Dojo Question?

I went to the witch doctor and the witch doctor said, Bing bong bidididibong dibidibibidibong bong ding bong!

 

Po, you can quote all the fortune cookies in the world, its completely worthless when its coming from a scrub. If its a scrub like yourself who will apparently break his brain if he learns frame data, it's less comedic and actually pretty tragic. Even Street Fighter players learn frame data. Frame data is just one of the many layers of VF. If you were even remotely aware and knowledgeable of Zen Buddhism as you pretend to be, you could be aware of the frame data without focusing on it to the point of being a distraction. Whatever your mental block is, get over it.

 

Yeah but @ICHIBAN10000 is non of these things. Nor will he ever be!

 

Ok.,. So are you saying that quoting fortune cookies are worthless in general, or only worthless when a scrub like me quotes them?

I guess my real question is that if a frame master such as yourself were to quote fortune cookies would that be okay?

@ICHIBANin10000 of course you're right learning frame data would apparently break the brain of a scrub like me. It takes a special kind of person to be able to master frames at your level. In this regard you will always have a scrub like me at a disadvantage (excuse the pun).

I do find it interesting that you bring up learning frame data in the context of comedy and tragedy. How very ironic But I digress. Are you saying that since learning frame data would break my brain that my situation should be a comedy, but upon closer inspection its actually a tragedy? Or are you saying that scrubs like me who can't learn frame data are part comedy but mostly tragedy? So that in my state of being a frameless scrub I am simultaneously comedic and tragic but not in equal proportions

Fortunately VFDC and the VF community at large have Frame Masters such as yourself that understand all the layers of VF and can point the rest us in the right direction. I'm sure I speak for at least one player when I say thank you for your service Sifu.

I'm not quite sure how Zen Buddhism entered into all of this. But I'm sure you had a good reason for introducing it

Its a good thing you understand all the layers of VF, I can finally get a couple of my Frame related questions answered.

Considering that the Dojo and training modes for VF 5 are somewhat delinquent when it comes frame data. Is it your belief that AM2 forgot to put frame data in VF5 or felt it was unimportant to the average player? How did AM2 expect players to really be able to be effective at the game if they didn't prominently include frame data in VF5? In other words what happened to the frame data in VF5?

Also although there are motion indicators in VF4, and VF4 EVO that can be used to kind of guestimate some aspects of frame counts, they are only indicators that are very imprecise. So Is it your belief that AM2 dropped the ball when they did not include precise FRAME numbers for advantage, disadvantage, recovery times,etc in VF4 and VF4 EVO. OMG How did AM2 expect players to really be able get it right if they didn't have complete unambiguous Frame counts in VF4 and VF4EVO? A scrub like me can't begin to understand what AM2's thoughts were on Frame counts considering AM2 did not put Frame Counts in VF4, VF4 EVO, or VF5

Now as far as VF1, VF2, VF3, VF3TB, I've never played those. So seriously. Since you understand all of the layers of VF, how would you rate the frame counts that came with the dojo and training modes in those VF1, VF2, VF3, VF3TB? If its not asking too much could you rank them in order and give a brief explanation for why you chose one over the other. That what would really help a scrub like me.

Of course, I know of the existence of the Perfect guide, and various other red books, and various game guides that had frame count data. But I'm curious why AM2 didn't really include the actual Frame numbers as part of the game until VF5FS Surely AM2 must have realized that one cannot play the Virtua Fighter effectively without the frame per second advantages, disadvantages, execution, and recovery times for every character and every character move. For all of those millions of players that never got to see a Perfect guide, or its equivalents how did all those players manage to win any matches and some of them actually became top players. I'm somewhat at a lost to explain how they did it. But seeing that you understand all the layers, could you explain why the exact frame count data was not in the dojo mode and training mode for many of the Virtua Fighter series?

Also, I've never been in a Japanese Arcade, and never played one. Have the frame count numerical data been included in the dojo modes of VF1, VF2, VF3TB, VF4, VF4EVO, VF4 Final Tuned, and VF5 in the Japanese Arcade versions of the game? How would you rate the representation and completeness of frame data in the Japanese Arcade versions of Virtua Fighter. If its not asking too much could you rank the presentation of the frame data in the Japanese Arcade Versions of Virtua Fighter beginning with VF1 and ending with VF5. That what help a scrub like me.

On a Side note: @ICHIBANin10000 this summer, I'll should have some free time, to get back on PSN after having not been on for the last 8 years. I will be bringing my meaningless worthless online rank to rank mode. I'd like to personally see your mastery of VF Frame data first hand After my 8 year hiatus I'm sure it will be refreshing to see what a strong frame based player you've become. I will give you two matches to teach me how good you are and how effective frame based playing has made you. I won't lose my meaningless worthless online rank when you beat me consecutive matches will I? Doesn't it take at least three consecutive losses (I forget, its been 8 years) And since I'm a scrub, and the most famous loser on VFDC, and the master of Dead Duck Broken Wing Kung Fu, there is absolutely no doubt that you'll beat me two consecutive matches. I'm sure of it. I'll guarantee it So I think we should live stream your frame demonstration for the entire VFDC and VF Community at large to see. That way, you could record it, and then later annotate and add comments to the video and show the entire community frame by frame where your mastery of Frame data lead to your decisive win over a scrub like me If you don't I certainly will take the time to make sure it goes viral. This Frame data stuff is of paramount importance every body should see just how its done

I think it would be a very educational for the entire VF community to see how ICHIBANin10000 demolished scrub Po using true and tried Frame knowledge. I certainly have no problem with losing. Over the last 15 years I've lost many many thousands of matches to some of the worse players ever to play the game, and some of the not so worse players to ever play the game. So losing to a Frame Master such as yourself would be my privilege and just think of how much I'll learn about frames in the process, and how famous I'll become just for having the opportunity to lose to you.

I'll see you this summer M8, and please, by all means bring your maximum frame knowledge

 

We've already had this conversation but;

It's better to put out your ideas directly without all of the wu-wu. It's a bad use of time reading through you long responses that require you to parse through a lot of bullshit in order to find the important points. I mean, I want to give an honest response to show respect to the person I'm communicating with, but I'd like the partner in the conversation to respect my time as well. Cut out the fluff, stop using the labia anecdote (it's dumb, and it's the "Bags of Sand" all over again).

If I remember correctly, the frame counts were added to the replays over VF.Net, but I don't remember what iteration of VF5 it was added to. Was it added because of request of the players or just willy-nilly by AM2? Irrelevant.

The fact it is in there makes the game easier to learn. Because whether you like this feature or not, the game uses frames as a measurement for the duration of all actions in the game. They're gonna exist no matter what you feel about them, and they existed since the beginning in the series and in all fighting games.

And if you've been playing long enough, you'd notice that this series has been made more and more accessible/logical in its layout. There are no more throws/catch throws are aren't done with a command other than . Escapes have been universalized. Jab speeds have been collapsed two just 2 levels. Attack inputs for generics have been mostly universalized. All characters have tools that make them viable now. There is a lot of shit that has been made easier (for better or worse), and because of a lot of the bullshit from the older games, it should make you think on occasion, "damn, if only this old version had this feature."

I mean, if there is any thing to gripe about VF5FS's dojo is that it isn't even more expansive in its features. There should be more frame data, slow-mo, pausing, and programmable inputs to finally nail down at what points in an animation have evasive frames and etc. If we had those tools from day one, the data available would be far more expansive, regardless if all those lazy as content managers actually typed it up.

Aside from needlessly repeating yourself... (cut the fluff)

Having played most of the titles:

SS
VF5FS, with frame count and record feature make this the best for learning the series beyond a simple write ups we saw in VF4Evo

S
Evo, lots of drills, but lacked the frames

A and B
none

C
VF4, VF5, too basic but functional

D-
VF3TB, this is shit

Even more shit
VF1, VF2, I don't remember if they even had a practice mode?

Already answered, but you can ask them. But like I already said, who cares? It's a helpful tool and you're avoiding it because... reasons.

One of these is not like the other.


But... yes? A top player would know at least what moves put their opponent in nitaku when blocked. Having this knowledge opens doors to implementing strategy. It literally explains the results of our matches.

Millions? WTF are you on? This isn't Fortnite.

They probably did get those guides, or searched forums for this info (I'll bet you, that other than the drooling Sega fan-boys or eternal Hunter-ranks, most players came to this website to learn how to play this game), or made extensive notes after a session in the arcade. (I'm not a "top player" but I put in the work and did all three and posted my findings here for over a decade to make it easier for new players)

If you never put effort to actually learn the game, then you won't be able to understand.

Fuck if anyone knows, but the addition of it is useful as fuck.

We've literally played over 50 games together over three sessions in 2019. Or is that not a hiatus? And you do have the time, otherwise, how are you online for a week at a time playing VF5, Armored Core, Tekken 6 without logging out? Unless you're wasting electricity leaving that shit on, to which I say: cut that shit out.

If I'm not retired by that point, I'm looking forward to you doing Hai Shiki repeatedly as I stand on the other side of the stage with my health lead.

 

In other words, you suck at the game, you are completely ignorant of basic mechanics like frame data, so you need to stall for four months to practice to fight me for two lousy matches. You have already lost in the minds of any decent player. Team dodge.

 

You are an A-1 cuck, Po. You don't issue a challenge and postpone it four fucking months . This douchbaggery like this is why online VF died. You claim you don't need to know frame data, prove it. Fight me tonight , Sunday on stream for two matches. You will be fucking destroyed. You can't claim you don't need to know frame data to fight on a high level , then stall a match to study frame data. You issued the challenge, fight it out now, or just admit I'm right.
After 24 hours your two-match challenge is null and void.

If you pussy-out and your 24 hour time limit expires, you have to publicly concede I'm right . Only then will I give you 1 week to practice in dojo and learn the frame data you should have studied 18 years ago. Then we will have a first to 10 on stream. Thats that or stfu. 4 months is ridiculous and I'd most likely forget about it by then.

 

PSN Online Status. I have kids as well as nephews that use my PS2s, PS3s, PS4s and accounts all the time. As I stated I'll have time away from my work this summer to learn a lesson about frames from @ICHIBANin10000. He is the one who claims that I'm a scrub and haven't been online PSN for 8 years. I'm simply following his lead.

If I understand the answers given above: Accurate Frame Data Counts were not in the VF1, VF2, VF3TB, VF4, VF4 EVO, or VF5 games.

I have no gripe about VF's dojos. Since I don't use Frame Data Counts, their absence from all but one of the dojos never meant anything to me. My query was trying to determine what value AM2 thought they should have to the average customer, in as much as AM2 generally did not include Frame Data Counts in the actual games (until VF5FS). Its not that I don't like the feature @Sebo TBH I simply don't care about it. If it helps some players achieve their goal or gain confidence or explanation when playing VF , then good for them.

Outstanding Question: Do the Arcade versions in Japan even have dojo mode or include Frame Data Counts for all versions of Virtua Fighter starting with VF1?

@ICHIBANin10000 I only ask that you bring all the VF skills you have, all of your deep knowledge of the layers of VF and especially your maximum Frame knowledge. Not that you'll need it to beat a scrub like me, but rather since I'll be practicing very hard and long for the next 4 months I'll be ready to learn so much from a top player and frame master such as yourself. Also I need the four months to advertise the 2 matches. I need time to reach out to a few people I know in various fighting game communities to invite them and their friends to learn something about VF and the practical value of frames from a true master such as yourself. And since I plan to stream and record my 2 devastating losses, it will be a permanent lesson in frames, your skills, and my ignorance that we'll be able to share over and over again with the entire VF community. I can just picture the meme in my mind now


And of course in the minds of any decent player I've already lost. And lucky for you, we're bout to put my losses on blast so any mutha fucker that has any doubts whatsoever can finally see my Bull$hit in prime time. @ICHIBANin10000 you're about to make me and my Dead Duck Broken Wing Kung Fu Famous. I'll finally be able to lose in style in front of thousands of viewers

@ICHIBANin10000 arigato gozimasu

 

Shitty parenting: letting them stay online for days to play Tekken 6 for literally days at a time? Someone call child protective services, that's abuse.

You've already made this point too many times to remember.

LOL, then why are you even bringing it up?

Of course you wouldn't care about the quality of the functions in Dojo modes: you have no aim to improve your ability to ever get beyond being free.

Already answered. It's a dumb question. Why did other species in the genus homo lack the same vocal abilities? Seems like an oversight AM2volution. Why does this paint taste red? That invalidates something somehow.

You can keep repeating yourself, but it doesn't make your point land any better.

Imagine if you too used those tools. You wouldn't need to spend so much time typing up dumb bullshit about your Broken Wing Duck Fu nonsense to address the fact you spam attacks with no strategy behind it.

Not only do you not know what you're talking about, you also can't read or are a troll who just wants to waste everyone's time (mission accomplished). For fuck's sake, read the responses you get before you tippy-tappy those fingers.

You even dropped the ball here dude. Like if you're gonna be typing shit from a different language (why?) at least get the spelling right.

 

You give me 24 hours, when I told you I'm not available right now. Okay I understand my friend. Its all good. I thought that's who you were. There's no need for me to push the issue further. You're right, I've pussied out. I publicly concede that you are the ultimate frame master and I, Po I am just a scrub , and phony player who can't learn frames and who would be destroyed if I play you. I won't bother you further.

@Sebo thanks you've answered all my questions

 

Lmao I'm blown away that you're saying this to me when the only interactions we've had are one match where you got destroyed and you in my inbox crying about and refusing to play me ever again.

Have you gotten mentally stronger at all in the past 7 years? From this response I highly doubt that.

 

Master Po: Sucka MP