Fahrenheit 9/11

"P.S. I think its absolutely disgusting that no US government has had the decency or the balls to apologise to Japan for its cowardly actions in WWII."

I'm sorry MonkFish, I don't understand you. how is using the worlds most powerful weapon to end the a war cowardly. WW2 was a total war, not like Iraq or Korea or Vietnam, those are what are known as limited wars. In a total war a nation uses all the power it has to completely defeat the enemy. No weapon, and no tactic is "cheap" or "cowardly". I can garuntee you if Japan had built an atomic weapon they would have used it. Japan was perfectly fine with performing medical experiments on U.S. P.O.W.'s, Murdering and raping whole populations on the Islands of the pacific, and waging a purly imperialistic war that resulted in the deaths of millions of southeast asianers. For a reference to Japanese Warcrimes got to

http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/

If the U.S. had invaded the Island of Japan would have been turned into an ash tray. Just look at the pictures of Berlin after the war to get an Idea. combine that with the suicidal tendancies of the japanese army and populace and you have a recipe for disaster. the People of Japan should thank us for ending the war they started.

It's too bad that in the second world war civilians were targets. that all started when Hitler started bombing London, afterwards the allies started bombing Berlin. soon everyone was doing it. at the time the thought of killing civilians was thought of as a way to demoralize a nation, so at the time the dropping of the bombs was not out of the ordinary.

Also, of course the U.S. won't always be on top(though I think your wrong about the world being able to get rid of us since the U.S. controls like a quarter of the money in the world and we have more nukes than we can count). the reason that Americans probaly come off as arrogant is because we are so isolated. the only countries most americans ever go to are Canada and Mexico. both of those nations are jokes were everyone speaks english, takes american money, and generally sucks off the American tit. Unfortunately most americans don't realise that other 1st world countries are proud nations, very similar to our own if only smaller. Forgive our arragance, it's a natural result of being so on top. It seems Americans are as a result inept at dealing with foreigners.

 

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Could the US have picked targets with fewer civilians? Or were those the only choices?

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rather, put it this way: Could the US have picked millitary targets instead of making a quick demoralizing blow by erradicating 250,000 civillian Japanese?

Reverse the situation. Had Japan attacked civilian installations instead of Pearl Harbour they would have been tried for war crimes since international law has always distinguised between civilians and combatants. Apparantly something the US was incapable of.

GE

 

Nagasaki and Heroshima were chosen not because of their large population but because they were industrial centers were massive amounts of weaponry was being produced. if the U.S. wanted to kill lots of people they would have bombed Tokyo.

 

They didnt use the bombs on Tokyo becouse they couldnt guarantee the safety of people there which they DIDNT want dead with the ABomb.
Tokyo already had had its fair share with the firebombings which where as murderous and humiliating as the ABomb.

 

Don't be surprised that the Japanese don't hate Americans..

In fact, many people nowadays understand history belongs where it belongs..in the past.

It has nothing to do with the current generation...

I mean...heck, let's all hate romans, all the emipre of the sun...etc etc etc

these almighty nations of yesteryears conquered nations...n they sure as hell didn't make life easy for some of the 'victims'....

I'm chinese myself...but I will not ever judge a japanese based on what his silly leaders from the past did.

Personally, I have had some experience from this kinda ' war'....

One of my best friend, who's a japanese went drinking with me. Lord n behold, this stupid idiot came from behind, smashed my friend's head with a bottle n scream ' this is for killing my ancestors! japanese bastard!'

Needless to say, the korean guy who did claims to be ' drunk as hell' when the cops came.

Another experience of mine is gaining first hand knowledge abt the bombing of hiroshima from people who were THERE.

It's something I wished I never learnt.

One thing I love abt VF.
Nobody gives a shit where u r from etc etc etc
No politics, no racial issues..etc etc etc
As long as u are good guy...u r most welcome in any nation, speaking from my own experience of coz

 

No, there was reasons for dropping those 2 bombs in those locations in Japan.

1. Targeting the civilians would create more of a impact that would make the Japanese surrender than attacking the military.

2. Location of the 2 cities consist of middle ground for the amount of ppl & value in that location to influence ppl through out Japanto rethink the war. & ppl there supposely were the most supported of the war.

3. & if you're wondering why the Major cities like Tokyo & Osaka was target, it's simple they were the decision makers. They were need to be alive to receive the pyschological impact to end the war.

Oh PoppyBoy get out of Texas more willya!
/versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]
the only countries most americans ever go to are Canada and Mexico. both of those nations are jokes were everyone speaks english, takes american money, and generally sucks off the American tit. Unfortunately most americans don't realise that other 1st world countries are proud nations, very similar to our own if only smaller. Forgive our arragance, it's a natural result of being so on top. It seems Americans are as a result inept at dealing with foreigners.

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Wow man. How is Mexico a joke? They manufacture a ton of electronic goods for the American market. That TV you're watching was probably made in Mexico. As for Canada, the people there are happy because they have 100% medical health care. That's an amazing thing.

I realize that you seem to 'think you're arrogant'. Is this something that is good, something to be proud of, or something that shouldn't be changed? That statement above basically says to me that: "American's are on top, so we're #1, so naturally we are arrogant, and we can't do anything about it, so forgive us."

What kind of attitude is that? Is that where you think America should go? America isn't the only nation in the world, you know. Eventually we have to start looking outside our own boarders, or educating ourselves about other countries. It'll bite us in the ass if we don't.

 

Free copy of 9/11 Commission Report
Found this in USA Today:

Free copy of the 9/11 Commission Report:

http://www.9-11commission.gov

Print it right from your computer or it is also on sale in book stores nation wide.

 

KTallguy said:

"Wow man. How is Mexico a joke? They manufacture a ton of electronic goods for the American market. That TV you're watching was probably made in Mexico. As for Canada, the people there are happy because they have 100% medical health care. That's an amazing thing."

the reason American businesses send jobs and plants to Mexico is because Mexico is a 3rd world nation where the employer can pay their employees a dollar an hour and they don't have to provide health insurance, retirement plans, or deal with unions. I wonder, are Canadians happy about the increase in taxes they have to pay because of thier new health care system. The United States could have a health care system if it wanted it, but we don't want the extra taxes. I always say, if the goverment can't handle social security then don't let them have control of Health Care.

 

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The United States could have a health care system if it wanted it,

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Actually, it couldn't. But don't feel bad, the pieces can never see past the board they're on. sad that when action finally replaces the long and steady stagnation that comes from choosing the death of principles before the death of the body that there is a mistake in perception; thinking the wind that closes eyes and ripples tats of clothes is through the force of charging but is only the by-product of falling.

"turning and turning in the widening gyre, the falcon cannot hear the falconer. Things fall apart. The centre cannot hold".

GE
<font color="green"> Ordung </font>

 

Please...lets remember that all of japan during wwII was more or less a military target...their factories where in the hearts of their cities...tough shit that civilians die...sorry if that is harsh but that is a reality of war...I guarantee that the united states did more to prevent civilian deaths than the axis powers would have...we did not have death camps set up, nore did we rape entire areas. Its sad that civilians die in war..but japan was training their populaton to fight to the last man...at least with the first atomic bomb, if not the 2nd, we saved lives by cowering them.

 

WWII

I would have to read a good bit of history before I could say one way or the other whether or not we were excessively brutal with the fire bombing and atom bombs in Japan. I know what my public education tells me, but I also know not to repeat that like its the gospel truth.

I do remember Robert McNamara in the movie Fog of War saying that they intentionally used incendiary bombs to ingnite the wooden houses in residential areas thus turning entire towns into giant balls of fire, I believe with the intention of inflicting massive civilian casualties. McNamara goes on to say that they probably could've been considered war criminals had the war turned out differently. I do know that war is hell and you'd have to be an idiot to have a binary view of good and evil when looking at a particular war.

 

Re: WWII

I never advocate for a binary point of view, but I do believe that there are some facts...and among them that Japan would not of surrendered without being thrown to the ground and then stomped on a few times, so to speak. Remember, Japan would more often than not shoot soilders who tried to surrender being that surrender just was not a part of their vocabulary...I will have to referance what you said about using incinderary bombs in order to inflict massive civilian casualties...I do know that in general, the United States tries to limit civilian death and damage for a number of reasons, the most cold being that we usually have to clean up the mess afterwards and the more damage we do, the more it costs to rebuild. We could of easily just leveled all of Iraq for example, but we did not.

 

Re: WWII

I wasn't directing the binary viewpoint remark to anyone in particular. I just meant that I don't know the extent to which the U.S. could've minimized casualties there, but I don't have trouble believing that we couldve be more brutal than necessary at times and that dropping incendiary bombs on residential areas was likely one of those times.

 

TIMEOUT!

Anyone else detect a colossal mismatch in the GodEater v IamthePope battle?

/me blows whistle

 

Re: WWII

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Shadowdean said:

I never advocate for a binary point of view, but I do believe that there are some facts...and among them that Japan would not of surrendered without being thrown to the ground and then stomped on a few times, so to speak. Remember, Japan would more often than not shoot soilders who tried to surrender being that surrender just was not a part of their vocabulary...I will have to referance what you said about using incinderary bombs in order to inflict massive civilian casualties...I do know that in general, the United States tries to limit civilian death and damage for a number of reasons, the most cold being that we usually have to clean up the mess afterwards and the more damage we do, the more it costs to rebuild. We could of easily just leveled all of Iraq for example, but we did not.

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I have heard this shit time and time again, the word SURRENDER DOES exist in Japan and the emperor wanted to surrender, it was the millitary top bras in Japan that didnt want to yet.

 

Re: WWII

Who were the "top bras?"

I've heard that the U.S. did not drop the A-bomb on Tokyo because they did not want to kill the emperor. He was to be instrumental in providing some continuity during Japan's post-war reconstruction, or so the story goes.

And yes, indeed there is mismatchery, but I am doing my best to ignore Iam. He vexes me, and not with his cleverness. He and his ilk are easy to find in cyberspace, especially on Toby Keith message boards. Easy to find, impossible to persuade. Not even informed enough to deserve the title of reactionary ideologue.

 

Re: WWII

The generals.

 

Re: WWII

I think you meant "top brass."

 

Re: WWII

That too but im sure some of em had tits.