Do you still believe in VF5R for consoles?

Yes, if we can get Austin 3:16 to go to sega and negotiate.

(OMFG did he just stun the CEO of SEGA!!!)-J.R

 

@ masterpo

I totally understand your points and I already have put them consideration. But what I said earlier is what makes sense to me.
SF brought back the hype for the fighting scene and releasing VF right now won't help at all since most of people are crazy about SF4. Right now (MAYBE) most of the casual gamers who bought SF4 for the hype of it are seeing the fun side of fighting games. And maybe after they get tired of it (I doubt it will be any time soon) they want to try another fighting.
What SEGA needs (as some of the guys here suggested) is some great marketing for VF. They should hype it the way (if not better) SF was hyped. Maybe then will see a lot of gamers buying the game.

Anyways, thanx masterpo for welcoming back. I read a lot of the posts here its just for some reason I stopped posting.

 

But then they'll just buy Tekken instead, which is the closest thing to SF in terms of name recognition.

I think the only FG series casuals even acknowledge are SF, Tekken, and SC.

 

A good point, releasing next VF version now would be bad for business. But they could release it for next christmas maybe.

 

Most casuals know VF too, but VF has that boring game reputation in those communities. Casuals find VF too technical and boring to play & watch.

 

Well alot of people with general knowledge in fighting games just know SF, SSB, or MK! the only way you would get people into a particular fighting game, to thier eyes it has to be very intiuitive yet deap and fun.

Aside from that, all I say is it would be a sin not to have VFR online for PS3!!!

 

I dunno, the more I talk to Soul Calibur and Tekken players, the clearer the picture is starting to become.

VF players that play SC, Tekken,SF etc., kind-a-see VF as either a logical progression or at least in that same family of games. I'm talking to a lot of players of other fighters that
see VF more like Fight Night /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif They don't even see it as the same kind-a-fighter as a Soul Calibur or SF.

So I am really starting to wonder whether any amount of marketing or advertising Sega could do would change people's minds.

The Fight night series is popular from what I understand, But the Fight Night audience is not the SF or Tekken audience is it?

Maybe VF fits more with UFC 2009, and Fight Night series outside of Japan. Sure we know the Japanese understand the relationships between Tekken, Soul Calibur and VF but maybe outside of Japan
no-do-understandie /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Please tell me of anyone you know who thinks this so I can give them a good smack upside the head. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Seriously, anyone who even knows the basics of fighting games should know the difference between a frame based fighter like VF and a game like Fight Night.

You know what really hurts VF's public perception more than anything else (aside from Sega's lackluster marketing)? It's the fact VF has a reputation for being a "complex" game that takes "commitment" and "dedication" to be good at. Seeing these three words in a sentence that describes any game is enough to send most casual gamers running for the hills.

What's frustrating is that people who see VF in this light overlook one of the most important aspects of VF's design. VF is fun no matter what skill level you are at, as long as you play with your piers. I think if you could just get the average gamer to pay more attention to gameplay mechanics than flash and eye candy, they would probably have more fun playing VF with their friends than any other fighting game.

 

well said...

 

Well said, my friends love fighting games to bits, though one only likes Tekken and SC, after years of bashing VF without sitting down to play it, I introduced him to it and after playing through arcade and beating Akira he fell to his knees cheering.

He was able to gain a greater sense of accomplishment from VF than any previous fighting game he'd played, he went and bought it the following week.

VF5 got some pretty good in store advertising when the PS3 launched, if it had a better dojo and an online mode straight away I would think it would not have been returned so much.

In terms of console fighters, I think VF5 still offers the best in competition and online functionality, If VF5R comes out with greater support from SEGA i'm sure it will raise the bar again for console fighters.

 

Does it matter to SEGA that the game was re-sold used? They already got their $60 for it right?

The only angle I see that could hurt them is if people just bought the used copy and ignored the new one...

 

I agree with you. But here's what's happening under the surface.



"VF is fun no matter what skill level you are at, as long as you play with your peers"


First in most cases fun="reasonable chance to win"[/size] so if we translate your statement:

You can win at VF no matter what skill level you are as long as you play with people who know about as much VF as you know.

That statement works but there is a glitch in it if you're talking about casual players[/size]. Here's why; avanced players can have fun playing intermediate players, newbies and other advanced players Intermediate players can have fun playing newbies and other intermediate players. Newbies(noobs) (causual VFers) can only really have fun playing other casual VFers.

The problem is that VF does not allow you to play casual 4 very long. Depending on which character you pick up, you have to start looking at movelists in order get some wins in. Once you learn some of the basics of VF the distance between U and a total noob grows very quick. So unless U and your peers are all
spending about the same time on movelists and the basics, then U will start dominating the matches and the game will cease to be as fun for your peers. (At that point they go back to whatever fighter they were playing) The problem is U know to much 4 the game to be fun 4 your noob friends, but you don't know enough for it to be fun 4 U when you play against intermediate players.


So the real problem its kind of tricky but... [/size]

In order to have fun playing VF You have to at least get to intermediate skill levels in VF. Most casual fight game players can't get to intermediate skill levels in VF because they don't have fun playing VF. They don't have fun because they can't consistently win, they can't consistently win because their peers have either quit playing or their peers have gotten better at VF and are now intermediate level or higher. Which means they don't have fun playing what used to be their peers. So consequently because the causal fight gamer cannot consistently win playing VF, VF Sux, or is boring, or doesn't have good graphics like Tekken, or its not Fun /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>
Moral of the story:</span> There's no such thing as casual VFers. You're either in or you're out. Consequently true Newbies to VF usually encounter either intermediate players or advanced players, and unless the Newbie is really destined to become a VFer, he or she will put the game down after being pwned a few times. Conclusion:[/size] VFers are born not made. We eventually find our way to Virtua Fighter with or without Sega's advertising. And once we go VF we put all of the other fighters in the casual column. That's just the way it is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Masterpo, I have to agree with 90%[/size] of your post. Very on-point for dissecting the progression of a good/bad VF player.

However, I'd have to say that VF players are made. To say that they are born implies that VF doesn't require dedication and practice. It just takes natural-born talent. <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Nothing could be farther from the truth.[/size]</span>

When I started learning VF, I took my losses like a man, and in great quantities. I was taught by <u>JunoSynth</u> and <u>TXLion</u> and it took me a solid YEAR of playing those guys before I got my first honest win. Another year after that, I could hang with them in real matches. But we're talking about thousands of losses. And thats what truly separates a pro VFer from everyone else. The unrelenting beatdown that you take while learning the game.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>But here's where sega went right:</span> VF4Evo's training mode.[/size] Simply amazing tutorials that detail every single possible defensive and offensive technique in the game. It did not hide any system function from those who wanted to learn. On top of that, it gave you trials where you would have to prove to the game that you can, indeed, fuzzy guard, ETEG, evade, ect. So those who were willing to put in the time could get better all on their own, without the benefit of playing against another person.

But in VF5, sega must have thought that the online portion would be a good substitute for good training. <u>Its not.</u> As good VF players, we don't have time to explain to every single n00b all the intricate aspects of VF. Besides, even if you tell them how it all works, they won't remember it all, and they certainly won't be able to put it in practice for at least a few months.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>So,</span> <span style='font-size: 11pt'>what could Sega [/size]do to make VF5 a smash-hit in other countries?</span>
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Release VF5:R![/size]</span> But don't just do a console port! Bring back the Evo style training mode and tutorials! Bring back online! Give all the players all the tools they would need to become better VF players. That way, if you're picking up the game with some of your friends, and they start beating you, you can simply go into the training mode on your own and learn a few things. Next week, you'll be the top-dog, and then you'll be telling your buddies to get some training!

Simply put: the more help Sega gives to people who want to learn VF, the more life-long VF players Sega can count on to buy the next game.

 

Well said White_Worm, well said. And I hope they hear your pleas

 

White_worm,

I'm with U on this, but Ur proving my point. Ur an example of a Fighting gamer that was destined or born to play VF. If that were not the case when your buddies gave you the first 20 or 30 spankings you would have put the game down /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif The fact that you stuck with it for year b4 getting the 1rst real win, proves that you had the right stuff B4 Juno and TXLion taught you anything.

I'm not saying that players are born with VF skill, I'm saying it takes a certain kind-a-person to want to play , have fun, and excel at VF, and that you're born that way with that personality
type.

I could take your exact story replace U with some of the casual fighters that I know that play Tekken/SC, DOA, Mk etc, and after the first few dozen losses at the hands JunoSynth and TXLion these cats would've put VF down and said that its boring, it sux, the animation moves to slow etc /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

You really are making my point for me. People play games that are fun! Fun for most people means winning or at least the reasonable chance to win[/size]. You just wrote in you post that you took great guantities of losses. For most people losing is not fun(I'm an exception to that, I actually enjoy a good a@# whoppin). Any game where when you start out U have to lose often is not fun for most people. Which means, Ur not most people! Which means Ur born not made or else U would've walked away right off the bat.

I'm with u on wishing Sega would release 5R with new and improved training mode. I thought the Quest orders in EVO were very helpful. I'm all about that. <span style='font-size: 17pt'>BUT!</span> alot cats are playing other fighters because they can have "fun"[/size] without having to use a training mode! Its exactly the fact that a training mode is necessary that turns a segment of players off from VF. We see a deep training mode as a good thing, but that's because we're born not made /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

I'm not guessing with what I'm saying I'm going off observations that I've made for the last 8 years and after talking to and watching hundreds of newbies-to-intermediates play Tekken, DOA, and SC, and talking with them and getting their opinions and feedback about VF.

Our group regularly sponsors fighting tournaments in our little city not far from Cleveland Ohio. Often we'll use Tekken, or Soul Calibur as pre tournament warm ups, or as the first leg in our competitions, and we have VF as the main event. I can't tell you how many times cats were mad at having to play VF as the main event. We always take the opportunity to get feedback as to why
VF was a problem.

I can't count how many times, we got: "VF moves too slow", or "its Whack", or "its Stale", or its "too complicated", or "nobody plays that shit", etc. It had nothing to do with Sega's advertising, or how good training mode was. Here's the observation that was true in most of these cases: All the cats that would complain, almost always had poor to mediocre Tekken/SC/DOA skills. Not that they would be mashers but that they were able to do a couple of successful moves or combos and were able to have fun(translation: win[/size]) using those few moves or combos.

I know there are high level players in Tekken/SC/DOA but you can
still consistently win in those franchises and not be high level.
That's just not the case with VF. The work in VF pays off, but so
many cats play Tekken/SC/DOA precisely because they don't have to work, they could care less about a full featured training mode, because they would never use it anyway. They're perfectly content spamming, and mashing, and using luck to see who can get to the Juggle first. TBH most of these cats don't even use the training mode in Tekken or SC (because its not necessary to win)

When I said born, I wasn't referring to natural-born talent I was referring to personality type. I would be willing to bet a year's salary that the people who enjoy and excel at VF have similar personality types. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif And the people who find VF too complicated, too slow, boring, or whatever fit in a different personality type. I'm not saying there's no overlap. For instance I play Tekken/SC and DOA too, but I noticed the difference between my core personality type and cats whose main
game is Tekken or SC. There is a difference. All of the peeps I know that are really down with VF all fit a certain mold (Every single one them). They're from different countries, races, age groups but they all have a certain element of personality in common. And its something they were born with, nothing that
Sega's advertising plan, or extra training mode features could
add.

There are hundreds of thousands of peeps that play VF, that's actually enough to have plenty of tournaments and a nice size VFDC community. and Sega is not losing money selling VF. It might not be as big a seller as SFIV or Tekken, but it sells.

I want 5R too, with Quest orders and Training mode as well. But the people who are destined to play VF will end up playing it with or without proper advertising, marketing, or training mode.
And that number of people is always going to be less than the number of people that would play Tekken or SC.

VF is almost perfect if they add better, smarter AI, a complete training mode, (online for PS3) Sega could stop there. At some point the game is as good as its gonna get (like Chess) it is what it is. VF is almost there. No amount of advertising or
marketing will make it the most popular fighting game, simply because B4 you can truly have fun playing the game U have to work, and in the West at least people prefer to play without having to work. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Masterpo has always sounded wise lol! The avatar especially helps potray that. Whiteworm also makes sense. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

I'll agree with that. Especially the part about the personalities. We may have been arguing semantics before. I still don't think that VFers are "born", but I think they're made out of the remains of other, lesser fighting gamers.

For instance, my background is (was) Tekken. The first fighting game I played at a competitive level was Tekken Tag. This happened because 2 pro tekken players introduced me to the concept of juggles and spacing. So I went online to tekkenzaibatsu.com and tried to get a better understanding of how the game worked. I learned it on my own, for the most part.

But then the disaster called Tekken 4 came out, and that pretty much ended my tekken career. But even before T4, I was starting to lose love for the game. Mostly because of the community, and a lot of the mechanics of the game. In Tekken, theres much less a need for tricks and mixups as some other fighters. I started getting bored because I could really just spam the same thing over and over and do resonably well against most people. Theres just no reward to that, know what I mean?

But then I started playing DOA, and I loved it. Reversals felt like the tricks that I had longed for in Tekken. Turned out I was wrong, and DOA is arguably more broken than Tekken, but thats mostly because of character class. We'll leave that one alone.

Then my buddy showed me VF4. I was interested at first, simply because I've always liked fighters. Then he showed me something that would change my life...forever:

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>...YOU CAN PLAY DRESS-UP!!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif </span>

OMGF! I was hooked! So I bought it, and started looking up how to earn all the cool costume items. As it turns out, you have to be very good at the game to get all of it, as the cpu is NOT your bitch. Usually the opposite. So I had to learn to be better at the game so that I could dress up my character prettier than my friend.

What the fuck does that say about me as a player? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Don't answer that, please. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

My point is, I found motivation to learn VF, and because of the superior AI and training modes offered in VF4 and Evo, I was able to become the player I am today. I can't sit down and learn Street Fighter 4 (bleh) right now on my own because the game is not as forthcoming with all its secrets as VF has been in the past.

Again, my point is that if Sega wants more life-long VF players, they need to give them the tools to reach their goals.

 

I think the reason for everyone getting into VF is different dependent on the player. I've seen some posts where some are saying the reason VF isn't as popular is because it lacked the 1337 training mode Evo had. Then some are saying the characters are boring and lack personality despite their near perfect fighting style renditions. All of you have great points even the guy who said "VF is boring as shit" in the other thread.

I truly believe what Sega is going to have to do with VF5R is pull a Evo and launch it on consoles with a "Greatest Hit" price tag. Not only that but provide a great training mode like the one in Evolution but also a more in depth Quest mode with the trials that do help you improve your game.

For me I can remember my first experience on a home version of VF. I was so dissapointed there was no character endings and I was left wondering who these characters were and why I should care for them. Then I went into Quest mode and started playing around and found the ability to customize characters and started playing more to try to get better outfits. In the end I wound up going through the training mode and was in awe at the stuff they wanted me to remember. I was more concerned with what moves looked cool and tried learning those rather than sidestepping, fuzzy guarding etc.

That being said all the stuff that I had to learn kept the game fresh for me and I just loved the rewards I got for sticking with it.

 

do you think they might add any console specific characters? if the requests are large enough I really hope they do. me personally, I have about 3 different types of characters I'd like to see.

1) I'd want to see Siba finally get a release in the VF series and use Pencak Silat.

2) I'd like to see a boxer added in the mix. Origin doesn't matter.

3) Lastly, a capoerra user. origin doesn't matter either.

what do you guys think? would it be nice if they added new characters or the additions in Revolution are good enough? and also, I'd like to send a requests to sega with those additions as well, but my japanese...is extremely poor. Anybody know the best way I can translate the requests I have along with the ones already listed at the home page of this site?

 

No more characters, pleaaaaassseee!