Dead or Alive 5: Last Round

Yeah, I have also played BBCS I and II (especially CSII) for more over a year when CSII was the primary game for Blazblue. Tsubaki was my main and I learned playing and studying the game. I still have many associates in the Tsubaki community forums at Dustloop. I've also played Cammy in SSF4 for a good period of time before Arcade Edition came out (DOA4, BBCT, SSF4, BBCSI/II then returned for DOA5).

I watch a lot of SSF4 tournament play and study the game still to an extent. As well as reading different articles about yomi, how and why fireballs are so grave to strategy and positioning, footsies, fundamentals, etc etc. I apply a lot of what I read and test in my play in DOA (which is why my Ayane play is more unique and more dangerous than majority you'll see regularly. Other than the fact that my neutral game is really strong, something a lot of DOA players lack).

I'm at a point where all I have to do is continue breaking down some other characters (the frame data, ensuring the numbers stick in my head. Ensuring I am familiar with strings and follow ups, what jails and what doesn't, the hit advantage in stun, etc) and just doing things to help increase my reaction and muscle memory.

Tenryuga also does the samething, studies different games and articles to get a better idea about spacing and other good fundamentals.

 

Yeah, I also like studying and reading articles about other f-games as well (I play 3S, SSF4 and CvS2 sometimes with my local scene, since I don't have an offline scene for 3D and I can't stand playing only online), I believe there's a lot to learn from playing multiple f-games, cause each game is more focused on one type of skill than other (even when a game is not fundamentally heavy, if it teaches you how to use one important skill that other games doesn't, I think it's worth playing/learning). Also, I want to make sure my opinions are solid, if I think something sucks or if something is really good I want to be able to explain on a reasonable way why I think that to others, not on a biased way (there's no point on living a lie anyways).

 

My problem isn't the hold system, it's how the stun system changed starting with DOA4. In 2 or 3 you didn't have to stun someone 5 times before launching to get good damage.

And yeah you could argue 'well there's throw punishment', but that does terrible damage and it's impossible to do online. You could also argue 'well just don't play the stun game', but again you will do laughable damage, and the bigger problem is the opponent WILL play the stun game 99% of the time.

At this point you're forced to make predictions because it's impossible to react to stuff online OR offline (just watch any top player and look at all the whiffs). This is why you see so many Helena at tourneys. She's impossible to predict. You say people already played her, but I doubt they played her before DOA4 when the stun system didn't benefit her so much.

That said, I continue to play DOA for the same reasons most people do

 

Block punishment is not the only way to use throws on this game, throws as a hold punishment always guarantees Hi-Counter, and a Hi-Counter Throw does an ABSURD amount of damage, more than enough to make you think twice before spamming hold again (try going to training mode, set to Always Hi-counter, and do Alpha's 236236T... heh, low damage right?).

Also, pretty much like on VF, you can do a strike/throw mix-up, and those are effective as well. Something I like to do with Kokoro is doing 6P, and then free cancelling and doing a throw afterwards. If people is spamming hold expecting me to complete the string (6P6P) I will Hi-counter throw them. After a while people start attacking after my 6P expecting the throw, then boom, I finish the string, counter hit them, and start my stun game. Also, keep in mind that the second hit of this string is unsafe, so I'm always risking when I decide to do this tactic, (to the point that I avoid abusing it against decent players).

Also, @BLACKSTAR you said that DoA should use a strike punishment system instead, but I think this would be worse. ok, you get a jab, so what? the next hits will be holdable, and you probably didn't even get a critical stun out of it. Because of that, even if a move is -10 I still use throws (and I love it, cause that means I can punish with Marie's 4T when I'm using her).

 

Guard Breaks are negative on Block. This is so dumb, you break your opponents Guard, and this puts you at disatvantage.

The DoA-Engine is pretty much broken beyond repair, a major overhaul is required.
Look at the laughable Ground game, any benefits from a knockdown ? Nope, a knockdown puts the grounded opponent at advantage.

Keep selling your Bikinis, Team Ninja, the girls are hot, the fighting engine not.

 

You don't have to hit someone 5 times before launching, lol. There are several characters that benefit from using the critical stun threshold, while some benefit from stun > launch.

Ayane benefits from stun > launch damage more than any other character. In fact, she has the highest damage output in stun > launch. She can deal 100-103 damage across the board in a common stun > launch set up, which barely reaches Critical level 2. She is dishing out 70-90+ on average through stun > launch. While also putting herself in a good position since her juggles will knock you away from her, benefiting her keepout game and wall/corner carry is very strong.

Ein is also another character that benefits from stun > launch. So does Hayate, Hitomi, genfu, and a few others. Also, do not use online play as an example for anything, because online play skews the game from what you can do. Throw punishment is not laughable damage, any damage you get through punishment counts. No character in this game is impossible to read/defend against, this is only true if you don't know the character you're fighting (my sets with CrazySteady in grand finals at SCR is not a great example because I didn't really study Jacky enough beforehand, thus my bad reads).

DOA5 and DOA5U has improved on the critical stun threshold system by making stuns more distinct than another. Some stuns are light enough on hit advantage, allowing you to stagger escape and block a followup strike.

Some stuns are moderate on hit advantage and allow the attacker to be more offensive without worrying about the defender escaping the offense so easily. The amount of hit advantage here will sometimes force a must hold situation, depending on strikes that deal a moderate amount of hit advantage (usually +23 to 30+ hit advantage). A good example would be Ayane's 6P3 on counter hit or critical stun. This will force you to guess because you cannot stagger escape and block if she decides to follow up at 6P3P or neutral PP. 6P3P will launch you.

Some stuns are very heavy on hit advantage, and these further breakdown into their own stun situations. The heavier stuns will either always force a must hold situation, or guarantee a follow up strike, preferably a launch. A few examples of these stuns are light and heavy sit down stuns, crumple gut stuns, and limbo stuns.

Ayane's BT 4H+K puts you in a gut stun on neutral hit, counter and hi counter hit. If you are caught in a gut stun, your only options are to guess with a hold, or just fall down to the ground, you cannot stagger escape this. Stuns such as these greatly benefit the attacker, increasing their opportunity to do solid damage.

Please read Tenryuga's post about the Critical stun threshold to understand how it works. He's gone pretty in-depth and even described how certain stuns are distinct to another; http://virtuafighter.com/threads/dead-or-alive-5-ultimate-thread.18111/page-31#post-378845

 

Please do not speak immaturely about a game that you don't know nothing about. If you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to, but to speak non sense isn't going to help your cause. Is there some guard breaks that leave you at negative? Yes. Most guard breaks in doa do not leave you at negative. Most of the ones that do are good for whiff punishing. You should not be using them while your opponent is blocking, your character would obviously have better options. Is guard breaks being negative stupid? Yes. Is it relevant? No. It doesn't effect the core of the game.

Why is DOA system broken? Everything you said just shows the lack of knowledge for the game. The ground game is actually really good in DOA5U. It just require actual skill, and thinking unlike DOA4 and DOA5. It actually take time to look for the tech. I find plenty of it all the time for my characters as well does the Japanese players. Again, if you don't know the game, or have not put enough time/effort into the game besides play online, don't come spilling non sense. Thank you. =)

A lot of people don't like VF because they feel the game is about 6P, 2P all the time (especially 2P). Does that make it true? No. There is a lot to DOA just like there is a lot to VF once players put in the time to explore the system.

 

I always felt the minus gbs were to hide the huge recovery animations on the attacks.

For example Bass' 66p is a rather slow attack that is meant to hit like a truck and guarantee an opening to his pressure game if it hits since it scores him a deep knockdown guaranteeing a pickup ground throw and him +13. The anim for the move has a lot of recovery frames though. In previous DOAs this move was greater than -18 and awarded him nothing on hit. So in this game it's considered a starting tool, and to award the opponent for using it they made it safe on guard. The guard break is there to denote that the move is strong and the animation is slow.
If the gb animation wasn't there then the opponent would be left feeling like it's +14 on guard as the two wait for the recovery to get to -4. An example of this feeling is Akira's 2h+kp which is +0. However test guarding it and it feels like +9 because you have to wait for his recovery frames to end before the disadvantage is set.

 

Coming from a VF prospective, DOA stun/hold game is the most glaring obstacle to overcome in order to feel comfortable with the game system.

DOA people won't budge on the idea that the stun/hold game is simply fundamental to the DOA experience: change that, and you may as well be playing another game, they say.

It's a bit of a conondrum, as the stun/hold game is what for many, myself included, holds back DOA from being taken seriously as a competitive fighting game,

Yet, change it and DOA could lose it's uniqueness.

Just reading comments on this thread, it obvious that many experienced VF players find it difficult if not impossible to adapt. Should DOA change to make it easier for newcomers to understand the game? Many experienced DOA players, even in this thread, go to great length to explain how to play the stun/hold game. Yet, the fundamental thing remain: there are numerous times in a DOA match where you are put in stun situation and your only way out is to gamble with a hold.

These type of situations are way too common - this is to say, it's like playing VF with your back constantly against the wall, you are never too far away from taking half bar combos.

Maybe making these stun situation less common could be a compromise? Keep them, but for a smaller percent of the moves?

Of course DOA people will reply "no change is needed, you just have to get used to it". This is the problem of every fighting community, we are too bound to our game to accept its flaws (I am biased for VF in the same way, as for example I simply don't want to acknowledge that VF needs a story mode to appeal to newcomers. I want the game to stay pure as it is, but I know this is counterproductive in terms of getting newcomers on board).

 

I wouldn't mind trying out the threshold hold system similar to how it was in DOA++, DOA2, and DOA3.

In those three games, the initial stunning hit counted towards the threshold.

In DOA4, DOAD, and DOA5/U the initial stunning hit starts the threshold.

So you are in critical stun for a shorter time. I just question how it would feel to be near constantly in CB! meta-game after every threshold starter.

 

So Team NINJA recently started the voting process on the recently fan-submitted costume contest.

I know VF & DOA players alike would love to see this costume in VF/DOA 5. It's currently in the top 15 of 300 submitted costumes.

 

lmao.

 

I voted for a few costumes, i THINK (not completely sure) ur supposed to vote for 3 costumes, i'm not sure if it's 3 costumes (1 for each character) TOTAL or 3 for each part? Either way, i voted for the Sarah biker costume, would love to see Sarah wear a leather jacket, something that looks like it would go well with her personality and choice of clothing, also look good on her when teamed up with her brother wearing his default (race car) outfit.

I also voted for an outfit for Tina (the one that is street/Urban clothing)
And I voted for an outfit for Hitomi.

 

From what I understand, it's 9 votes in total: 3 for each part and you cannot vote for the same character more than once.

 

not a single jacky costume in that contest...

 

There are 2.

 

^what puno said.

 

Aside from the already posted BananAkira, here are the other VF character entries:

Akira-




Jacky-



Pai-







Sarah-

 

The female stuff is awesome especially this last Sarah one and the wannabe Samus one. I didn't like any of those Akira costumes. I especially didn't like the Jacky ones. I'm not a fan of a man not looking like a man. That red shirt over the head would make Jacky look mad suspect lol. His voice is already sweet enough let's at least keep his clothes manly.