H2H: Wolf vs. Jeffery

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

DEEP BREATH....

Shang: b,f,f is as easy as 1, 2, 3 and can be executed in 1 frame all the time

is very difficult to use without losing one or two frames if timing is tight.

Shang: blatant misinformation about recovery in Jeffry's moves and stupidly insisting Jeffry is a good poking character...

Already addressed. Shangster is once again talking out of his ass and trying to cloud erros with expletives.

Shang: TKS sucks, Jeffry's knee is sooooo good and long range, and other misinformation

Sure, Jeffry's knee is better for light weights in recovery counter combos, but it's WORSE against heavy weights. Also, why in the hell would opponents ETEG at long range? Duh, they do so only in disadvantaged situations after a blocked attack, and 99% of the time Wolf's TKS would be in range in those situations. And Jeffry's knee, if you play VF at all, isn't exactly long range either.

Shang: "b+P? who the fuck uses b+p vs. TR?"

LOL. We're talking about dealing with muliple throw escapes, not TRs. Get on with the program.

Shang: Some bitching about Wolf's SS and that nobody uses it.

Too bad you haven't played in Japan or faced good Wolfs.

Shang completely misreading once again: "please list me a combo that does 100 points of damage when Wolf’s SS beats a dodge.

That was in reference to an MC combo.

Shang: "Ice-9 Why dont you just STFU and die? Being a noobie Jeffry player that you are.. just stfu, and stop posting on shit you know nothing of."

10th dan Jeffry, 65% win rate. Nishispo.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Let's take Jeffry vs. Jacky as an example. Jeffry does , Jacky blocks

1. If Jacky does and Jeffry does not do the canned follow-up, Jeffry eats huge damage because he's at -14.

2. If Jacky attacks and Jeffry does do the canned follow-up, Jacky gets countered with the follow-up but that is not much damage.

3. If Jacky just blocks and Jeffry does not do the canned follow-up, it's at worst an even situation for Jacky. Experiened players should be able to sense when the canned window ends and Jeffry is able to move again.

4. If Jacky just blocks and Jeffry does the canned follow-up, Jeffry eats huge damage from > heavy pounce.

As you can see from the above, in the long run this guessing game heavily favors Jacky, which is why is not a good poking attack for Jeffry. I.e. Jeffry shouldn't use this move unless he expects to hit the opponent or unless he's at very long range (in which case you go to the 3rd scenario above). That's why most of the time when you see good Jeffry players use this move, it's usually after a back dash. It's NOT used like a sidekick.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

All you did was gave an example of reverse nitaku at small to no advantage.... which is what Jeffry's game in the given situation really is.

I don't see how it's different at all, aside from the fact you are assuming that Jeffry always do canned follow up intead of opting to use maybe a bigger attack.

We know why that is true though, and this applies for all characters playing small advantage nitaku, because doing a big move at small advantage is risky due to the quick interrupt attacks possible. So jeffry is much safer doing the canned follow up.

Of course in the scenario you gave, you can say Jacky wins in the long run, but that's like saying if any character would play nitaku with small dmg safe mids or a throw, an opponent that plays reverse nitaku would win in the long run as long as he does a big attack.

We can also look at this the other way, if Jacky always try to interrupt with or tries to throw, Jeffry wins in the long run if he does the canned since it downs Jacky and counter hits.

It's only legitimate in this case to assume that Jeffry does the canned because it's canned, but in actuality, Jeffry doesn't have to do the and Jacky doesn't have to play reverse nitaku with .

I'm not claiming that they are good pokes, they are just better than Wolf's. Not that it makes Jeffry stronger, just that he has more tools and is more complete. The only thing we can say is that the second poses a risk on both ends. No opponent of Jeffry would risk getting hit by the second cause Jeffry can win that way, but Jeffry won't do the second hit most of the time cause it's high risk and low reward. The point is that Jeffry has a chance to play this mind game even after the first hit is blocked, but Wolf can not.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

As long as you guess 50% right of the time, you will always win because... Let's take Jeffry vs. Jacky as an example. Jeffry does , Jacky blocks etc etc.

I'm going to help you out on your math there because you obviously can't yourself.
#1, you are assuming Jacky have blocked . Maybe in your textbook vf you think you can block perfectly or some shit, but you should really study why people do in the first place. Anyways, let's just you can block this 50% of the time.. Jacky would still need to guess right? Correct me if i'm wrong here cuz you listed 1-4 options after blocking. So you see Jeffry can toss this move at the right distance hoping it hits.. THEN.. he can still react base what happens next... This is call poking moron. Can you do that with wolf? While somehow you started comparing wolf and jeff, and ended up with calling jeff a good poker. It's common knowledge heavies aren't good pokers, but jeff can poke a lot better than wolf... Only an idiot like yourself can start an argument (with youself) about Jeff being a better poker than Jacky. Why because you can't make a point so you have to point out the obvious?

That was in reference to an MC combo.

Really?? I didn't know how much SS MC combos do. But you are a stupid idiot when you listed 100points when you are talking about: against dodging, no MC, against missed P and d+P no MC, again crouching, no MC. So i'm still waiting for a combo that does 100 points damage on those situations.. Mr. 10th dan!

why in the hell would opponents ETEG at long range?

This coming from a guy who advocates backdash SS?

10th dan Jeffry, 65% win rate. Nishispo.

Man it just shocks the world when Ice-9 pulls out his 65% record.. damn... that really must make up for all the bullshit coming out of you? SIXTYFIVE fucking PERCENT man.. You probably be at SEVENTY PERCENT if you just keep on pulling out your cards whenever someone decent chanllenges you like people said you do. You are a real hero Ice-9! You know it's sad when you can't make a fucking point and had to resort to the old "you didn't play in japan" line.

so if you are competent you should be able to...

Com'on, you can be a little more original than that???

Shang...you need to get your head out of your ass and get a girlfriend.

This statements shows you are a presumptuous asshole:
1, Why do you think I don't have a girlfriend ice-9? You think everyone here is a no life, rich, ugly kid that has to make a wesite to be known?
2, Why do you assuming i'm stright? Do you have a problem with gay people ice-9? I mean just about everyone posting here from europe is gay. This site is a magnet for fags. do you have a problem with that? Ice-9, it doesn't mean you got raped by some homeless dude on the train that all gay people are bad. You'd make a good fag yourself.

Do you really believe you are more influential and convincing by trying to sound like an asshole?

No unlike you, I don't value being influential and convincing on Ice-9's creation: Virtuafighter.com.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Jeffry can't use a bigger attack because if he does and then , he is automatically at -14. That is the key.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

What if he does and it hit then Jeffry press , is it automatically -14?

Owned.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Shang: "So you see Jeffry can toss this move at the right distance hoping it hits.. THEN.. he can still react base what happens next... This is call poking moron. Can you do that with wolf?"

So by that definition I guess you think Wolf's is an awesome poking tool. OK you win--EVERY character in the game is a good poker!

Shang:"But you are a stupid idiot when you listed 100points when you are talking about: against dodging, no MC, against missed P and d+P no MC, again crouching, no MC."

Original sentence (which you quoted by the way): "It's very effective--beats failed dodges, moves like P and low P, whiffed throw escape, crouching opponents, etc. for 70-100 points."

Beats moves like P and low P which can be MCed if opponent is late, but also included in that are slow reverse nitaku attacks. OK so it wasn't the clearest statement, but little did I realize I was in a court of Shang law.

Me: why in the hell would opponents ETEG at long range?

Shang: This coming from a guy who advocates backdash SS?

How is this illogical? Wolf has advantage and thinks the opponent may ETEG, so backdash SS. Wolf certainly won't do it if the opponent is far away.

Shang: Trying to attack my credibility and ability as a player, but can't deal with the evidence.

Maybe you just need to STFU dude, especially if the only thing you can boast about is beating Andy's Kage LOL.

Shang: "No unlike you, I don't value being influential and convincing on Ice-9's creation: Virtuafighter.com."

The ONLY person who keeps mentioning that I founded virtuafighter.com is you Shang. Thanks for doing my PR, but really, I don't need VFDC to prop my ego. Responding to your posts works just fine.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

Jeffry can't use a bigger attack because if he does and then , he is automatically at -14. That is the key.

[/ QUOTE ]

Realistically, the opponent do not know if you pressed or not, and if you want to use a based attack, you don't even need to press . It's not -14 because we don't know if the opponent is going to attack RIGHT AFTER he blocks the first hit. If you know someone is always going to take advantage of the full -14 window, just do the second and take the guaranteed dmg and play the amazing oki game that Jeffry has.

I agree that realistically Jeffry wouldn't usually opt for something big in that situation, but realistically Jacky wouldn't opt for .

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Yo Ice-9!
You know the , is not a real combo unless the first hit is counter right? And the first hit doesn't knock down, and it doesn't avoid and at a distance like Jeffry's ? Nice comparision asshole.

How is this illogical?

It's illogical because if you don't backdash (hence put you in far range) you can't avoid and +. If you use TKS to beat DTE, you better make sure you are right next to him, which means he can still punch you. I thought this is pretty simple for a 10th dan Jeffry, but appearently I have to spoonfeed you this shit like a noob.

Maybe you just need to STFU dude, especially if the only thing you can boast about is beating Andy's Kage LOL.

Yah and NYC raped your ass, and NYC is America last time I checked, so why don't you take your "Never played Japanese" shit elsewhere?

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Why are we focusing on anyways? Jeffry has better poke moves than that. The only thing that comes remotely close for Wolf is , and we all obviously know how crappy it is. Granted, both Jeffry and Wolf are highly reliant on , pressure, and Jeffry is one of the worst poking characters in the game (compared to the likes of Pai, Lau), but still leaps and bounds better than Wolf, and that is the point. Why is that point constantly being avoided?

Edit: btw, Jacky only has 2 frames to decide to do ............... /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Well it's a guessing game right? So Jacky either goes for or a throw, or he just blocks in anticipation of the second . But the probability and pay-offs favor the defender, not Jeffry.

It's the same concept for Pai/Lau's and Shun's .

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Shang: "You know the , is not a real combo unless the first hit is counter right? And the first hit doesn't knock down, and it doesn't avoid and at a distance like Jeffry's ? Nice comparision asshole."

You know that is -6 on block right? Wow, an uncounterable attack! I guess that does make it really crappy compared to , which is -14 on block!

Shang: Not understanding how BD SS works

Try it in training mode before you complain it doesn't work. It might actually make your Wolf better.

Shang: "Yah and NYC raped your ass, and NYC is America last time I checked, so why don't you take your "Never played Japanese" shit elsewhere?

LOL. Who in NYC raped my ass? Don't try to turn NYC against me, stick to your own inferiority complex.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
And SS, 12 frames on block..only? ONLY? Only a P,K in the face. And no.. it doesn’t avoid a lots of attacks, in fact it barely avoid ANY attacks.. And no it’s not an auto 70-80 point combo. No decent Wolf will toss out the SS unless: 1 he pretty sure it's gonna hit. or 2 he's gambling cuz he's gonna die. This is not a move you want to toss out to see what happens, junior. This is something a text book player like you will never learn. As far as attacks are considered Jeff just plain outshine Wolf in every way. Stop trying to prove Wolf has good attacks; you only make an ass out of yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly the lamest thing i ever heard about SS~

---

SS avoids any high attack at a mid to large frame window

SS avoids long mids at a mid to small frame window

SS avoids low attacks (low P) on a small / arwquark frame window

-i have ducked jacky's beat knuckle, jacky's ff+k, shun's chowan, wolf's side kick.

you can use SS on inaccurate advantage, or just throw out when u feel like interrupting something as a high rewrd gamble.

you can use SS on a TR rise.

you can use SS to interrupt rising attacks and or duck a rising mid

NO wolf player throws out SS when they are going to die, are you serious?? after just flaming your ass off that it's -12~ so you can get blocked and guaranteed KOed???

hahahahaha~

and yes, you can use SS on slow evade, and it also tracks on opponent to his back if they inupt a command during an evade.

and yes once you connect SS, you get like 89 damage standard, and it ends with a spinning hit for your chance to get either garanteed floor damage, or a good oki folowup.

if you seriously dont use SS or all the other good tools your bitching about ~ then it's probably the reason why you and others here are bitching~~

pro tip: ~ use good rmoves, 20 frames doesnt say sh*t about SS.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
BK__ said:

SS avoids any high attack at a mid to large frame window

SS avoids long mids at a mid to small frame window

SS avoids low attacks (low P) on a small / arwquark frame window

-i have ducked jacky's beat knuckle, jacky's ff+k, shun's chowan, wolf's side kick.

you can use SS on inaccurate advantage, or just throw out when u feel like interrupting something as a high rewrd gamble.

you can use SS on a TR rise.

you can use SS to interrupt rising attacks and or duck a rising mid


[/ QUOTE ]

I would like to see a vid where this is done in a consistent manner. I've seen in japanese clips of Jeffry avoiding mids with but I was not able to reproduce it. I would certainly like to see SS do all those you claim in a consistent manner, I know you have the capability to produce a vid BK, please do.

You can't just say it has been done so that's what makes it good. It has to be consistent and dependable.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Ice-9 Said: Don't try to turn NYC against me, stick to your own inferiority complex.

Please ice-9.. Only a dumbass like you think just because someone beat you in vf, they are against you. It is this kind of lame ass competitive spirits that make you an asshole of a person. Hey, I might be an asshole online but you are an egostically prick hiding behind that polite english and smiley face. Facts are facts, and here is a fact: YOU ARE AN AVERAGE VF PLAYER for U.S. standard. It's a fucking a shame that after going there going there, japan, asia everywhere, you still can't beat people homebrewed in the states. You can't even beat the boston locals in the vf3 days... You get raped by NYC regulars on a regular basis. Everyone here would think you would rape me when we play given the amount of selfblowing you've given yourself. But guess what? You've hardly managed to cut even with me everytime we played.( here comes.. but i've got better now line)... It's shameful that someone like you, who traveled and experienced 1000times more can't win against someone who plays vs. 3 people 99% of the time. Keep on waving that 10th dan card around, i'm sure you get a lot of respect from the japanese. 10th FUCKING dan man! And don't forget that 5th dan Wolf card you got too. 5th FUCKING dan man! Amazing shit! I want to see you introduces yourself to some famous player with: "Hi, my name is Ice fucking 9, and I am a 10th fucking dan, what is your name?" They'd probably laugh to death.

BK said: possibly the lamest thing i ever heard about SS~

BK, I know you take offense when people question your or your vf peers' skills, and I've never played you. I saw some videos of you. And to be honest I don't see you using this attack to do anything you said here. It seems you already have the mindset before your post to flame, but that's a lot of bullshit you just wrote.

i have ducked jacky's beat knuckle, jacky's ff+k, shun's chowan, wolf's side kick

Just because you have done it doesn't make a good thing to do.. Are you encourging people to use SS to beat these attacks without frame advantage or something? that could be just plain stupid. In case you don't know how hit detection works, the move with the greater damage will win if they collide on the same frame, so the SS will eat alot of attack with its 30base damage. Such as.. raising attacks, but for you information any high damage move can break a raising attack, but you don't see people going around break raisers 24/7 do you?

NO wolf player throws out SS when they are going
to die, are you serious??

Yes Wolf players will do this as a desperation attack, I figure you being an experienced wolf player would know this feeling by now?

and yes once you connect SS, you get like 89 damage standard

List me a 89 point damage off a non-MC (which is what you will get if you hit people out of a dodge, beat d+p or p) that works on everyone. In fact list me a 70 point combo after you use the SS's evasive properties to beat a d+p. Also, it's an established FACT, SS isn't good vs. dodges, toekick stunner is a better choice (the best choice wolf has, but still sucks compare to jeff's). That doesn't mean it won't hit a dodge, but this move shouldn't be your main game vs. this situation.

you can use SS on inaccurate advantage, or just throw out when u feel like interrupting something as a high rewrd gamble.

This would make you a shitty wolf player man. I don't know maybe you are just so good that you make SS hit stuff out of nowhere?? Show me some example clips please?

here's my Pro tip: next time you block a low kick, don't low kick back. saw this on your videos.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
BK said: possibly the lamest thing i ever heard about SS~

BK, I know you take offense when people question your or your vf peers' skills, and I've never played you. I saw some videos of you. And to be honest I don't see you using this attack to do anything you said here. It seems you already have the mindset before your post to flame, but that's a lot of bullshit you just wrote.

[/ QUOTE ]

firstly, i'll state this, ~ i've never once claimed im a good player, whatever my skill level is, i have no right to know, i dont go around boasting, myke only proved yesterday that i suck vs FT kage, im greatful to know im not great, because i only play to improve. i only inupt here what i do know, if it's a fact, i'll state it.~ has nothing to do with me.

secondly, ur right~ i used a rude tone in this thread, and im not normally a flamer. i dont like it. ~ mabye i just got carried away by the usual routine here~ i thought it was *cool* to diss somebody personally first and give useful information second~ that's how it goes right? ~

well anyway, back to business~ ur right, i didnt use SS in such an extreme way as i just posted, but im glad i posted that infomration now, because it makes me realize i can do this. i went onto training mode today and practiced SS vs jacky's ff+k, jacky's b,f+k+g, jacky's df+k, jacky's lowP on open stance, and it worked great~! and i'll even post vid when i find my capture device~

[ QUOTE ]


i have ducked jacky's beat knuckle, jacky's ff+k, shun's chowan, wolf's side kick

Just because you have done it doesn't make a good thing to do.. Are you encourging people to use SS to beat these attacks without frame advantage or something? that could be just plain stupid. In case you don't know how hit detection works, the move with the greater damage will win if they collide on the same frame, so the SS will eat alot of attack with its 30base damage. Such as.. raising attacks, but for you information any high damage move can break a raising attack, but you don't see people going around break raisers 24/7 do you?



[/ QUOTE ]

if i can find a way how to use the very specific proporties,in a very specific way, i will let you know.

my initial point is that "it is a high reward gamble option" and it isnt a small chance gamble either, you can very much uses this in reverse nitaku even if u want to just beat out throw~ it's high reward, initially, yes, you can use this on rising TR, you can ask myke or anybody who was there yesterday, i was really using this move alot, and mostly testing it furthur, infact vids are to come later, i'll see for myself again~

and yes, alot of high damage moves beat rising attacks, but wouldnt you rather a big window SS launch than a small window knee? or smaller window TKS?~ come on man~

[ QUOTE ]

NO wolf player throws out SS when they are going
to die, are you serious??

Yes Wolf players will do this as a desperation attack, I figure you being an experienced wolf player would know this feeling by now?


[/ QUOTE ]

why would you use a sucky move as a desperation attack? clearly you have to somehow think "hey this has a chance of hitting~!" otherwise your just throwing away -12 for no reason~ and if you are honestly throwing out desperation attacks rather than using fuzzy guard pressure, and guessing ahead, then that's just a risky game plan, not a risky wolf.



[/ QUOTE ]
and yes once you connect SS, you get like 89 damage standard

List me a 89 point damage off a non-MC (which is what you will get if you hit people out of a dodge, beat d+p or p) that works on everyone. In fact list me a 70 point combo after you use the SS's evasive properties to beat a d+p. Also, it's an established FACT, SS isn't good vs. dodges, toekick stunner is a better choice (the best choice wolf has, but still sucks compare to jeff's). That doesn't mean it won't hit a dodge, but this move shouldn't be your main game vs. this situation.


[/ QUOTE ]

dunno, i like catching SS vs dodge, ~~ so shoot me~ o__o

*shrug*

SS ~ p ~ screwhook non-MC is 70dmg, and as i said plays the spin hit / perfect TR followup.

but i play b+p more often vs long range~

[ QUOTE ]

you can use SS on inaccurate advantage, or just throw out when u feel like interrupting something as a high rewrd gamble.

This would make you a shitty wolf player man. I don't know maybe you are just so good that you make SS hit stuff out of nowhere?? Show me some example clips please?

here's my Pro tip: next time you block a low kick, don't low kick back. saw this on your videos.


[/ QUOTE ]

i mean "pro tip" sarcasitcally, not litterally~

if you saw FT vids, then alot of the time it's pressure because i couldnt inupt well on those sticks~~~

besides, im not kidding, SS is a great gamble tool and you can use it in some funny situations, try it yourself you'll be amazed~ it's better than using it as a desperation move on low life o___o~

along with all the other tools wolf has, it by far gives wolf strength in his attack game.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Since everyone knows this is Shang, why isn't the new account banned yet? Just curious, is it the will of certain individuals or has he been unbanned?

If someone where to banned on a site I modded and came back with a different account just to troll I would think this wouldn't be encouraged. Insted it's trollfeeding time in a thread that has derailed with the average penis measurment. It's a shame, cause Shang can bring about good discussion, but he clearly hasn't stopped acting like a dick which was why he got banned in the first, second, and third place.

/KiwE

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

If warchild isn't banned(yet), then shang's new acct certainly shouldn't be banned(yet).

And just so you know, there are no conspiracy theories involved here, thanks.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

I know you ass is still bleeding from the ownage I gave you last year, but give it a rest man. You are the real troll here. You know nothing about vf, you have nothing productive to offer. All you do is cry for attention. STFU already..

Btw: i'm still waiting for some translation on this thing:

Kiwe Said: A lowlevel technique that everyone should use without ever seeing it used that's not even described but you should use cause you can't think Japanese that's a good option but there are better option and that's why it's not used but you're a n00b if you don't use / ignore it cause you can't think Japanese or use their wakeup games.

?????????????????????????????????????????? anyone want to take a stab at this? Maybe SS will beat it..

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Shang: Blatantly making up stuff

FT, Nishispo/Akihabara, 10 days--

Kage: Tsuwamono
Jeffry: 10th dan
Wolf: 8th dan
Goh: 7th dan

Shang, it amazes me at how readily you lie to flame. I'm not going to speak shit about NYC; most of NYC crew that I have met and played with are cool, and I don't believe they would lie to you about me. Therefore, I must conclude that you are just making stuff up to stir the pot. What you are trying to do is pathetic and unhonorable. What's the word for people like you? Oh yeah...malicious. You are one malicious little man.

As for our relative skills--I'll see you at the next major gathering/tournament OK? We can deathmatch if you wish, and I'm more than happy to put money down on the outcome. Whatever amount you want, I will match and I will bring cash. FT or Evo, up to you.