has a tendancy to bring in chars a little weak and then bring them up...Easiest would be to just put Taka at Jeff weight. Yes it would probably not be as fun as spec weight but easier.

Btw the fun thing with VF is that there are so unique characters. Normally in a fightinggame chars are still basicly just variations of the system but in VF you chars like Aoi (working best from a small diss), Lei and other totally unique gameplay chars. It's actually a miracle it is as balanced as it is. Taka for teh win.

/KiwE

 

im just saying it isnt that necessary, another character class, another shopping list of complaints.

beisdes, there wasnt nearly as many combo starters and hit types in previous VFs, and now not nearly as many counter classes specifically for specific combos starters.

taka isnt relevent to anything, he would just make up new rules.

 

I don't think there's a fair way to include Taka in the game the way people have suggested. He would contradict many of the "VF Laws of physics", and that's IMO why AM2 removed him.

On the other hand, my solution would be to make him slightly heavier than Jeffry. Although the idea of a sumo wrestler being launched for multi-hit combos is absurd, it's no more absurd than the idea of Jeffry, Wolf (or any character for that matter) being subjected to the same thing.

On the subject of Kage's power:

Since the main issue people have is with A2 , the complaining won't end until it's made throw-counterable. I personally think it should be -8 (not -10) just like SDE supposedly is now. The new jumonji options are great and I would hate to see those toned down.

The main problem I have with Kage is how he compares to Goh in one area: +

Both Goh and Kage's + cause knockdowns after the second hit, and both +'s execute in 16 frames. The difference is that Kage's second hit is something like -6 on block, while Goh's is -14. I've even seen a clip of a Kage player juggling a lightweight character with + after + . Kage's move also happens to be semicircular. Goh's string gives him no combo followup that I'm aware of. Even if it gave a similar damage opportunity, the difference in recovery time is outrageous.

I think both characters' + should be -10.

 

Edit: Myke said everything for me /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif