DIY frames analysis

Ha, seems like you didn't understand what I wanted to say. You made a typo in your low throw total animation frame analys.

"Total animation length.

Aoi vs Kage
Record Kage doing 3K on block > 9K+G (30 frames)
With Aoi fter blocking the side kick (+6) do a low throw and then guard.
If done correctly you will be unable to guard Kage's attack.

Record Kage doing K > 9K+G (30 frames
With Aoi after blocking the side kick (+6) do a low throw and then guard.
If done correctly you will be able to guard Kage's attack.
So the total animation frames of a low throw is = 6 + 30 = 36 frames."

----------> Should be "high kick" and (-7) which explains better why you are able to block the 9K+G at th 37th frame and conclude that it's 36 frames.

 

There's one with Aoi, pretty easy:

With Aoi dummy, do a sweep, then OM > low throw.

Then eat the sweep on CH ( just evade ), and tech.

 

lol I just saw it a few seconds ago and corrected just before your last post XD

with that example we are able to deduce that in both cases (5 active frames or 10 active frames) the low throw will not connect on a not fully crouching opponent because Aoi will be fully crouching only at the 11th frame.
When Aoi does 2_G she will transition from a fully standing position to partially crouching (for blows but not throws) to fully crouching.
I did other test with different frames advantage at the beginning and they are all coherent with my results.

 

Find some set-up with Aoi's Low Throw was a personal project for me. But i've had some troubles during my work :

• The starter (if the NH or MC change or not the timing)
  
• The combo finisher
• The weight class
• Tools to reduce the range / distance (by tools i mean OM, CD fuzzy, ECD...)

I give you some advices :

First of all, choose a weight class (super light, light, mid, heavy and/ or taka). Why? Because timing isn't the same. Every class own their timing.
Secondly choose the heavier or the ligther among the class. It will be the base of your search.
thirdly choose a area without fence (shun or taka area )
fourthly start with a simple knock down like Aoi's
fifthly index your combo and their finisher

Some thought to start your work. That only suggestion no more no less. Your searches will be easier with goh or wolf i think.

test against goh :
A standard knock down
and

Aginst a TR (both) just

Combo knock down

( a long delay)
You need to buff the forward dash and the low throw


Don't buff the forward dash and wait until the end of it to throw

I hope that's can help you mate

 

thanks for the help but I needed a knockdown with a specific frames of advantage.

EDIT changed the test with a better one

Wof vs El Blaze

ONLY this time record the whole thing hitting the opponent.

Record El Blaze doing P > 6K+G > 2P+K > 6PK > 2/8 > 33P+G low throw (cancelling as fast as possible the failed evade into the low throw should take 1 frame).
With Wolf block the first P and the mash K+G eating the combo tech rolling (both sides) at the end.
If done correctly the low throw will connect almost as meaty as possible on its 10th active frame.
This type of knockdown leads to 21 frames of advantage before the lower part of the hurtbox will start to reappear.
Cancelling a failed evade into a crouch dash into a low throw takes (10 + 1 =) 11 frames.
This way the last active frame of the low throw will be after 21 frames as passed, exactly the amount of frames when Wolf's hurtbox will start to reappear.

Because there are 3 frames of limited options after a tech roll Wolf cannot attack before the 10th active frame of the El Blaze's low thorw has passed making it a situation for a guaranteed low throw.

Play it again but this time as soon as you thech rolled mash PPP: the low throw will not connect as Wolf will hit El Blaze in recovery counter hit.

From this we can get that it's impossible to have a guaranteed meaty low throw.
This could be explained by the fact that the system will store your attack attempt even if it will start after the 10th active frame of the low throw and consider it as done during the 10 active frames of the low throw.

 

Back dash attack cancel frame analysis

EDIT
due to a stupid error on my side (I recorded the old example while hitting the opponent) I got all the buffering screwed.
Here's the corrected version

Kage vs Kage

Record (make everything whiff by doing a few back dashes at the beginning, don't do a stupid thing like me XD) Kage doing 6P > 44 > 6P (cancel the back dash as soon as possible)
Play it and with Kage block the elbow (+4) and then do a perfectly buffered 66P+K (20 frames).
If done correctly you will get hit on CH by the dummy's mid elbow.

Now play it again but this time after having blocked the elbow do 4K (19 frames).
If done correctly this time you will hit the dummy on CH.

To have the proof that the back dash has been inputted now block the elbow and then do 3K (16 frames).
If done correctly this time you will hit the dummy on CH (getting even a back dash stagger).

4K does more damage than 6P so no need to test out priority.

From this we can get that you can cancel a back dash with an attack after (+ 4 + X + 14 = 19 => X =) 1 frame.

 

There was this frame viewer: ( but no data about movement) posted here
Maybe it can be of some help ?

 

that's something really cool!

thanks for the heads up but it's only about the kown data in the frames list while here I'm trying to find what it's not there

 

Yes thank you for that !

But about these 4 frames (cancel backdash with attack) can you use that data in an easy way to find out what whiff punisher you can use ( some calculus with your disadvantage)?
( : In training I used to try some things after back dash for exemple 6P blocked then backdash and goh's 3P+K in opponent's recovery of his 6P retaliation)

 

"Back dash attack cancel frame analysis

Kage vs Kage

Record (make everything whiff by doing a few back dashes at the beginning) Kage doing P > 44 > 6P (cancel the back dash as soon as possible)
Play it and with Kage block the high punch (-2) and then do P+K (17 frames).
If done correctly you will get hit on CH by the dummy's mid elbow.

Now play it again but this time after having blocked the high punch ( not elbow ) do 3K (16 frames side kick).
If done correctly this time you will hit the dummy on CH."

I get a backdash stagger too, is it right ?

 

yes it's right, I didn't write that because it seemd an unecessary information for the purpose of a frame analysis but maybe it's better to add it.

It's the same example I used in the Storing Mechanics thread where that stagger is the start of that discussion

Edited the post to add the back dash stagger info

 

I edited the post about the back dash cancel because I made a stupid error recording everything while hitting the opponent screwing up all the buffering

The fun part is that a few hours before I was having fun of Kingo for the same problem in one of his test.
I was like "C'mon scrub I always write in my tests to be sure to make everything whiff while recording!"



Yeah, I know...I'm a super scrub

 

change the test for the meaty low throw to a better one (tight to the frame!)

 

First of all after Goh's 6P you will not able to make whiff any mid elbow.
Goh's 6P has no pushback at all.

Second, about your frame question to setup your whiff punisher.
Whiff punishing after a back dash it's a combination of several factors:
- amount of your move's pushback
- space covered by your back dash (it varies from charachter to charachter both on total distance covered both in initial acceleration)
- your whiff punisher startup
- the animation of your whiff punisher

This a case by case study where knowing how much frames does it takes to cancel as fast as possible a back dash into an attack doesn't help at all.

 

ok thanks for the reply !
But about the 6P I can make it whiff in dojo after my 6P blocked with a backdash and 3P+K hits on recovery ( or is it a bug of the dojo ?)

 

Yeah, backdash is cancellable after one frame. Easiest way to confirm is to find a move that gives +1 and set the cpu on guard and 2p. Normally your 2p will win, but if you backdash into 2p you get a simultaneous hit.

 

Ok so after further testing trying to make a retaliation 6P whiff with a backdash after 6P blocked is a little bit more complicated than I thought:

1 : you can't be too close to your opponent
2 : it's character specific
3 : it seems to be stance dependant too

I didn't test against all the cast but for exemple it works against sarah in both stances (my first test), on kage in close stance, on lau in open stance (not sure of that one), on akira in close ( but the dummy is doing 66P so I'm not sure about 6P)it doesn't work against jacky, taka, pai...

 

Akira has no 6P
He has 3P but it has less range than 66P and slower.

 

Yes I forgot the input ^^"

 

the problem with this demonstration is that there's no evidence you inputted a backdash or just wait a single frame.
And if you input the backdash out of the buffer (earlier) you will hit the dummy on CH while you think you have back dashed.

Unicorn found another way to demntrate it with a double test posted here and here (it's split in two separte post)