George Bush's acceptance speech.

Re: I don't think wise men call people "dumn"

I don't believe people hate America, its more like a major distrust of its government.

I tell you one thing though, Russia and France probably hate your guts right now since they were effectively cut out of a lucrative oil deal.

Shame init? /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Re: I don't think wise men call people "dumn"

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe people hate America, its more like a major distrust of its government.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they hate us. Put any american outside of the U.S. and instantly you are treated like WTF are you!? Even the Canadians don't get this much hate from everyone.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

I agree with you that polling is not always 100% accurate but it is the best indication of the overall public sentiment in this country. Your probably right about a third of the populace being apathetic to the war and therefore by default supporting it, while a third support it and a final third oppose it. Now the polles show that 45% say the war was not worth it, 45% say it was worth it and 10% are unsure. this is a large drop from the polls after Saddams statue fell that showed that 80% of Americans said the war was worth it, that was when Iraqis were still waving American flags, hugging our soliders, and naming their children after George Bush.

Don't know if you noticed this MonkFish but these are polls from America not the UK. And unlike the UK in America we have private companies than give us our news, the goverment doesn't feed us any information unlike the BBC. And if you knew anything about history you would realize that opinion polls are fairly accurate and generally only have a +/- 3pt. difference between what the actual national opinions are. The reason no one marched in support of the war is because they knew it was inevitable and there would be no point to doing it.

Actually Plague, I didn't research that "textbook definiton" of the civil war. I was born knowing it.

Don't know why you think people hate America. I'm not very worldly but when I went to Mexico this summer everyone seemed to like me, or maybe they just liked my money.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

[ QUOTE ]
IamthePope said:

And unlike the UK in America we have private companies than give us our news, the goverment doesn't feed us any information unlike the BBC...

...Actually Plague, I didn't research that "textbook definiton" of the civil war. I was born knowing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't really matter who owns the news, just matters how biased it is. I've heard the BBC to be quite objective. Besides, I read that you trust our current government, so why would government-owned news be so bad (as your tone about the BBC implies)? Careful when you bash and support government from one half-sentence to the next. I think it hurts your credibility. I think you're well fed by our government.

Privately owned news companies have no need for objectivity. They only need ratings and the ability to sell advertising.

To comment on the second part of your quote - I think I was born knowing how to breathe, eat, make noise, piss, and shit. I didn't get that Civil War knowledge-implantation-from-birth gene that you have.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

It is not necessarily good to have private companies giving us our news. Is Rupert Murdoch's Fox News a better journalistic outlet than the BBC? How about GE or Westinghouse? Might there be conflicts of interest present when we get our news from giant corporations?

1,000 dead in Iraq.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

Just briefly, as I can't be fucked to get involved in yet another political discussion.

I realise that the US is a pretty big and cool country to live in so quite a lot of US citizens never venture past its borders. But those who do get a lot of heat for the actions of its leaders.

Very often I travel with US citizens (often, though not exclusively, diplomats) on business. These trips include visits to countries in Europe as well as more obscure ones e.g. in Central Asia.

I wouldn't go as far as describe US citizens as "hated" but you folks are definitely disliked and a lot of flames come you way.

This, I find astonishing, as just over 50 years ago, your country was probably the most loved one on this planet. If this is no indication that sth. has gone (at least a wee bit) wrong with your leadership (I am not talking about Bush or republicans exclusievly here) since then, I don't know what is.



And thank God for the BBC.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

"these polls are from America not the UK" - Irrelevant, the point is you were trying to use opinion polls to prove a point - which is wrong.

"And if you knew anything about history you would realize that opinion polls are fairly accurate and generally only have a +/- 3pt. difference between what the actual national opinions are."

More bullshit, you've blatantly just made that figure up - you speak for the entire nation do you?

Oh and I guess you didn't hear about the two public inquiries (sp?) in this country caused largely by a BBC journalist's criticisms of the government and the way they drew up Iraq's WMD dossier?

FYI the BBC is not government controlled, it mostly operates under the same 'free-market' rules as every other news corporation. The only difference is they receive a percentage of TV licensing from the public.

KungFu Smurf "No, they hate us. Put any american outside of the U.S. and instantly you are treated like WTF are you!?"

Probably no more than Americans hate the French or Canadians?

 

Re: the Land of Oz

I don't understand the whole thing with Canadians, really. I always thought it was some kinda friendly rivalry.

As far as France goes, again, I got no clue. I'm supposed to hate em though.

Feh...Sometimes, I think we need a little ethnic cleansing, get rid of all the white folks in this country.

Might do us some good.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

Hey... I'm white ! =P

These people give white people a bad name ...

I just wish people in the US would wake up and realize that the US is not SO important that we can ignore every other country. Eventually shit is going to come back to us, and 9/11 will look like child's play compared to it. Security is never 100% fool proof, and to live in a country with our (supposed) ideals, like freedom, it's very hard to filter out those would-be terrorists.

I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but the way things are going ...

 

Re: the Land of Oz

One shouldn't hate what one doesn't know.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

I agree with L33, people who hate whole societies are ignorant and foolish. Where to people get to thinking I'm rich, and white. I could be green for all you know.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:

Hey... I'm white ! =P

These people give white people a bad name ...

I just wish people in the US would wake up and realize that the US is not SO important that we can ignore every other country. Eventually shit is going to come back to us, and 9/11 will look like child's play compared to it. Security is never 100% fool proof, and to live in a country with our (supposed) ideals, like freedom, it's very hard to filter out those would-be terrorists.

I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but the way things are going ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey man, I'm white too. Sometimes I think this place would be better off if they were to just turn around and hang us. Probably not, but it would be worth a try. That's how desperate it is in this country.

As far as this all coming back to us, I want to ask you KTallGuy: Do you feel safer now, after the invasion of Iraq, or did you feel safer back in 1994, one decade ago? If that's too far to remember (it is for me), then how about in 99?

I certainly don't feel safe in this country anymore. You can't fight the terrorists with force and expect to win.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

Safety is relative. I don't really know what it feels like to be 'not safe'. I haven't been directly impacted by an attack. *knock on wood*

People might not really feel safe, but that feeling has not grown to the point where people are truely altering their daily routine. I live close to San Francisco. It's a dangerous place to be, technically. I'm mostly afraid of chemical weapons. That shit could kill so many people, it's almost unbelievable.

But dude, white people are white people. Maybe we should eradicate some of the very selfish ways of thinking that still pervade our society(which have a way of effecting many of the richer people in the world, and many of those people happen to be white..), but there are plenty of decent white people =P I know what you're getting at, but rephrasing it would be good.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:

Safety is relative. I don't really know what it feels like to be 'not safe'. I haven't been directly impacted by an attack. *knock on wood*

People might not really feel safe, but that feeling has not grown to the point where people are truely altering their daily routine. I live close to San Francisco. It's a dangerous place to be, technically. I'm mostly afraid of chemical weapons. That shit could kill so many people, it's almost unbelievable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I base how safe I feel on how secure of a future I have here. The road that we're following, declaring open warfare on everyone who looks at us funny, has the future looking VERY worrisome. Like you've pointed out, anti-american sentiment is growing. If we don't find some way to become the beneficient leader of the world, then we're going to fall faster than any empires before us.

I have changed my life...I've tried to save as much money as possible, so that I can pay off my college debts as quickly as possible, so I can get the hell out of here. Hopefully I can get out before our reputation is tarnished to the point where even sympathetic americans aren't accepted anywhere else in the world.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

[ QUOTE ]
Painty_J said:

Well, I base how safe I feel on how secure of a future I have here. The road that we're following, declaring open warfare on everyone who looks at us funny, has the future looking VERY worrisome.

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We haven't just gotten rid of countries that "looked at us funny". We gotten rid of totalitarian states that were a threat to the entire world by either proliferating WMD's or making their nation a safe haven for terrorism. countries that were making a profit off of these totalitarian states might resent the fact that we liberated their people and deposed their goverment, thus depriving them of lucrative oil contracts. Or they might have been offended because we didn't ask permission to liberate 50 million people. whatever the reason they like us less its no reason to get scared and pack up your bags and move.

I think any major violent reaction to terrorism could only hurt our standing among people in the world. And violence is the only reasonable way I've ever heard of dealing with terrorists who want to kill you. I'm all for a peaceful solution to international terrorism, but I have yet to hear of one.

 

Re: the Land of Oz

[ QUOTE ]
IamthePope said:
I think any major violent reaction to terrorism could only hurt our standing among people in the world.

And it has.

And violence is the only reasonable way I've ever heard of dealing with terrorists who want to kill you.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Whatever happened to turning your cheek. Whaever happened to resorting to something other than revenge.

I'm all for a peaceful solution to international terrorism, but I have yet to hear of one.

I'm sure if Bush wasn't so intent on going to war, he'd come up with one.



[/ QUOTE ]

 

Re: the Land of Oz

Damn Lee...would you like your shrine flaked in gold or platinum?

 

Re: the Land of Oz

y? did i sound like i was preaching? =P i surprised myself jus now, reading over wat i said lol.

im not a religious person... havent prayed outside of mass in like... 11 years i think lol. i jus follow some Christian morals and believe in a God... but not necessarily Christ.