Choosing a character to stick with...

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replicant said:
It's hard to say how I view most of the characters. I like characters that flow. Example would be that I am a Kazuya player in Tekken (T2, TTT, T4), because he is smooth and natural.

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I'm trying to grasp what you mean exactly here (though I understand a little, just that I also disagree a little) because wd'ing with Kaz was by far the hardest thing I had to learn in a fighter.

I've dabbled with Akira a little, and after playing with him for a while his moves become second nature. But smoothness...hmm...

I guess that opinion differs from person to person. Imho, the two characters that fit your description are Lion and Jeff. But when picking one, you sacrifice some things. Get Lion, and you get good guessing games, but lose power. Get Jeff, you got excellent power, but you can become predictable if you're not careful.

To me, I think Akira is the closest thing to Kaz in vf (even though he's more like Paul imo). You may like Goh. He's very similar to Akira though, but doesn't require the extreme commands and he's more throw-oriented. Brad, I haven't played enough of, but I love muay thai so I'm going to give him a good chance soon.

 

Wavedashing ranks up there with Just Frames, EWGF, HoHo/HaHa/Fox Steps (Lei), and the Hayashida Step (Paul) in Tekken expert level moves. Wavedashing took some work, but I got where I could do it pretty solidly. Being a Mishima player in TTT required that I be able to WD to really compete at a decent level. Even to the point of being able to lightdash, but I need *GOOD* sticks. It's 100x harder to do effectively in T4, but that is because CD Cancels have recovery now. The NAMCO buttmunches even destroyed my WGF. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif Although, I won't get into that here. Wrong forum. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kazuya seems smooth to me, because 95% of the moves he does are perfectly emulated from your hand movements to his onscreen movements. When your hand movements match what you see IMO you get better reaction times, because you are thinking of the moves rather than the series of inputs. I know that once you learn a move solidly, that inputs become second nature. It's just that when what I see doesn't match what I am doing I lose reaction time. To me Paul has more of a similarity to Akira, but nowhere near the input skill needed to be successful.

 

I dunno anything about kazuya, but in terms of your hand movements matching your onscreen movements and fluidity... it's lau. That would definitely be lau you're describing.

 

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CreeD said:

I dunno anything about kazuya, but in terms of your hand movements matching your onscreen movements and fluidity... it's lau. That would definitely be lau you're describing.


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I completely forgot about him /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

Wow. This whole thread is great reading. And "...if the fingers are primed and the eyes & brain & 6th sense are working well, Akira is a goddamned beast." is the phrase that pays, man.

I think the wrong question is being asked. Don't learn how to choose a character to stick with... learn how to stick with a character. Here's how:

I love Sarah because I beat VF1 with her before I beat it with anyone else. I will spend the rest of my life repaying her for that shining moment. This is how I remember it... I think she was like the 4th or 5th character I'd tried to make a run at it with, remember playing Lau, Jacky, Kage before... but I never got to Akira until I got my Sarah on. And when I did, it was the farthest I'd ever gotten... I was so pumped, man. I think I was stuck on him for like a week... all of her flashy kicks, her brilliant air game, the knee, the low kick... none of it seemed to matter at all. Destroyed, destroyed, destroyed... but I wasn't going to go back to square one, oh no. I knew that I could find the key to victory in Sarah if I just looked hard enough. Guess what... it was punches... PUNCHES. I hadn't used her punches the whole time, hadn't needed to. But VF1 Akira went down like a wet sack when I discovered that the P button was one of Sarah's friends, too.

The Lessons I Learn From this Story:
Stage 1: just grab someone based purely on their personality[ b]Stick with them.[/b] . Each fighter's unique greatness only comes out with time, and if you identify with them on a personal level, you will be more likely to give them the kind of commitment they are going to need.
So, I say Stick with Jeffry.

Stage 2: Realize that if you're not winning, it probably has more to do with you watching yourself fight instead of watching the opponent fight, rather than having the wrong character under your control. I've noticed this transition in myself when I learn a fighting character in any game... first, you're learning the moves, and when you input, you watch your fighter to see if they did what you wanted. Later, if you put eyes behind your head while you're fighting, you may notice that you don't need to look at your character at all while fighting... they have earned your trust, so to speak, and you have enough confidence in your rapport to know that they are doing what you told them to. Now you are free to spend more of your attention on your opponent.
So, I say Stick with Jeffry.

Stage 3: Train. Train. Train. Go back and Train Again. OK, you've mastered some moves and you had some luck. Then you start getting your ass kicked. Time to Train. The Training mode in VF4 is so freaking awesome and helpful. Go in and cycle through the moves. Some of these moves you already know, so you might be tempted to just FF through them. Don't. Look at them. Think about your experience with them. Have they been helping you? Are you using them properly? Which ones do you just bang out when you're feeling helpless, and which ones do you use from cold logic? Which ones f&*k you EVERY TIME? Firstly, it's not about just adding moves to your repertoire, but removing them, or shifting them to a different place in your flow.
So, I say Stick with Jeffry.

Stage 4: Train some more. OK, now you're winning!! Isn't it great? Now, start Winning with Style. Go back to Training and cycle through the moves. What? Was that a move that you don't use? Get a Post-It and jot down the command. Keep going until you have about 4. Put it somewhere where you will see it all the time (I play at work, so mine go on my computer monitor). Even when you're not playing, look at it from time to time. Visualize the moves. During a fight, (cheat) by stealing a glance over at it between rounds. Repeat Stage 4 as necessary.
Stick with Jeffry.

Stage 5: Bored with Winning All the Time? If you followed Stage 1-4, across 9 months or so, you should be. Stage 5 is about picking your Next Character. Here's how it works: 1st, get someone excited about VF that has never played. Now, you can't use Jeffry when you train them, because all you're going to do is frustrate and discourage them with your Mad Skillz. So play whoever is farthest from Jeffry... someone you don't know dick about (Aoi? Lau? Lion? Somebody help me with this one.) Flounder. Give them a chance. Let them feel the victories. Help them see the love. Yu Suzuki personally does this... he plays Sarah against pros, and Lei Fei against newbies. Last I read, anyways.

Stage 6: Oops, I Mastered that character too. If you followed Stages 1-4 in the first place, you will find that mastering your second character happens kind of naturally (about 3 months). Pretty soon, you'll be kicking so much ass your friends will hate you. Repeat Stage 5.

Final thought. I Mastered every character in VF1. I mastered 5 characters in VF2 (one of them was Jeff, by the way... that man could turtle like a mofo). VF3 doesn't get discussed in my world. I have mastered 3 characters in VF4, and Jeffry didn't make the list. I still have really fond memories of him from VF1-2, and I wish I could get him back on, but the more the game evolves, the more time each of the fighters demands. And if I tried to get my Jeffry on, my Sarah, Wolf and Vanessa would suffer.

Do Jeffry, man. Do it for me. Your first love is your best love. You just gotta stick with it or get out of the game. Find out what he's got. Then show us.

Remember what I said about Sarah's punches vs Akira in my first victory against the machine in Chico? There's something you're missing. Find it. He's got it. I give you my word on this.
So, I say Stick with Jeffry.

 

yo, Love the Post man, it was great! but I just have to say that I think that is the closest to a Meg Ryan moment I think we have had on this forum, my heart was touched seriously! /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I agree stick with Jeff

 

Yeah... I think it was hidden under my shirt until recently... I saw this documentary about professional VF4 players in Japan... there was this girl, about 18, I think... she said, in part: "I feel that I can express myself through this game"... and I was like WOW. What total bravery, what total unabashed honesty... to say something on camera that 99.9% of people on this planet would dismiss as totally ridiculous geekery, but it's true and ya gotta love that. On so many levels. I want to be her.

 

Great thread. Nice contributions and an excellent read.
About the geeketry: Some of us just can't deny the NEED we have for the kind of outlet fighting games allow. Control, precision, growth, competition, pride... it's the best legal outlet for it IMHO.
I'd just like to add my own learning experience here.
When I first got VF4 I went straight to Vanessa. I didn't know about tiers and I didn't even consider frame data. I went with her because she has that explosive power and calm defense about her I love. I trained endlessly with her and didn't even touch anyone else until I hit the wall in Kumite and with my friends who were learning "easier" characters like Pai and Jacky; I just wasn't advancing anymore in skill.
I got flustered and abandoned Vane for Pai. The sheer fun of a new character was like a drug. I moved into a bit of Jacky, Sarah. I got decent with them but longed for Vane again. When I went back to Vane I realized I was incorporating some of the techniques and strategies I used with other characters. Or rather... I was transforimg and altering those strats into something that worked for Vane's game. My Vane got stronger and I was more than thrilled.
I consider Pai my second best character now and use strats from all characters I've dabbled with to improve her.

After all this I realize that picking ANY character... even a difficult one like Vane... shouldn't slow you down if you're willing to diversify a little in the future. Choose a char based on style and feel. If you have enough devotion to VF4 as a whole you'll find great personal pleasure and reward with your first choice because frankly.. you just like them for who they are (not their movelist or tier) and developed them through constant application of ALL types of gameplay. It's a fabulous thing to have a tough character to play feel like warm jello in your hands.

As a postscript I know exactly how you feel about Akira, Replicant. The jerky motions and absolute twitchiness of some of his moves feel very stiff to control. I play Kaz an awful lot in T4 as well and he just slides from one situation to another like syrup... deadly syrup. But don't discount Akira just yet. Wait until you feel comfortable with VF4 and a few of the characters. Then give him some love and sweat. I'm still working my ass off with Akira from time to time and it's been a rocky road but the SPOD is becoming second nature to me and that + is finally making gameplay once in awhile (still pisses me off tho). He has even better fluidity than Kaz IMO but you have to train yourself mentally and physically (umm.. yeah.. yer fingers) to make the connection between how the commands feel on the stick/pad and how they come out onscreen. Akira has very quick power in him and that force DOES, oddly enough, feel proper when executing the commands.

Threads like this are why I love VF4 and this community.

 

It's taken about 1k games in Evo so far, but I have finally decided to stay with Goh. He is very much a challenge to play for me, but his style is extremely smooth. My problem is that I am not usually a defensive player and Goh sorta forces you into playing a bit on the machi side. So I'm having to rework my usual mindset. I'm working on playing Goh and a friend of mine is working on Pai so we are having some pretty epic battles thus far. I have a better win record with Brad and Shun, but I don't enjoy playing them anywhere as much. That's sorta a fib, since it's hard not to have fun playing as Shun. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Evo has changed all of the characters quite a bit to me. Pai may not have the most damaging moves and floats, but I think she is the most deadly character in Evo. None of the others are slackers in the least either. Goh if you can get him rolling is a beast.