Goh vs. fast characters and Abare play...

Goh gets Subaki in easy though, so whats the problem?

 

WTF Matt?! Nearly gave me a fit trying to read that. You smokin crack or is your space bar fucked? lol

 

Most worthwhile bump evah?

 

+ For problem situations.

In framewise advantage I would propably use or Gohs knee.

If opponent uses primarily high attacks, +~+ is slow and unsafe but it does hideous damage on counterhit.

 

I gotta agree. For Goh crouch-backdash into shoulderram are the nuts and bolts in VF5.

 

Oh and I forgot over-utilizing the + catch throw. Use it

 

That catch-throw doesn't interrupt moves so it worth jack against abare.

 

Damn, youre right. Shows what I know about Goh..

 

still new to vf but heres what i think:

MID RANGE:
Spacing is very important with goh, he has some decent mid range pokes that can keep abare foes at a distance makin them thinking twice before they start rushing u down. At mid distance:
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1KG is good at keep them from rushing u down as most ppl do not really take gohs lows seriously unless u become predictable with it, (close range it has some evasive properties as well, looks like it will duck under H jabs. Maybe even at small disadv??) ON CH, it causes knockdown, creating combo oppurtunity if they do not tech.. if they do tech (most ppl tech to the front)
u have the 2/8K+G to tech trap them followed by a low throw.
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3K+G is also a good move as it will go under highs and on CH u will get 60 damage with the CH 6P+G follow up. ON non CH u will be at negative 4, so a good follow up would be a low sabaki into basari if u can pull it off( ull be surprised on how many ppl will 2P after 3K+G, or a DM PK into a dash throw, or BF K+G after a successful DM PK (CH; check for the yellow light) (although its risky; be prepared to eteg on block), as the BF K+G (which will come out is a special high and will beat some mids or foes attempts at 2p. Its risky but BF k+G, FF P+K,P, should ram is alot of damage.
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I personally abuse 4,3 P at mid distance, as it will go under highs, maybe some mids? After it hits u can shoulder ram if they abare ( move less than 19 frames??.. although it seems like it beats out moves that activate faster..) Again at neg 1-5 alot of players will 2p, where u can low sabaki or mid sabaki if they choose a universal 14 frame attack, I wouldnt do a kick sabaki as u are close to the opponent and ppl usually dont do kicks at close range unless they know a sabaki is coming. DM PK's after hit is good although on block, be prepared to get thrown or hit on block. If they evade after 4,3 P, go for a throw. Spacing and creating whiffs and punishing is very important at mid range for goh as he is an anticipation/defensive character.

-d/f d/f p is one of ur fastest launch punisher after whiffs and has nice evasive properties as well, even at mid range.

-His K and d/f k also is great at mid range, on block make sure u defend accordingly (CFG)

-FF K CH... is pretty safe if u fuzzy G

-B K, if they are near a wall.

close range:

most ppl already mentioned crouch-backdash into shoulderram, sabaki's etc, etc. A simple P, 2p, or evade when moves are linear to stop the progression (to know when to P or 2p since most close range attacks that ur foe will do will be not launch punishable) u can also back crouch dash and see what they will do next into say a shoulder ram if u see them whiff, after a P or a 2p.goh has a deadly flowchart upclose once hes at adv. once u stopped them, goh is pretty good at close range. He has alot of tools to punish u, PK or PK BT for ex. his 14 frame d/f P on CH is plus 7 creates stag on crouch. 6PP or 6P+K P which is hit checkable at 15 frames. KNEE on CH does alot of damage etc etc. successful sidestep BF P lauch.Sorry its late and im rushing this post....

Conclusion

-with goh ur defensive has to be very very good. Not only do u need to know ur own frame data, when to fuzzy G , when to Crouch fuzzy, eteg, etc but most importantly u need to know ur foes frame data. For ex, say if u were fighting an abare sarah player who randomly does PPPK which leaves her at neg -18 on block, u might wanna do a d/f d/f P launch instead of say a PK BT into BT flowchart,or a throw as throws can be broken. U wanna go with guaranteed dmg unless ur feeling risky. theres a huge difference in dmg right there from punishing with only a PK and a d/f d/f P combo. When i first picked up goh, someone told me to not use him as he is one of the hardest characters to use... and now i know why. I personally think theres alot of knowledge and time required to learn goh, because if u dont know ur foes attacks, ur goh isnt gonne do well. Alot of ppl try goh but give up or never get past a certain playing level. A big part of making Goh good, is punishing ppl's mistake on block and captilizing with max dmg and u wont be able to do that without knowing foes frame data. Goh doesnt have the luxury to cancel strings well or rush u down as other characters can. Most of gohs attacks even on hit will leave u at disadv, i do know that alot of characters have at least 1 move besides P that will put them at positive to continue ur offense. Goh is constantly at disadv. . Alot of characters can play well being random, but goh is very predictable. What i plan to do in the near future to help out fellow goh players and mostly myself make goh better against abare is to create a punishment list with the best "guaranteed" follow up against the move (thats alot to do so i hope few goh players can help me in this process and maybe we can put it up on leonarduk's goh notes after we do it character by character). Or if ppl that use other characters can dislose when A 2p or a P cant stop their strings would be helpful.. Cus i honestly believe the best way to counter abare is knowledge, spacing/defense, and then Yomi.

 

Pressing enter once in a while is nice too.

 

enter

ya i was editing while u wrote that sir

 

While mack you've came a long way. now all you have to do is stop ducking after tech roll and you will be rockin

 

will i ever live this down? how long ago did i make that thread?

 

It was very funny. When i 1st started i once said, "lei fei struggles with frames".

Luckily, people don't bringing it up, lol

 

Don't take it hard. It's just fun, that's all. Besides, most people probably don't even know where it comes from. You should be proud you've made such lasting impression all over the world.

I mean, I use that phrase sometimes and well.. have you ever played Skate2 and got the "Killed it!" phrase to come out. That how I feel when using it. It's just that badass.

To say something on topic: I think Goh does pretty good on Sarah just for b,f+K sabaki. No need to even spam it, just make Sarah aware you have it. It really does shut down a load of her options and as far as I know she's one of the 'fast' characters. Then again a Sarah who know her basics is the most scary one.

 

lol i guess my post showed the wrong emotion.. I smiled when i saw that again because i thought everyone forgot lol.. but thanks anyways.. i now know not to use the word "guarantee" unless i know what im talking about lol.

I would say something in this topic but i may be absolutly wrong lol

 

lmao, man ur on fire today

 

well ill try to help anyways.. what I like to do against fast characters is just wait until they try to throw and duck, Shouler ram and go for a good damaging throw. I also like doing the DM p+k too if they are not expecting it. When i fight Aoi it is really fun to sabaki her mid mix- ups.

 

Goh has other moves that work really well beside sabaki for abare players.

1st lesson: If they always attack at disadvantage hit them with 6,k (knee) you can go for the noobish down throw or go for the free juggle with the 3,3,p or 4, p+k (uncharged)

2nd lesson: 3, p+k 2_,6 p+k already been discussed go under most highs and if you don't know the greatness of these moves then you shouldn't be playing goh.

3rd lesson: down punch is a most for all abare players and a big annoyance. just remember that down punch on block lead to a 3, p which is pretty safe and staggers on counter just watch out for the dm which is always the next move when down punch doesn't work. On the subject on dm p+k on block for most characters its a free 270 throw.

Well break time is over. More info to come.

 

honestly. learn the character ur facing.
what i do is.
i study a character for 1 week. Study their frame data and memorize it... learn which way to evade. learn when to 2p or how to react on a High string. ( perhaps play them for a bit to learn some of their flow) Goh, is only as good as how much u know the other character. btw DM and OM at last momment into K will destroy abare if u know when and how to do it. Um... K and 3 KG is a good setup... push them back and get ready for their abare.