Combo Thread

Hey Chanchai, this got bought up on shoutbox too so I guess my statement may have confused some people.

When I said the move doesn't have many practical uses, I meant compared to his other launchers i.e , SDE etc. So as far as the combo list went KNEE had low priority compared to his other launches.

I didn't mean that KNEE literally had no use.

Anyway...

For sweeps in the -17 to - 18 range sure but the damage difference between that and is marginal.

If you take a look at some of the more well known Jap Akira players you could literally count the amount of times they use KNEE as low punish one one hand ...with zero fingers in fact.

I'm not basing my opinions solely on their use of the move but surely you can see the reason for them preferring , the input is a lot easier to do consistently. KNEE is good on paper but in a situation like that, missing the KNEE would cause you to lose out on quite a bit of guaranteed damage.

Aye but I find most situations like that where KNEE could be used so can . In fact because of the input for yoho I find it much easier (and higher damage) to input in these kind of situations, just delay the input slightly after your crouch dash.

There's situations like this where crouch dash won't work or can be awkward so KNEE is ideal there.

Not going to disagree here

 

Thanks for the thorough response! ^_^

The awkward situation you're describing is when you're already crouched under the high or if Akira had buffered a CD using the 323 method (instead of 33 method, which is probably best for Akira) right?

 

Sorry I was a bit vague there but yeah, there's sitautions where you'll already be crouched and inputting yoho from there can be tricky. I seem to remember certain strings can be awkard to crouch dash under, blocking the first hit of Vane and ducking the second hit is one if i recall correctly. then KNEE seemed to be much easier there.

It's been a while though so i'd have to load the game up to be more specific.

 

Also back to why I missed KNEE originally, I just didn't think that extra information was that important.

Dennis found a blog compiled by the Japanese players that had max damage combos from every launcher (pretty much...) on every character/weight class and it had some really situational (max damage for launchers on sideturned, character specific max damage at wall etc.) stuff in there too but for some reason it was missing KNEE.

I can kinda see why they didn't include them, the combo's from it are slightly different to yoho's but you can use those as a basis.

KNEE -> -> will work on mid heavywights for example, whereas the yoho combo is - -> ->

I really don't see much need for the move in FS, sure it has uses but they are limited. It feels like it got de-prioritised a little in FS among other moves like SPoD. The fact that it's 17f exe and -13 on block kept getting mentioned on the shoutbox like it's safe to just throw it out there ...pretty sure he has SDE for this

Anyway, adding KNEE combo's is no problem if people want them. Just give me a few days

 

Added a basic combo for each of the weightclass from his one frame knee.

The combos seemed to differ from yoho more than I originally thought, furthermore the KNEE combos seem to change quite vastly depending on whether it landed normal hit or counter ....recovery counter hit ones even differ slightly from normal hit.

I'm not sure what to do now as the moves main use seems to be as a punisher I might have to do further testing and list only the RCH combo's, is there ever any need to use the move in reverse nitaku?

Anyway there's some basic ones up from normal hit regardless.

 

Some things I have seen in Dojo:
+ → → →
doesn't seem to work in open stance against Vanessa or am I missing something ?

→ → →+ seems to work both stance for 82 on Goh.
It seems the last P sometimes whiff, I have yet to find if it's because of the possible leniancy for the just frame of the last hit or a height of bounce variation matter.
Need to checkif it works against other chars, it's easier than the max damage for 3pts less.

 

yeah, i have a note in my own list to check that one for vanessa, i must have had some trouble with it. are you getting a bound off the first hit of 2_6PP? if not, you could try a frame delay. i'll check it out when i get home.

 

Yep I get the bound but second whiffs, tried to 1FK didn't help.

 

ok, tested and it does work in open stance. you have to enter with the fastest timing. vanessa doesn't need to be bounced for this one, she should remain airborne after 2P.

closed stance, on the other hand, doesn't wanna work. best ending i can find for that sequence in closed is K+GP

 

43P CH on sideturned opponent is interesting. +17 if it connects, so it lets you combo from the back:



or you can just tack on one of your usual sideturned combos:



This isn't easy to get since the move is pretty slow. I'm not sure if there any good setups for it, but I have landed it in matches using OM after the opponent is staggered or when they freeze up after a counter hit. Hope someone finds it useful

 

Finally managed to pull off this combo consistently:
→ Evade Dash Cancel (to opponents back) → → → → →

Does only 75 on normal hit, not 80 as listed on the combo list.
It does 80 on minor counter (if you jump over a move).

 

Some damn nice, salty combos

 

Nice combos

Also one combo that isn't listed in the wall splat list:
wallsplat--> 46P -->214P --> DLC ->2_6P!P (Works against Aoi, need to see other LW and SLW)

It's basically an intermediate version of the wallsplat combo that deals only 3pts less than the harder Knee variant but around 6pts more than the easy:
wallsplat-->p-->214P-->DLC->2_6P!P

 

working on finding more for jeffry and wolf. here's what i have so far, these work for normal and CH in either stance unless noted:

> > > >
Wolf: you must use instead of in closed + CH
Jeff: closed only

> > KNEE > 1FK >
Wolf only

> > >

> > > > 1FK +
Wolf only

> > ~ Shichiseiho > > 1FK +
Jeff only

and for max damage for the back throw for both characters:

+ > + max delay > 1FK > +

easier input than the one listed and lands more consistently.

lastly, not sure if it was ever mentioned, but is a fairly easy way to do 1FK , especially using a stick.

 

Here's a list I put together for using the 1-frame knee (Teishitsu Dantai) as a recovery counter/minor counter. I've listed punishable moves for each character in case someone unfamiliar with them wants to take it to the dojo. Since it can be difficult to input a perfect 18 frame yoho to punish moves at -18 on block, I've included them along with -17 moves.

Eileen
use after blocking:

+
+
+
++
From Enkounyuudou

KNEE mC > > + max charge > DLC --100 (Closed stance)
KNEE mC > > + max charge > --99
KNEE mC > > > > --98
KNEE mC > > > 1FK + --93


El Blaze
use after blocking:


+

KNEE mC > > + max > -- 99
KNEE mC > > > > -- 98
KNEE mC > > > 1FK + --93
KNEE mC > > > > -- 91


Aoi
Aoi can go into Tenchi after both and + are blocked, so KNEE is not a viable punish.


Vanessa
use after blocking:
From Defensive Style +
From Defensive Style +
From Offensive Style

KNEE mC > > > > --96 (Open stance)
KNEE mC > > > 1FK --88
KNEE mC > > > > > --86
KNEE mC > > 1FK > 1FK --86


Sarah
use after blocking:
(yoho seems easy here)

(While Standing)
+
From Forward Slide

KNEE mC > > > > --96 (Open stance)
KNEE mC > > > 1FK --88
KNEE mC > > Shichiseiho > > --86
KNEE mC > > 1FK > 1FK --86


Lion
use after blocking:

+
From Torou Teihozen

KNEE mC > > > > --96 (Both stances unless you block 2KK, which then becomes open stance only. Strange)
KNEE mC > > > --96 (Closed stance)
KNEE mC > > 1FK > 1FK --88
KNEE mC > > Shichiseiho > > --86
KNEE mC > > 1FK > 1FK --86


Pai
use after blocking:





+
(From Decension)

KNEE mC > > > > --91 (Open stance)
KNEE mC > > > 1FK --88
KNEE mC > > Shichiseiho > > --86
KNEE mC > > 1FK > 1FK --86


Shun
use after blocking:
+ variants
From Choukarou +

KNEE mC > > > --96 (Closed stance)
KNEE mC > > > > --91 (Open stance)
KNEE mC > > 1FK > + --88
KNEE mC > > Shichiseiho > > --86
KNEE mC > > 1FK > --86


Lau
use after blocking:
+ (if close)
+

KNEE mC > > > --89
KNEE mC > > DLC --86
KNEE mC > > > 1FK + --85
KNEE mC > > > > --84


Lei
use after blocking:
+
+
From Hai Shiki
From Dokuritsu Shiki
From Dokuritsu Shiki /+
From Nehan Shiki

KNEE mC > > > --89
KNEE mC > > DLC --86
KNEE mC > > > 1FK + --85
KNEE mC > > > > --84


Brad
use after blocking:
+
+

KNEE mC > > > --89
KNEE mC > > DLC --86
KNEE mC > > > 1FK + --85
KNEE mC > > > 1FK > --84


Kage
use after blocking:

From Hagakureryuu In Shippuujin
From Back Turned Hagakureryuu In Shippuujin

KNEE mC > > > --89
KNEE mC > > DLC --86
KNEE mC > > > 1FK + --85
KNEE mC > > > > --84


Goh
never at -17 or worse on block, cannot KNEE punish


Jean
use after blocking:
+

KNEE mC > > Shichiseiho > > --85
KNEE mC > > > + --85
KNEE mC > > > > --83
KNEE mC > > Shichiseiho > > + --82


Jacky
use after blocking:
+
+

KNEE mC > > Shichiseiho > > --85
KNEE mC > > > + --85
KNEE mC > > --84
KNEE mC > > > > --83


Akira
use after blocking:


KNEE mC > > > > -- 85
KNEE mC > > > + -- 85
KNEE mC > > -- 84


Jeffry
use after blocking:
(at -20, so yoho is a better punish)

KNEE mC > > > > --80
KNEE mC > > 1FK > --80
KNEE mC > > > --74


Wolf
use after blocking:

(In Descension)
From Back Turned

KNEE mC > > > > --80
KNEE mC > > 1FK > --80
KNEE mC > > > --74


Taka
use after blocking:

+
+
(While Running) +

KNEE mC > > > --80 (Closed stance)
KNEE mC > > > + --78
KNEE mC > > --76

 

The combo list has 46P, P, 2K+G,P!P hitting Jeffry from open. It does not (without an inconsistent, more than 1f delay on 2K+G).

 

This is kind of redundant since Aoi can just go into Tenchi and eat your KNEE for lunch and kill you.

 

ah, yeah, good catch. I should have looked at her moves list more closely.

I suppose I should remove her from my list. Is there ever a reason aoi should not go into tenchi after one of those low kicks is blocked?

 

Not really, Aoi can Tenchi parry 99% of the casts' punishers to those lows, and the ones she can't she can attempt to Tenchi sidestep.

 

I may be wrong but the thing is Aoi may have to commit to the YY before hitchecking.
I think it's not possible to hitcheck and go for tenchi ONLY on block (but I may be wrong).

Considering the fact that always going into tenchi on hit would make her predictable and open to big damage I think that it gives her a good reason to mix things up.