DoA4... OMG

Re: DOA

At least the new lobby system looks good. As much as I hate the fighting engine/characters, the xboxlive stuff is great. I might try this game just for that reason.

The multi-tiered stages are great even though the idea isn't original. They took that concept and improved it quite a bit.

 

Re: DOA

a local friend of mine had DOAU, tried it on XBox Live and had a lot of fun on it because the lag wasn't huge, done very well I thought, I tried GGXX #R on live and it was like there was a router reset every 12 seconds it was so bad. I'm not saying it's necessarily my cup of tea (haven't played enough to say yay or nay necessarily) but Itigaki has done some things right and I agree whole heartidly with his opinions on Tekken and hey, when you have the creator of his own game willing to play his own game, I think that speaks bounds for it.

 

Re: DOA

"I'm sure anyone that's played Dead or Alive Ultimate understands that it's geared more to the hardcore side than DOA3 was."

Riiiight.

 

Re: DOA

Itagaki Interview


It's a somewhat frankful n amusing interview.
Look forward to the next one.


(oops, I wasn't aware nobody linked the interview b4 me..mucho apologises)

 

Re: DOA

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:

I just don't understand people sometimes.

DissMaster clearly stated that the following was merely his limited experience and frustration. He even calmly explains his frustrations with the game. Instead of taking the opportunity to correct any misunderstanding, or clarify any confusion, or totally ignore him, what were the two replies?

One telling him to stfu, and the other a mocking laugh. That's pretty apalling. And, Painty_J, you're one to talk about shitting up threads.

My total experience with DoA was summed up accurately when DissMaster said:

[ QUOTE ]
After a few games, we were reminded why we stopped playing the game. It's lack of depth was a fatal flaw.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't think his rant was stupid, I can relate in some way. If you don't have any exposure to a games scene then off course you won't think too highly of a game, especially a game like DoA. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It's like my situation. I can't get most of my friends to play VF because they're limited experience with it. They don't want to read long faqs on how to play and when I beat them at the game that brush it off and say "it's just because you like those kind of games". I mean I suck at VF, but I love it to death because I'm opposite to Dissmaster, VF was my first fighting game. I played VF1 at the arcades and I loved it. My facination with DoA didn't come along until I bought an Xbox.

However at no time did I know of VF's depth. I simply liked it because to me at the time it was Street Fighter with no fireballs, and me being a complete scrub that got owned by the fireball blazing cpu that was freaking tight. DoA3 on the Xbox was the first game I really got "deep" into. It was reading Tom Brady's posts and finding out about TiT6 that made me think twice about fighters. His examples of Hayate's frame traps in DoA3 were my first exposures to frame data PERIOD. Finding out about oki play was even more astounding to me at that time.

So with help from doacentral I was able to elevate myself from scrub status and for once learned how to play a game the way it was meant to be played. It's kind of that feeling you have with the first game you ever got hardcore with. You think back and remember how much fun it was to play the game at that level and it's hard for you to see the flaws of the game because of that nostalgic bias.

VF has a special place in my heart, I'll probably never be anything in that game but I'll continue to support Sega AM2 because I respect them and enjoy playing their titles. But DoA to me is a game that I just can't stop playing and can't stop wanting to be better at. DoA3.0 imo (despite what others on DoAcentral say) remains one of my favorite fighting games of all time. Sure why play the weaker version of DoA3? Because it was my first serious fighting game, and I'll never forget playing at that level.

That's my view point of DoA so obviously I'm kind of hurt when I see almost every fighitng board dismiss the game as "trash". Maybe it's just my bias but when people just go around and put a bad name on a game for reasons of just being with the crowd it really hurts that game and doesn't give it a fair evaluation to some people. An example:

On shoryuken.com people bash SC2 almost as bad as DoA. Yet SC2 had such an insanely large competition base and such huge strategy discussion that a it simply amazed me. More so was the fact the majority of SRK truely believes these "crowd" opinions. Sure I will admit to saying "Step and 2G is ghey" but I'll never talk smack about the game's strategy and the community that advidly supports it. It's these kind of attitudes that are throwing fighting games out of the mainstream. People for some reason seem to have the need to force their opinions of everyother fighter as fact. An example from our community would be the WCMaxi conspiricy. WCMaxi (of SC2/Tekken community) use to go around and boost about his unbeatable DoA2 strategy envolving the crouch dash into either throw or mid punch. He claimed it was unbeatable because he used it on Team Ninja at JAMMA and easily defeated them. Anyone educated can easily point out that a video games development team is not the perfect test subjects for high level play, yet everyone pretty much in the Tekken and Soul Calibur community believed his words because he was a higher up in tournaments and from there on flamed DoA any chance they got. /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Complaining about the problems of a game I have no problem, but most gamers now a days never do that. They go around and read up on some opinions and then adopt those opinions as fact and rampage across forums doing what they will. It's frustrating to me and many other gamers of the said target game being bashed. Can you believe that SSBM hasn't made it to EVO since it came out? It's insane considering SSBM has the largest tournament scene out of any fighter here in North America... EVO could make a truck load off of SSBM! Yet I believe the reason why is because SRK members and players are so prejudiced against the game. And their prejudice is completely unfonded! All opinions and no facts are used to bash SSBM, it's almost rediculess. But that's how todays fighting game communities work. As a community, DoA has always been low on numbers similar to VF (read VTYME2). That's why for years we have been trying to convince other communities to try our game and give it a fair chance.... and for years it's just not worked. I can sort of relate it to North American VF and their attempts of getting players to try their game, except the supposed arguement is in reverse. DoA is too "shallow" and VF is too "deep". /versus/images/graemlins/deadpan.gif

If we do not do something about this elitism that is going around all the fighting game communities then fighting games will only plunge further and further into a niche market. But then again what do I know, I'm just some laughable "hardcore DoA player" who is a scrub in VF.

Maybe it'll take another Street Fighter or something to turn the tables around for fighting games but from what I can see we are killing ourselves more than pop. culture and mainstream gaming. I think I'm just rambling on too much and being idiotic, but I this is really what I believe and maybe one day people will stop being so closed minded and enjoy the game for what it is. Probably why I like this forum alot, people are pretty open here and it's really comfortable posting knowing that some one is gonna completely ream you with flame the next post. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: DOA

damm, i must say...that was a good post.

cheers

 

Re: DOA

Hi EMX, just fyi ...SSBM couldn't make it to EVO tourneys not becos of the tournament organisers...rather it was nintendo that somewhat, didn't agree to footage being captured on EVO DVD releases.


But oh the topic of WCMAXI....let's not open up another can of worms. ^__^

 

Re: DOA

Really now? I would never have thought Nintendo would do that, that's got to be pretty ghey for the SSBM players.

As for WCMaxi, I'd rather this topic not be about him but he did have an influential hand in making DoA look like trash to the Tekken/Soul Calibur communities.

 

Re: DOA

yeah, I just went n pestered...(more like ' hey u! tell me!) someone and got the answer abt SSBM.

haha, agreed agreed ^__^

 

Re: DOA

[ QUOTE ]
use to go around and boost about his unbeatable DoA2 strategy envolving the crouch dash into either throw or mid punch.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't this more or less the unbeatable akira strategy?

 

Interview

That interview was, uh, something.

It bears repeating:

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm sure anyone that's played Dead or Alive Ultimate understands that it's geared more to the hardcore side than DOA3 was."

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch!

What's the source of this depth Mr. Itagaki? The two stick directions of mid reversals, you say? Thank you, oh Great One. Let me retire to my gameshrine so that I can meditate and ponder the strategic possibilites that you have revealed...

But seriously, I don't know if I've ever read an interview with a game designer that was so long, and yet so devoid of anything interesting. Between Itagaki's fixation on superficial aspects of the game and the interviewer's inability to ask or mention anything about the actual fighting engine, I feel like this interview, in a roundabout way, explains why there are so few VF players in the U.S.

When even a suppossedly hardcore game journalist can meet with the producer of a very successful fighting game, and all they talk about is whether or not the game characters should be allowed to smash up cars or knock a fighter into outer space or off of Mt Everest or whether the Story Mode should be harder, well, that is kind of pitiful.

 

Re: Interview

I had fun with DOA2U for alittle bit, but once I got the T5 bundle and took the arcade stick for "quick spin" I got hooked on VF again as I always do. DOA4 doesn't look to interesting in my eyes to warrant the purchase of a 360 but who knows, down the road I might get one...

I like what TN is doing with the online aspects of the game and wish it could be done with VF5.

 

Re: Itagaki's top 5

http://teamninja.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3144194
His top 5 most hated games are hilarious. I love the picture selection too. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: Itagaki's top 5

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gifing at the Tekken pics. Too good /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Re: Itagaki's top 5

OMG im about to die /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif

 

Re: Itagaki's top 5

hahah..he hates games that are better than his

 

Re: Itagaki's top 5

Seeing his favorites and most hated has completely confused me.

Just when I think he is a man completely devoted to flashiness over innovation and gameplay, he picks as his favorites, games that are original and full of many wonderful, subtle touches.

It doesn't get him off the hook with me (like he cares) for not making DOA the game it could be. Maybe the interview with the 1up guy was extra lame because the1up guy just wanted to talk about dumb stuff.

I would, however, like to hear him defend his gameplay choices to someone who questioned why he favors dumbed-down mechanics and limited defensive options. And I'd like to ask him why he puts those terrible, terrible tag team juggles in his games.

But the Tekken pictures are funny. I'd take DOA over Tekken personally. I've never understood Tekken so I can't give reasons for why I think it's so bad. I'll just say that I hate the character design and that white dude with the Blonde afro-tower is the perfect example. So....Bad....

Any true Wiseman knows that Dragon Warrior 4 was the real beast on the NES.

 

Re: Interview

I think on one hand, you're right: the questions asked by James "Milkman" Milke (I'm assuming it's his interview because of comments on the 1up homepage) are pretty lame. If people don't like beating Story mode over & over, just play Time Attack, it's more fun anyway (and unlocks the costumes).

But, on the othe hand, I respect Itagaki's frankness and IMO smart answers to a lot of questions. I like what he had to say about hardware, the Revolution controller (or making a game for it), and how he's honest about mistakes they've made with the DOA series. He doesn't seem to be quite on the high horse he's been on in the past: no comments about how other games haven't caught up to DOA etc.

One of the few lame moments was how he dodged direct suggestions/questions on how Kokoro is a direct VF bite.

But, I think he deserves some credit at this point. Ninja Gaiden really is imo the best game in it's genre, and making a really good 3-D fighting game can't be an easy task. I think he's done pretty well. And, it takes guts to talk to the media, esp through a translator. Itagaki isn't afraid to talk to people, and I admire that. Shit, Am2 doesn't even talk to western media at all as far as I can see. The last english interview I saw with them I think Fishie did, and it was about 80% "We're working on something, but can't comment on that right now... Something might happen with something like that sometime in the future, but we can't talk about that right now, thankyou".

It's just sad that at this point, the big 3 3-D fightng games are only really looking to bells & whistles content when it comes change (customization, online-based systems, that "lobby" thing for DOA4), and have changed little to the fighting engines themselves. Imagine if all the work that went into vf.net, or SC3's various 1P modes & character customization, or DOA's new systems for selling people junk to accesorize avitars went back into the engines. It's like it's a game of one-upmanship in the "options" dept. at this point.

There are SO many ways in which the fighting engines could grow, but developers seem really stuck in a quagmire. DOA4 seems to be a tuning/fleshing out of ideas that the series has already used. VF4 basically added Charge Attacks & Sabakis into the mix. T5 also just seemed to tune things, with the Low Crush/High Crush system etc.

I think fighting game makers must not pay attention to real fighting at this point, because the basic framework seems to follow the "how can we make Kung Fu fighting into a 3-D game" idea that VF created over 10 years ago. There are so many ideas someone could take from watching real martial arts of all different kinds, the problem is that people are trying to take these ideas and squeeze them into the Kung Fu mold (look at Goh), and that bottle-necks the whole process right there.

I'm hoping VF5 offers something really new, but I'm not betting on it.

Bryan

 

Re: Interview

the doa4 gameplay trailer came out on the 1up site today

http://teamninja.1up.com/do/download?cId=3140417

Impressions are that im not really impressed. Like akiralove said before, nothing seemed really innovative, let alone calling it next gen in terms of graphics also. Theres small hops over low post objects and getting knocked over them, and running on walls(not included in video), and getting hit by random moving vehicles, but none of which that substancially adds to gameplay. If anything i can hear a bunch of people complaining about that car stage. Also the motion blurring Itagaki was so proud about, is not noticable at all. Im not sure if wasnt implemented or not for this demo, but it seems its only good for screenshots. All in all, i dont see why he claims to want to work for the most powerful hardware, if he cant meet the expectations of it. He might of proved himself on the original xbox, but DOA4 seems seriously lacking.