H2H: Wolf vs. Jeffery

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

KiwE said: Since everyone knows this is Shang, why isn't the new account banned yet? Just curious, is it the will of certain individuals or has he been unbanned?

The problem is that if I ban him, people will accuse me of abusing power. LOL, the irony.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:
I'll see you at the next major gathering/tournament OK?

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Oh snap! You must be a real hero taking the time listing all your rankings! Let me list my shitty rankings to a website of people who mostly never played VF.NET!!
It's great to challenge me to the next tournament asshole, when there are none planned. WOOHOO! you are so so tricky. But guess what, there's a gathering this saturday in Boston, Maddy is in town. Why don't you bring your sorry ass down here? If you beat me more than 51%, I will pay for your hotel, your plane ticket and all your traveling expenses.
AND.. for our relative 'skills'.. it's a bad joke that you, someone who traveled the world playing vf are even considering getting owned by me. but guess what I will still own you, because you are INCOMPETENT in VF. Always was and always will be. So you got the balls Ice-9... bring it this weekend.. Otherwise STFU!

Ice-9, owned in vf3, owned in vf4, owned in vf4evo. Don't forget to bring your 8th dan card so I can laugh my ass off of it.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Shang, yes you are the greatest there ever was. I'm a n00b, I play quest, I'm owned, we're all owned, you're my father, got a gigantic asian cock and all of that + real competition and fag + picture. That's all you'll get out of me until you find some new material. Enjoy your day/life (I really mean that). So back to the matter at hand now;

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ice-9 said:
The problem is that if I ban him, people will accuse me of abusing power. LOL, the irony.

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Ice-9; The thing is, he already is banned. The only reason he feels free to go apeshit is probably cause Myke is/was in London and hasn't been on the site for a while. We'll he's being proved right. Just stop feeding the troll already. The discussion at hand isn't why he's doing this, stop thinking that cause it's not.

Summah; read the above first. Is it common procedure on this site that if you get banned you can make a new account and do whatever you want? In that case I wonder why he hasn't done it before or heck, other banned members have. I don't care if Warchild is banned, I didn't ask for a comparision in actions to justify ones and I don't think they should be compared in the first place due to reasons already stated. Im asking for the logic behind this specific case and why no actions are being taken.

He's already banned. The first thing he did when joining, under a new account name was troll the warchildthread and this one. He's certainly not learned the reason why he was banned in the first place. What am I missing Summah?

/KiwE

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Ice 9 : why don't u use ur mod status n mod the board that you were supposed to. (General + Warchild) There won't be any accusations of abusive mod powers there.

Kiwi: read carefully. I'm only asking for consistency. Point being, who is supposed to be in charged of the General board? Answer: Ice-9

Granted, Jeff might have PM WC and asked him to settle down. But I think in this instance, WC has done worst than anything Shang has ever done. A PM imo, doesn't suffice, considering he repeatedly insulted and degraded us asians + other members on this site.

Note: he admits to being an asshole, finds joy in degrading us and what has been done?

Again, I accept that Ice might have done work in the background. For that, I will concede an error is made on my part and readily apologize to ice 9 should that be true.. Yet based on current understanding of the situation, WC is still unbanned. Realistically, an abuse of mod powers only occurs IF Shang gets banned again and WC isn't banned at all.

And really, what do you know about shang's contribution to his VF scene irl to come out boldly and call him a troll here?

Granted, what happens on the field stays onthe field. And in this instance, you might be entitled to judge Shang based on his mannerism here. FYI,I have never ever heard anyone said a bad thing about shang as an individual though, inside/outside of VF. Truth be told, I won't be surprised at all if both Shang and Ice get along together fine irl. Both are nice hella nice guys. I know Jeff irl. I know Shang from irc/rep/personal endorsement from others.

Rude on this site? Yep
Excessive swearings in this thread? Yep
Trolling on this particular thread? I think not, considering he backed it up with gameplay discussions, albeit personalised manner.

You look at it as Shang merely being noisy. I look at it as Shang contributing with a mic.

I'm not defending Shang here. I don't know the guy well enough to pick a side. What I am merely suggesting is for ppl to stop looking at things from a personal pov and look at the big picture.

To cut short, less ego clashes please. -> This is what shang wants to say but he chooses to dress up his words in more 'complicated' manners.

If you missed his msg, I do not blame you. This is VFDC after all, place full of history that new people like yourself wouldn't be aware of.

And oh Jeff, I know you're very busy with the moving n stuff.

Get to work, dang it.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
KiwE said:
I'm a n00b, I play quest, I'm owned, we're all owned, you're my father
/KiwE

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Why do you bother KiwE? Is it that imporant to you that some asian dude across the ocean, whom you've never met, be banned on an internet website dedicated to a game you openly admit you know nothing if anything at all of? Yet you constantly scream you don't care, you don't want to care, you've stop caring, but at the same time you shadow my steps so closely that it's scary. And you have the balls to tell me to be more original?
Has it really hurt you that bad that despise all the flames that some people actually perfer what I have to say instead scrolling through pages of your worthless bullshit? it must bother you that people enjoy when I call you a fucking idiot? Because that's what you are here my friend.. a fucking idiot among fucking idiots. Why don't you take a break here, go outside and fuck a cow or something?

pro tip: keep those bold letter going there.. it really proves your point..

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

KiwE: yoyoyo my brother.. you gotta earn those eprop yo!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eprop

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
SummAh said:

Kiwi: read carefully. I'm only asking for consistency. Point being, who is supposed to be in charged of the General board? Answer: Ice-9 [...]
Realistically, an abuse of mod powers only occurs IF Shang gets banned again and WC isn't banned at all.[...]
And really, what do you know about shang's contribution to his VF scene irl to come out boldly and call him a troll here?


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Yes I agree that it should be consistent. But now you've painted him into a room cause even if he were to throw out Warlchild it would look as if he did it just to ban Shang (which once again is ridiculus as he is still banned and shouldn't be here in the first place).

I haven't looked at that thread very closely cause I have no interest in US political affairs. But what is the last thing that actually happens there Summah? It's Shang trying to fuel the fire and keep him posting. Not trolling? Not defending him? Get real.
I also now feel that Warchild should get the fuck out but what does those posts by Shang in that thread tell you about him? That it's ok cause he's a good guy in irl? Btw, I don't give a shit about what Shang does irl or his contributions irl when judging him at this site and neither should you or anyone.

/KiwE

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Kiwe you are only person on this thread who hasn't post anything wolf, jeffry or vf related. Do you know anything about Wolf and Jeffry? If not please go troll somewhere else.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

To make things clear, in case there are misunderstandings. I DO NOT have the power to ban, so there is no conspiracy theory like what Summah said.

I don't like the way the thread is turning out to be with all the personal attacks. It's one thing to attack someone's personal preference or play style, but it's something else to attack someone as an individual. If this keeps up then this thread is getting locked. Shang, it would be nice if you can avoid bringing in personal attacks. If you and Ice-9 really can be true to your words, then one of you two take up on each other's offer. Shang is more than capable of backing up his offer, he recently bought a $110 mouse if I recall. VFDC I believe will be more than willing to bear witness to the outcome.

I also don't see the point of people jumping in and yelling for ban in a strategy discussion thread. It would have sufficed to PM a mod with that authority (myke).

Anyways, I have some responses to the actual subject of this thread.

[ QUOTE ]
BK__ said:
my initial point is that "it is a high reward gamble option" and it isnt a small chance gamble either, you can very much uses this in reverse nitaku even if u want to just beat out throw~ it's high reward, initially, yes, you can use this on rising TR, you can ask myke or anybody who was there yesterday, i was really using this move alot, and mostly testing it furthur, infact vids are to come later, i'll see for myself again~


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That is exactly the reason why SS is often used as a desperation attack. Wolf can't win the poke game against most of the characters in a dire situation, this is why wolf players in Japan would throw this out in hopes of those "special property/situations" which you claim to be the reason why SS is so good.

Goh's shrm is actually a very good example of a move that often has unusual outcomes beating mids and consistently beating highs and lp's. I don't see people saying that move is uber, or that Goh is good, and it's only -10 on block. The reason is that those unusual occurences is just that, they are too unreliable to be used as a basis for judgement.

[ QUOTE ]
BK__ said:
i went onto training mode today and practiced SS vs jacky's ff+k, jacky's b,f+k+g, jacky's df+k, jacky's lowP on open stance, and it worked great~! and i'll even post vid when i find my capture device~


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Exactly what do you mean practicing SS vs these moves? If you are beating attacks cause of dmg comparison then it's nothing new. All of those moves except loses to SS by dmg. No jacky player would do evo style in close range either. Please expand what exactly you are doing?

SS is not good against evades is because good players mix up ETEG and variations of ARE. Good players would usually not rely on ETEG against wolf because wolf's strike game is so crap. The best that Wolf can do with strike is TKS or knee counter hit, at 70~71 damage, but both can be beaten reliably by lp at up to -4. The risk of 70 dmg is much better than risking eating any of Wolf's more potent throws. This is why you see wolf always playing defensive against non heavy weights. In the case where SS beats an opponent during the CD cancel, the resulting low float does not allow Wolf to capitalize on the hit.

Anyways, wolf is very limited in the amount of options he has in an actual match. This is a matter of taste, and this thread serves to provide insight into such a matter. I don't think Shang and I are claiming wolf to be weak by any means, just that he is severely lacking in variety compared to most other characters, especially among heavyweights. This situation doesn't seem to change looking at recent VF5 vids. Wolf definitely gets a boost in terms of threat from throws, but he is just that, reliant on precision throws and one time big gamble, not nearly the amount of variety possible with the likes of Jeffry.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
Goh's shrm is actually a very good example of a move that often has unusual outcomes beating mids and consistently beating highs and lp's. I don't see people saying that move is uber, or that Goh is good, and it's only -10 on block. The reason is that those unusual occurences is just that, they are too unreliable to be used as a basis for judgement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well for me it's the lack of damage potential that makes Goh's shoulder ram only a so-so move. Now if it took ~80 points damage on hit...

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Plague is organizing an event/gathering in mid-July smarty pants. How about meeting there and then instead for our deathmatch? This Saturday is kind of last minute don' t you think?!?

We can bet $500. Since you think you can win so easily, that $500 should be like guaranteed money and can cover the cost of your plane flights, meals, etc. It'll be like a free holiday and plenty boasting rights for you. How about it? Let's see you put money where your mouth is. Bring cash.

Also, a lot of American players went to Tokyo when I made the trip up there. Was Adam the only American to make it past 10th dan?

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Fred, if I did what you told me to do, you'd be the boss. In any case, I have a pretty high threshold for banning someone, and Myke makes most of the decisions on that front.

BTW I've thankfully finished moving (my PS2, Evo, and stick have sadly been boxed and stored for the past month) and am now in Seattle on my summer internship.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
BK__ said:
my initial point is that "it is a high reward gamble option" and it isnt a small chance gamble either, you can very much uses this in reverse nitaku even if u want to just beat out throw~ it's high reward, initially, yes, you can use this on rising TR, you can ask myke or anybody who was there yesterday, i was really using this move alot, and mostly testing it furthur, infact vids are to come later, i'll see for myself again~


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That is exactly the reason why SS is often used as a desperation attack. Wolf can't win the poke game against most of the characters in a dire situation, this is why wolf players in Japan would throw this out in hopes of those "special property/situations" which you claim to be the reason why SS is so good.

Goh's shrm is actually a very good example of a move that often has unusual outcomes beating mids and consistently beating highs and lp's. I don't see people saying that move is uber, or that Goh is good, and it's only -10 on block. The reason is that those unusual occurences is just that, they are too unreliable to be used as a basis for judgement.


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if you opponent pokes better than you do, then make them poke~! watch as they get a safe move blocked and then eat a low P cut. or backdash SS / TKS. ~~ when you are on low life and your opponent isnt, i think it's ok to play a tad defensive dont you??

what i said to shang is "if SS is such a bad move why would you use it as a desperation tool" ~ meaning, no you wouldnt risk -12 for nothing, but you would not use it as a primary legitimate stratergy on low life.

and yes, goh's shoulder ram is not unreliable, and is Uber`!, it does the same thing as pai's low backfist, are you telling me pai doesnt own with this move?? only goh gets much greater reward, and better setups~!

[ QUOTE ]
BK__ said:
i went onto training mode today and practiced SS vs jacky's ff+k, jacky's b,f+k+g, jacky's df+k, jacky's lowP on open stance, and it worked great~! and i'll even post vid when i find my capture device~


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what do you mean practicing SS vs these moves? If you are beating attacks cause of dmg comparison then it's nothing new. All of those moves except loses to SS by dmg. No jacky player would do evo style in close range either. Please expand what exactly you are doing?


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im not repeating myself.

---->WATCH SS PROPORTIES FOR YOURSELF <-------

vs jacky's low P
vs jacky's ff+k
vs jacky's b,f+k+g
vs jacky's df+k
vs jacky's beatknuckle
vs wolf's df+k
vs pai's K+g

[ QUOTE ]

SS is not good against evades is because good players mix up ETEG and variations of ARE. Good players would usually not rely on ETEG against wolf because wolf's strike game is so crap. The best that Wolf can do with strike is TKS or knee counter hit, at 70~71 damage, but both can be beaten reliably by lp at up to -4. The risk of 70 dmg is much better than risking eating any of Wolf's more potent throws. This is why you see wolf always playing defensive against non heavy weights. In the case where SS beats an opponent during the CD cancel, the resulting low float does not allow Wolf to capitalize on the hit.


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this is where sucky wolfs dont know how to use backdash attack in the mix .





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Anyways, wolf is very limited in the amount of options he has in an actual match. This is a matter of taste, and this thread serves to provide insight into such a matter. I don't think Shang and I are claiming wolf to be weak by any means, just that he is severely lacking in variety compared to most other characters, especially among heavyweights. This situation doesn't seem to change looking at recent VF5 vids. Wolf definitely gets a boost in terms of threat from throws, but he is just that, reliant on precision throws and one time big gamble, not nearly the amount of variety possible with the likes of Jeffry.

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im not repeating myself with more move information~ as wolf players you should learn how to use your attacks orelse change to jeffry. it's clear that if you rely on bait throws you'll have a bait wolf which does nothing, and if you do nothing you are defensive, and if you are defensive you get owned.

it has nothing to do with wolf's attacks, like any character in VF you learn how to use them. if you dont know how to use your attacks, then nobody can help you.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
BK__ said:
im not repeating myself.

---->WATCH SS PROPORTIES FOR YOURSELF <-------

vs jacky's low P
vs jacky's ff+k
vs jacky's b,f+k+g
vs jacky's df+k
vs jacky's beatknuckle
vs wolf's df+k
vs pai's K+g

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Wow... I can't believe you put those vids up as if they are proof that SS has special properties...... you just discredit yourself to the highest extent...

How are they consistently applicable in game if you reset the situation to the perfect distance, and you time your attack from both ends? How is that a proof to using it in game? In fact, I went into training and found out by doing the same timing/distance reseting, I can consistently beat beatknuckle with Jeffry's +, and surely through the same artificial set up, we can reproduce such result with many other moves such as yoho and dc. With your reasoning for SS, Jeffry gets the upper hand again, because his + has similar special properties and only -10 on block. If anything, at the same timing, Jeffry's Knee would produce the same result and would counter hit due to faster exe, Jeffry gets upper hand again....

That is not call proof, that is digging for excuses. Provide a consistent and realistic example then maybe something constructive can come from it.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

Seriously, I don't see how you can say i'm sucky if I don't opt for back dash SS against pokers. Maybe you just didn't think of it, or you just don't know, but part of the reason why Wolf is very strong in VF5 is because of 0 frame PGS. This is applicable in evo against pokers as well. Against poking, it's much better to backdash PGS than to back dash SS since they can't buffer multi TE's on whiffs. Why would I want to take 71 dmg on normal hit SS when I can take 80-100?

Against people who lp, it's much safer to back dash low throw than to back dash SS. At standing, if the opponent lp's right after blocking wolf's high p, lp whiffs automatically and free low throw. This applies to as well. After wolf , backdash low throw. Why would I consider SS? Harder to time and bigger risk.

 

Deathmatch at Plague's house!

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

Plague is organizing an event/gathering in mid-July smarty pants. How about meeting there and then instead for our deathmatch? This Saturday is kind of last minute don' t you think?!?

We can bet $500. Since you think you can win so easily, that $500 should be like guaranteed money and can cover the cost of your plane flights, meals, etc. It'll be like a free holiday and plenty boasting rights for you. How about it? Let's see you put money where your mouth is. Bring cash.

[/ QUOTE ]


YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!

DO IT! /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
Srider said:

[ QUOTE ]
BK__ said:
im not repeating myself.

---->WATCH SS PROPORTIES FOR YOURSELF <-------

vs jacky's low P
vs jacky's ff+k
vs jacky's b,f+k+g
vs jacky's df+k
vs jacky's beatknuckle
vs wolf's df+k
vs pai's K+g

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow... I can't believe you put those vids up as if they are proof that SS has special properties...... you just discredit yourself to the highest extent...

How are they consistently applicable in game if you reset the situation to the perfect distance, and you time your attack from both ends? How is that a proof to using it in game? In fact, I went into training and found out by doing the same timing/distance reseting, I can consistently beat beatknuckle with Jeffry's +, and surely through the same artificial set up, we can reproduce such result with many other moves such as yoho and dc. With your reasoning for SS, Jeffry gets the upper hand again, because his + has similar special properties and only -10 on block. If anything, at the same timing, Jeffry's Knee would produce the same result and would counter hit due to faster exe, Jeffry gets upper hand again....

That is not call proof, that is digging for excuses. Provide a consistent and realistic example then maybe something constructive can come from it.

[/ QUOTE ]

no it's not

i have said time and time again ~

"it is a high reward gamble option"

it can be used on the rise after you tech roll, i have used it many times to beat down jacky's ff+k (and i have a questmode match)

it can be used in reverse nitaku "even" if it is to "just' guess throws or backdash attack, OR in a situation of freeze, and im pretty sure --- against low P low P.

you watch japanese wolf players right? ~ didnt you notice pretty much every wolf does db+k ~ SS? ~ even back then i had no idea why. but now i do. wolf has plenty of other moves and techniques to mix up with SS, but SS is a great addition to those setups.

jeff's b,ff+p+k is a great move, and everybody knows that. but 30 frames means, yes you can probably use it on TR rise because of it's proporties, but no, you cannot use it on a backdash attack, failed evade, or reverse nitaku throw whiff. SS is played different.

i'll state this again "i said in my very first post in this thread, that jeff has better strikes than wolf" ~~ what you are saying is "wolf has a crappy attack game and you should use PGS whenever you can" and im saying "no"

and no i did not discredit myself, because you asked me to put videos up~ if you mean in the media section, then im not trying to offend, it's just information about SS people probably didnt know.

if you feel i offended you, i dont mind taking it down~

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

[ QUOTE ]
Srider said:

Seriously, I don't see how you can say i'm sucky if I don't opt for back dash SS against pokers. Maybe you just didn't think of it, or you just don't know, but part of the reason why Wolf is very strong in VF5 is because of 0 frame PGS. This is applicable in evo against pokers as well. Against poking, it's much better to backdash PGS than to back dash SS since they can't buffer multi TE's on whiffs. Why would I want to take 71 dmg on normal hit SS when I can take 80-100?

Against people who lp, it's much safer to back dash low throw than to back dash SS. At standing, if the opponent lp's right after blocking wolf's high p, lp whiffs automatically and free low throw. This applies to as well. After wolf , backdash low throw. Why would I consider SS? Harder to time and bigger risk.

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firstly im sorry.

i didnt mean to sound offensive to you, as i didnt mean "your wolf is sucky" im not here to offend personally, honestly.

and now back to the subject.

you cannot use backdash throw against ARE, it's designed to attack straight after attack. ~ backdash attack methods are geared especially towards whiffing low P, and / or tracking evade.

jeff canot use backdash knee, it's short range, he can only use backdash.

df+k+g ~ pounce (low P dont connect)

b+p ~ pounce

and hell stab.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

and just to add, i tried this in training mode:

wolf is in open stance

kage does elbow

wolf blocks elbow

kage does low P

wolf does SS

wolf wins.

~ this is a example of wolf winning in inaccurate advantage, infact it happened to me many times when i was in casino playing vs myke and others. ~ SS is a good tool in general i'd really advise using it more often.

 

Re: Ice-9 is stupid

No offense taken in the first place, but thanks.

Backdash throw is perfect against safe play and poking.
When wolf is in small disadvantage, back dash throw kills players who poke with safe mids. But yeah, I would not back dash throw if I anticipate ARE, but I wouldn't do SS either cause ARE has a good chance of interrupting it if not timed correctly, you will also get a low float which doesn't combo well.