How hard is VF compared to other FGs?

VF and Capcom games play completely differently for 2 main reasons:

1) VF's fastest attacks are 8 or 12 frames. In most other FGs, they're around 3 - and those 3 frames moves can go into a full combo. VF doesn't really get a full combo until -17. This means the bulk of VF is exchanging small hits on minor advantage/disadvantage situations, which makes it play more like a turn-based game.

2) In VF, blocking a move generally gives you the advantage. In most 2D games, blocking gives the attacker the advantage - enhanced by cancels and rekka strings. 2d fighters, the battle is all about getting in and doing what you want to do for a rushdown character. In VF, you're already in, you just have to make smart decisions

I love SF4, MVC3, and VF - I haven't played the other main games enough to form an opinion.

I find VF less intimidating to a new player though. It's easy to see the advantage/disadvantage situations and build a couple of flowcharts. When I try to teach a new player MVC3, I have to show them their moves (punches and kicks), and then show them the game really has nothing to do with these punches and kicks.

 

Virtua Fighter is one of only two fighting games that my non-fighting game playing family and friends will play me in (the other is Soul Calibur, and it's only because of its Create a Soul mode). They won't play me in any of the Tekken and Street Fighter games I have, but when I pull out VF they don't mind diving in, because they feel it's a lot more accessible.

Case in point: I'm finally playing VF5:FS after waiting for everything to download. While messing about with some online matches, I hear my housemate say to her dad "Yeah, I think I want to try this game with him. You should try it out too... it's not like his other fighting games. It's easier to play; it's only got three buttons."

That was from someone who's barely played VF. She's never wanted to take on Street Fighter 3:TS, nor any of the Tekken games I own, and only plays me in Soul Calibur because she's made her own character. But she's ready to dive into VF5:FS, and she's already starting to understand some of the basics simply by watching me play.

If that doesn't speak for how easy it can be to get into VF, I don't know what can.

 

That's a very interesting experience. For me, it's easy, 'cause we don't have a whole heck of a lot of fighting games. The only ones that my roommates are any good at against me is VF. At any rate, Final Showdown is making it easier and easier to introduce newcomers to the fray. Everything looks better and moves more smoothly. The announcer isn't corny-sounding, tthe sound effects are improved, there's the advantage of the R soundtrack... It's a just a really good game, and a really good time for new recruits.

 

I can humbly say, as a complete noob, this game's difficulty to grasp at a beginner level is nowhere near as bad as it's legacy would have you believe. If you have any kind of background at all in 3D fighters then you're good to go. I'm predominantly a Tekken player, and if I may make the comparison, that game is a lot more difficult to get into on a fundamental level.

Where the game gets tougher is obviously when you one to cross the hump from merely being a novice into intermediate play an beyond. A very good understanding of your options both offensively and defensively is necessary to beat a player who knows their stuff.

But then again, can't you say that of any fighting game?

 

Ok, I'm going to say this is a bit of over-exaggeration from this case being much higher in command response. The execution on juggles aren't that much higher than Virtua Fighter, because both systems are linear. From my memory, King and Nina's long throw combinations were the exceptions, but a part of me is hoping that you were referring mostly to this. I would recommend Weaponlord's more non-linear combo system than other fighting games. But again, it's not that hard. People's speed in learning and competence vary.

 

Welcome to VFDC DeathByNines!

Interesting and intelligent VF related comments made too. Well done.

 

We are exactly the same then. I've been playing VF since 1994 but started to really learn the game or fighting games more seriously around that part too. Maybe a bit earlier than you did but still. If you already have a minimal background in fighters and you take time to understand the system of VF, you can basically play all characters while of course having some that you are better with then others.

As of now i i initiated a couple of players to the game and they are already getting the hang of it.

VF isn't hard to learn at all. Its just a really different mind set. Personnaly i find games like KOF XIII A LOT more difficult to be really good at. But then again maybe VF is simply just my kind of game so for me it seems pretty easy to learn.

 

Virtua Fighter is easy to learn, but takes a life time to master. That alone is the sign of a great game. All the greatest games whether it's Chess, Poker or even Street Fighter all have deep layers of strategy and mind games. I love VF because I always feel like I'm learning something new. I play The King of Fighters, Tekken & VF because of all the options you have as a player. Understanding the variables on the fly makes those games a blast for years! Virtua Fighter has by far the most intriguing system of all the fighters to me. The fact that you can react to every situation within seconds make the game so pure. There aren't insane tiers(certain characters always have advantage over other characters), canned animation(Tekken)that give you obvious opportunities to punish your opponent or glitches(MVC2) that can be used to break the game contribute to VF's amazing depth. Skill in spacing & mind games play just as important a part as understanding frames. Hell just having the proficiency to pull off perfect timing on inputs can be deep.

 

I don't know about the lifetime to master stuff...I think it just takes a while to get used to what all the characters and can do how they play. Most of the their move sets and play styles are based on multiple number titles and revisions.

Honestly, this is the the thing I dislike about 3d games, you need to grind a lot more to begin to get comfortable with the games compared to 2d fighters.

 

I've been playing Sarah since VF2 (and VF: remix, remember when her Jackknife kicks would take off 50% off a health bar? I do!) on Saturn, her constant evolution thru games keeps her fresh for me.

Despite playing her for 17 (!) years and 'thinking' I'm good with her I still regularly come up against other Sarah players who use other tools and tactics I never considered. 17 years and I still have lots if things to learn about ONE character (who is also considered to be one of the more simple ones to learn).

If thats not testament to the depth of this game, I don't know what is.

 

This game is very different in terms of difficulty from other fighters. It is physically a cakewalk, but it takes much longer to become proficient, because the depth is so profound.

What makes it so easy is how honest of a fighting game it is. There's absolutely no extra mechanics on top of your character's moveset. That's what the game is- mastering your character's moveset, and mastering using your moveset against other characters and players. No super attacks or extra meters or things to keep track of, just you and your opponent's movesets. These movesets are also very easy to physically work with. Anyone can breeze through any character's moveset in command training. However, each moveset is simply so vast that it takes a ton of time to have your character's moveset down pact in your muscle memory. And then once you know the moveset, you have to know how to use it, against all characters. This just takes time and practice. What's important to note is that you won't be practicing specific attacks and combos until you simply can do them. You will be practicing remembering your moveset and developing your own artistry with the expansiveness of it.

What makes it hard is how mentally challenging the game is. Because the movesets and attacks are always so ready for easy access on your muscle memory (because the commands are so easy) you and your opponent always has full potential over 200 or so commands at any given time. Because of this, it is a mental battle simply remembering all of that moveset and using its depth in the heat of battle. You must think fast, creatively, and free like Bruce Lee Another reason why this is so is simply how fluid the fighting engine is. The fluidity of it reinforces the fact that you really have to have full control over a vast expanse or maybe your entire moveset during the match. And then you have your opponent trying to do the same thing- it creates quite a mentally taxing game. A tip I do is I very quickly scan through my movelist and potential areas of the movelist I've lacked to unlock during the match during a knockdown.

So physically, it is an incredibly easy fighting game. Mentally, well, it is up to the player to decide how mentally engaged they want to be in the fight, but if you really want to take your character to the limit, you need to really have command of your commands, for a diversely used moveset is a powerfully unpredictable and versatile opponent. Again, because the command lists are so large and the game is so fluid, you'll never reach a point where you'll just be able to auto pilot mentally through this game like more physically inclined fighting games. Every time you play the game you must adopt a disciplined and erudite mind that is expansive, fast, adaptive, and even artistic. This is what makes Virtua Fighter such an incredible and cerebral fighting game, and an incredibly "difficult" one.

 

While most of what you say is true--except maybe the part you claim that each character has 200 moves. Yeah, some character may have 200 moves ON PAPER, but that's including all the "different" variations of rising attacks and what not. For the most part the move sets you actually work with are nowhere near 200. I would even venture to say even experts have no more than 10-20 moves on their mind 90% of time.

But let me say this. Most people who find VF "difficult" are nowhere near the level you describe. If you (or someone) have very low win rate right now (let's say, 20-30%) you know what's going to boost the winrate by almost 20% immediately? Just this simple concept:

You attack WHEN it's your turn to attack (such as after blocking or evading), NOT when its's not your turn to attack (such as when you are getting clubbered by low punches and ppps, or after getting your big move blocked.)

Of course the above statement has many exception but it's amazing how many people don't grasp this simple concept, while being destroyed by mashers and spammers. (Or conversely, being destroyed while spazzing out attacks.) The way the ranking matches are now, if you don't even have 50% winrate against kyus and low dans, it's NOT because you don't understand some esoteric crap, but because you don't have just a few amazingly simple concepts right. Given the current online level of competition, it's very possible to reach an intermediate level just based on a mechanical flowchart, not some jedi mind training.

 

Maybe I need to venture outside of Lei-Fei, I guess, sorry. I guess my conceptualization of the game is quite farfetched. Good point you bring up, however.

 

I find this topic interesting and the replies even more so. Every person that I get a chance to play who have no VF experience, find it to be slower and more difficult to play than any other fighter. Now I am not referring to brand new gamers. I am referring to legitimate players who regularly play games such as SF and SC.


I was quite a good Tekken player when I came across VF. This was prior to Evolution and I had heard great things about the skill and depth required of VF. So I made the transition and don't believe that it was easy at all. The game seemed slow and rough. Coming from a fast pace, smasher friendly, environment I was shocked. I simply stuck with it for the purpose of stubbornness initially. It was not until 2-3 days of playing did I discover how great and superior this fighter was.

With that said, I believe VF is much harder to grasp comparatively. Yes it has more simplistic controls, but the over all complexity is far greater than any other. Because of this, it is also one of the best video games I have had the pleasure of playing.

Simply put, VF is to video games as Chess is to board games.

 

Survey after survey, after interview after interview, after casual conversation after casual conversation will indicate that "in general most ppl feel VF is harder than any other fighter game, to play, be successful at, or to master"
anyone that feels to the contrary is in a small minority.

I've been playing 3D fighting games for almost 2 decades now, the fighting game genre is my favorite game genre. if it has been on any version of the playstation of I have played and analyzed it. IMO VF is most difficult 3D arcade fighter to play, be successful at and to master. Now that VF5FS is out I can compare it to the only thing that gives it competition UFC undisputed 3.

Although UFC3 is a Mix Martial Arts combat simulator, and VF5FS is a Arcade Martial Arts emulator I can truly say VF5FS is a masterpiece as far as Arcade Martial Arts emulators go and it has no equal and its extremely deep.

But if you are a mixed martial arts fan, I have to say that UFC undisputed 3 is
to the simulation world of fighting games, what VF is to the Arcade world of fighting games.

For the true martial art gamer Both of these games earn the highest recommendations that any martial arts game can get.

In terms of Hard and deepness. After about 3 years with UFC IMO its as deep and hard to learn as VF. With the simple metric of deepness and hardness being measure by how many options you have if you're on defense and how many options you have if your offense in any given situation within the context of the game.

VF5FS is the best 3D Arcade Martial Arts Emulator on the planet
UFC 3 is the best 3D Mixed Martial Arts Simulator on the planet.

For all you cats out there that like VF because of the sense of realness that it gives you, in its martial arts that although they are not quite real they feel real, I suggest you add UFC undisputed 3 to your collection, UFC3 is just about as close to real MMA as you can get in a video game. And relatively compared to VF is just as hard and just as deep.

 

That's interesting, Masterpo. My twin brother thinks I am weird for playing games like VF, yet I look upon the games he plays as inferior, and find his games to consist of the "dude bro conformist" type. This includes UFC games. I've never really looked into the UFC games and thought they were just more kind of mainstream entertainment, but now I am piqued to look into UFC games.

 

I don't see VF as hard (to enter) at all. It's hard to mash buttons yes, but not hard to start learning. You have to learn big movelists with SC and Tekken too, if you want to go beyond mashing buttons.

I don't understand MvC series at all. It's completely different from back when it was sane in XvSF, and Marvel Superheroes. Nowadays it's like... a bullet hell shooter disguised as a fighting game.

 

Yeah, I never have any idea of what the hell is going on in Marvel 3. It really felt more committed to the idea of the previous Marvel crossover games than an actual continuation of them.

 

VF is not more difficult than Tekken.
It has almost the same depth and amputance of moves.
But in a more tactical way. The reason why everyone
thinks 3d fighting games are more difficult its because
of the extensive movelists. But in assence they are essencial
to the core gameplay and strategy. I didnt like how Namco trimmed SC5's moves. This oversimplicity led to games like SFxT
or characters like Maxi, Lili or Eddie where mashing can lead you to victory.
From a guy who has some experience with the 2D Beat 'em ups
i can assure you that they are not as easy as they seem either.
They are more accessible but very hard to master.
Overall 2D & 3D are different beasts and both demand dedication
and lots of time and practice...

My 2cents

 

Sega trimmed VF's moves too. VF5FS has less moves than VF5 vanilla.