EVO2K9 AKA Year Of The Bums

Bullshit. The current TOS is genius and will outlive the pyramids.

 

Don't post any comments toward me and I won't say your name anymore.

I don't know what I'm talking about? You want names and positions of people I talked to at SoA? Why would I give a random forum poster that kind of information?

I will tell you this. I was and have been a gaming journalist and author for some time and have spoken to Sega on multiple occasions about VF because I'm an avid fighting game fan.

I won Sega's VF5 press tournament just after the Japanese beta ended. I talked to them at that point about what they were doing to give VF5 more exposure in the US and discussed Evo and other such things. I also asked why we never got VF4: FT.

VF5 did not sell well on the PS3 or 360. VF5 had a poor turnout at Evo, which is why you won't see it back there until VF6 (if there is one).

Compare the media coverage of VF5 to that of SF4 and Tekken 6. No comparison. Sega does not get plenty of help from the press and the fighting game community around the world is abandoning the title little by little. It used to be the dominant fighter in Japan, but Tekken has held that title for well over a year (I'm not saying Tekken is the better game, just that it's more popular in Japan right now).

There are many reasons for this, and I agree with you that Sega is definitely partially to blame, but they aren't solely to blame.

When did I say VF isn't shit compared to Tekken? Why don't you stop putting words in my mouth?

I really like VF and have said so many times. I wouldn't be here if I didn't like VF. I post here a lot more than I post on TZ, 8WR or SRK.

I'm sorry if you can't accept the fact that I think other fighting games are good in addition to VF and I think there's more to it than simply blaming everything on Sega.

The VF community is dying, just like the SC community is dying. People just aren't playing the game as much and I don't think that's 100% Sega's fault. Nothing more, nothing less.

I find it baffling that you people can't have a civilized conversation about this and simply resort to acting like I'm bashing VF.

Actually, I'm a Tekken player. I play SC and VF as well, but I hate DOA with a passion. But hey, flame on right?

Okay seriously? When did I say anything about the SC community being better than the VF community? Now you're just talking out of your ass.

Quote me... please!

I would post exactly what was said but it would only generate more flaming. If your fellow posters had a little more class then it might generate some interesting conversation, but it's obviously not the case.

If you'd like to discuss this over PM I'd be more than happy to though.

I had nothing to do with DEV '08, but VFDC players who posted last year went to the tournament and it had a solid turnout. Why would Sega be pissed about anything having to do with DEV?

 

DrDogg what are your thoughts then on the latter half of InstantOverhead's post? You didn't quote any of the juicy bits?
Also what do you suggest people do then?

 

You might consider posting names of people you have talked with, so the people on these boards that do know soa reps could deem them credible or not. Otherwise, it appears your blowing hot air up everyone's ass with,"Mystery person A said X about vf5r." It's easy to assume everyone will buy into that you have to protect these reps names etc. If that's the case then why were they releasing TOP SECRET info to you and only you?

Your not the highlander are you?
Can there be only one?

Was that civil enough?
GIMME MY VF5R you bastards!

 

Tekken vs. VF round 2. Fight!

 

You are no more random than anyone else on this forum. I don't know what kind of 'gaming journalist' you think you are but I'm an actual journalist. I cover international politics for a major news outlet. And though, while I want to keep my identity and place of work anonymous, I have accessed this site from work, and a quick look at the I.P. of my workplace from a mod would prove without question that I work indeed for a major news organization (though I'd prefer them to rename unnamed on this site).

It took me all of two hours to get multiple contacts within Sega, VFDC, and SRK, to piece together everything that has happened within the VF community in and outside of Japan since VF4 version A debuted in the arcades. The list I posted of the creative ways that Sega has run the VF franchise in the ground...why don't you quote that and comment on it? You have no real factual or long term evidence to back up anything you are saying regarding Sega ruining the VF franchise.

You know why we didn't get 4FT? You asked that question but you didn't provide an answer on this site so I'll give the one I found out. Sega of Japan not only passed on a PS2 port (for various reasons including that the game just wasn't unique enough from 4EVO) and then Sega of Europe passed on porting the game to the PSP as well. So VF4FT had two shots of arriving on non-arcade platforms but both didn't make the cut. Oh and if we didn't 'get' VF4FT...explain to me how I'm looking at an Astro City cabinet in my house right now and I have a Naomi II GD-Rom VF4FT kit (not installed at the moment) package neatly in a box in my kitchen cupboard? Maybe we did get the game after all but some of us are more fortunate in that we are able to afford the luxury of buying assorted arcade boards to play around with.

For such an avid fighting game fan you seem pretty new to this site and the FG community.

Is that why it's a greatest hits game in Japan? Or that the PS3 version was credited with helping move consoles off of the shelves very early in the PS3's life cycle? What is your definition of selling well? VF5 was a success on both consoles. It's not Metal Gear Solid 4 but we have yet to see if Blazblue or KOFXII will pass VF5 in total sales. Not to mention that those two games are getting simultaneous console releases during a time when there are larger user bases and major hype surrounding fighting games. Just look how many trailers for KOFXII there are. If KOFXII doesn't outsell VF5 then what is your argument?

And VF5's turnout has nothing to do with it not being at EVO for 2K8 and 2K9. It has to do with VF5R not being on consoles and other games taking VF's place because EVO mixes things up outside of the usual games year after year. SC4 was chosen over T5DR this year which was chosen over VF5 last year because that's how EVO works.

So when VF4 and 4EVO scored massively positive reviews? When 4EVO was featured at SRK's EVO twice and VF5 once? When VF5 became the official fighting game of WCG? When VF5 as given an episode of a TV show on Sci-Fi including featuring Adam Yuki a long time VFDC member? When VF4 and VF5 regularly make 'best of games' lists on gaming websites? Those aren't helping? They help more than Sega ever has.

If VF5R came out on consoles it would be featured title at a future EVO and VF5 is still at WCG. SRK didn't abandon VF it's Sega who abandoned the fans.

And do you honestly expect IGN to cover VF5R when it's a Japanese only arcade game? They don't cover Japanese arcades. You know that Capcom allowed SFIV arcade machines to be purchased internationally? They even sent SFIV machines to EVO last year. And you know that Gamespot even held a tournament to promote the game using those machines? Why doesn't Sega do that?

So VFDC and SRK got VF4:EVO to be a featured game twice at EVO and incurred the wrath of Sega's lawyers. So there you have the community trying to play VF and getting sued. And Sega did the same thing in Japan to some of arcade communities as well. How is the community to blame at all for this? I mean surely you as a super incredible sugoi gaming journalist are familiar with how Sega shut down the Beat-Tribe DVDs right? And you must also be familiar with how Capcom allows and LOVES the sales of the Kuroda DVDs?

You have Sega stopping arcade vendors from owning the machines. Guess how many VF5 machines there are in Japan compared to VF4 machines? Think it has something to do with Sega of Japan ruining the VF series with their business model? What part of this is not Sega's fault again? Guess how many VF4EVO and FT machines there are outside of Japan? Now guess how many VF5R machines there are...

You had the entire world asking if VF5 on the PS3 was going to have online multi-player and Sega said 'no' because 'VF5 is too complicated to be played online'. Then it becomes apparent that Sega was lying because somehow a few years later...with no breakthroughs in netcode occurring in between...VF5 Online comes out on the 360 with very solid online play. So Sega lies to the VF community and gaming world but we have to share in the blame?

You know why VF5 on the 360 has online multi-player? Because MS paid Sega to port the game AND then paid extra to give it online modes. Just like MS worked a deal to get T6BR on its console. And then MS went above and beyond with VF5 Online by getting it as the official fighting game of WCG. So now we have MS doing more for the VF franchise this iteration than Sega...

What specific example do you have of the community being at fault? We don't promote tournaments enough? Why is that solely our job? Shouldn't Sega promote things like EVO or WCG? You think Sega of America or Europe has even heard of EVO? Sega of Japan has interacted with EVO one time. To sue them.

 

this time more quotes.

the lock down will happen in 3......2......1.....

 

gdlk. I didn't even think you could top your previous post, cause that one was classic, but you did.

btw! send my regards to Parker -you know who I'm talking about- at the Daily Bugle . Tell him I said, he takes cool photos. j/k, man.

 

Why does a fan of the game have to travel anywhere other than the mall to buy a copy of VF to "support" the game... I think that's complete BS.

All SEGA needs to know to port the game is that I would buy it. Whether or not I ever become a tournament level player probably doesn't even matter to them because they already got my money and they don't make much (if any) money off EVO, DEV or any other privately sponsored tournament.

The marketing and overall success of the game is in SEGA's hands. All I can do is give them my hard earned money for their product. I'm the gamer that uses their software, I'm not in the software/game development business. If they make money off selling games, then they ought to try their best to do that... but they're not or their "best" just isn't good enough, so people are pissed...

 

Just to be fair, you don't supply a definition of "success" either. I can imagine VF5 being profitable; its development was heavily subsidized, it's a port, and it probably didn't have the biggest marketing budget either.

VF5 sold about 95,000 copies on the Xbox 360.
It sold about 225,000 copies on the PS3.

Sega probably walked away with ~$7-10 million, possibly more depending on the level of subsidization.

For comparison, Street Fighter 4 - also a port - has sold about 1.22 million units combined on both platforms. If you call both VF5 and SF4 a success, obviously their success is on very, very different terms.

BlazBlue is not off to a great start either, having sold around 30,000 units on each system (a combined 60,000 copies) in its first month of release.

(All numbers are North American sales figures only)

See above.

 

End of thread. Right here.

 

I addressed the rest of his post below.

At this point there isn't much people can do in the US. The damage has already been done and I honestly think it may take a Tekken vs. VF game to get Sega back on track and the get the community behind VF again. Sega doesn't feel VF will generate enough revenue to put a lot of support behind it, and short of a big sales burst (which isn't going to happen) there isn't much the community can do at this point.

Maybe if VF5 is the hottest game at the WCG Grand Finals that may get the attention of SoJ, but I think it's unlikely at this point. I really think TvVF would help though.

The other issue is that it's really not SoA, it's SoJ. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to get through to any Japanese companies, especially the ones who have a lot of control over their US divisions. For example, Namco Japan is much more lax when it comes to controlling what their US division does.

I didn't talk to anyone about VF5r, I talked to them before the PS3 version of VF5 hit. There was no VF5r at that point. And again, I don't feel the need to issue my credentials here. Some of the posters know who I am, others don't. If you believe what I have to say, great. If not, continue flaming. It's not my duty to give out credentials every time I post on a forum. This isn't a job interview.

I also never said they released top secret info to me. I simply stated that I talked to them about VF5 and trying to improve the scene. But please, quote me where I said I spoke to top secret people about top secret information that no one else has.

Why does this have to be Tekken vs. VF? No one has said one game is superior to the other. In fact, about the only thing said about Tekken/VF is that Tekken is currently more popular in Japan, which is nothing more than fact. I even went out of my way to state that I wasn't saying one game was better than the other.

I agree, and I have yet to ask for any credentials from anyone on this forum.

I'm an actual journalist and an author. I use the term "gaming journalist" because I feel there's a big difference between gaming journalism and normal journalism and this forum topic has nothing to do with normal journalism.

I have addressed your original post below.

Really? You own a VF4 FT board and you think that translates to "we got VF4 FT?" Wow... just wow.

I just recently registered to this site because I didn't pick up VF as a competitive game until VF5 hit the PS3. But what makes you think I'm new to the fighting game community?

It did not sell well. Pull the VF5 worldwide sales figures and compare them to worldwide sales of SF4, SC4, previous VF titles, previous Tekken titles, and even DOA4 (which was an Xbox 360 launch title). They all leave VF5 in the dust from a sales perspective.

Talk to Ponder, Inkblot or MrWizard. VF5 has not been at Evo recently because it had a poor turnout.

A review is standard across the board for all media outlets. The media outlet would be hurting itself by not reviewing VF5. It's the fact that VF5 received very little coverage compared to SF4, SC4 and Tekken 6 (which isn't even out yet).

I don't consider WCG to be part of the media. They're a fighting game tournament and Ultimate Gamer on Sci-Fi is a WCG funded show done to promote WCG, not VF5.

If VF5 had a bigger turnout, it would still be at Evo.

Perhaps you should do a quick search on IGN.com. They covered VF5 and SF4 when they were in Japanese arcades. SF4 didn't even have a confirmed console release and it was getting coverage. They also do coverage of the Japanese arcade shows.

Sega did do that. They used a Japanese VF5 machine to promote the game in the US long before the PS3 release.

I've said multiple times that Sega is "partially" to blame, meaning that the community is not the sole party to place blame on.

Sega did not lie intentionally. First of all, it was AM2 that stated the game could not run properly online and they were 100% correct. The same can be said for any other online fighter. As you've already pointed out, had it been left solely up to Sega, and more specifically, AM2, VF5 would still not have online play.

Not enough people bought the game.

Look at Capcom and Namco fighters and I don't think saying a game is "outdated" is valid justification for not playing it.

The only reason I'm here right now is because I'm playing VF5 in WCG. If I had opted not to do that like I did last year, I wouldn't be here.

I don't post much on SRK because I don't play Capcom fighters and I haven't been posting much on TZ because Tekken 6 isn't out yet on console so it's not my main focus right now.

And you're the one who seems to want everyone to think you're a "powerhouse journalist". Compare my posts to yours and you're continually asking for my credentials while claiming to be a real journalist with all of these facts and figures that I supposedly don't have.

I'd think if you were a real journalist you'd find the facts about me yourself instead of dishing out libel on an internet forum. I mean look at this post of yours:

Classy...

And I was unaware that my VFDC forum avatar had a direct impact on my credibility. I guess a baseball is much more journalistic than an anime character?

You're trying way too hard to discredit me here. Almost like you have some underlying issues that you're hiding. But, whatever...

Now here's my response to your original post:

I don't think it was a good decision to hand out lawsuits, but I do view it as a decision based solely on the bottom line. Sega didn't sue because VF was at these competitions, they sued because they weren't included in the DVD profits. Again, it was a poor decision, but very understandable from a business/profit perspective.

I think this is where Sega is partially to blame. I believe that the company thought they could use VF to increase their revenues using somewhat shady methods and I believe it backfired on them.

Actually, MS doesn't have much to do with WCG using VF other than the fact that the games used in WCG have to be on 360 or PC (or cell phone games played on Samsung phones). DOA was out due to CGS contracts, so the only fighter WCG had available was either VF or MK vs. DC and that's an easy decision for WCG.

Most of the developers/publishers behind the WCG games don't offer much support to the WCG, so I don't feel it's a big issue that Sega hasn't done much.

I'm well aware of MS and VF5 Online, the same thing happened with Tekken 6 and many other games.

More importantly, I never said my contact was super secret, just that I didn't feel the need to share names on VFDC at your request. If you don't know who I am, I see no reason why I have to show credentials on an internet forum. I also see no reason why you have to lash out at me assuming I'm lying about talking to Sega when I haven't questioned anything you've said, only debated it in a civilized manner... something you clearly can't do.

If I wanted to tell you who I was or prove that I've talked to people at SoA I could do so with a couple of urls, but I just don't feel the need to do so at your request on this forum. Especially when you're being far less than cordial about this whole thing.

Capcom did not talk to the community until Seth started working for them and outside of what Seth has a hand in, they're still lacking. Namco Hometek had very poor community relations and only Arney was able to really get in touch with the community for Namco Arcade. Now that Namco Arcade is gone, Namco faltered during the T5DR era and is just now starting to perform better with the help of MarkMan and a few others.

Sega is behind, but not all that far when compared to Capcom and Namco, especially considering Capcom and Namco have only picked things up (on the home front) with their latest fighting game releases. If Sega releases VF6 and follows the path of Capcom and Namco, they'd be about even in terms of community support.

 

Someone better not quote the above. Anyway, we already had a thread on hipster journalism. So, end this bullshit. Gaming journalism, lol. Don't get it twisted, you guys are "writers" not journalist.

 

Not defending DrDogg here, but I do think I know who he is, and it would be an insult calling him a random poster.

The real issue here is that the 10-15 people who post on VFDC daily felt insulted by DrDogg's post. We all probably thought "what do you mean we don't support it? We have the arcade boards for fuck's sake!"

But I think we're missing the point here...

The truth is that the VF community outside Japan is, by comparison (vs all the other communities), dead. Anyone who isn't blinded by their emotions can see it. And unless Sega hypes the game like MAD outside of Japan, and get people (casuals and old-school pros, not the 10-15 people I see posting here everyday) to take it up again, it's not going to ever see another EVO, DEV, or console release ever.

Case in point: How many popular Japanese arcade games are ported to the US? If you go to Japan, you'll see tons of stuff that you've never heard of stateside. I wouldn't be surprised if VF becomes a Japan-only arcade-only title. After all, AM2 is first and foremost, an arcade outfit.

Still, I hope to see a VF6 on a console eventually, even if it's going to be the swan song for the series. I just hope VF goes out with a bang, and not the traditionally quiet beheading Sega is known for.

 

Just wanted to say it was real good meeting up with Shag and Scamps for a bit. Always a pleasure to see the fellow VFDCers.

 

LOL, WTF is happening to this place people? Dr Dogg and Instant need to take a big hit and relax for a second. Dr Dogg people are getting pissed because we all bought the game, and people have even went out of the way and even bought/made cabs because we all the love game so hearing someone say that its the communities fault kinda stings. So naturally we all feel that Sega hasn't contributed like other competing franchises.

 

It's more about the lack of community size wise than the actual community.

 

I agree with TWP. It's definitely not the community to blame at all Dr.Dogg not at all. It's simply the lack of players that make it seem like the community doesn't do enough.

 

Blaming this imaginary entity called "community" as if it's feelings could be hurt is stupid. You can say that not enough people bought the game, you can say that Sega doesnt play along, you can even say that people here don't promote the game enough (which is bs in my opinion) but don't say "community is at fault". It just doesnt make sense.

ps. I don't know who you are.

Also, if you think you can do better at promoting VF, by all means be my guest! However blaming OTHERS that they arent doing something right is something Americans excel at. So do you.

 

ok what do you suggest was done by the community beforehand?

Echoing what people have said I don't see how you can really blame the community, that's why people have taken up issue with your posts.