Importance of ura in 4 as compared to 3

Re: Oh yeah?

I'm gonna second Myke's point after clarifying that I was trying to make it clear what some of the situations/examples/definitions of Llanfair's understanding of the "ura system" in VF3tb.

IMO, uramawari is merely the ends in the situation. As Myke mention it was loosely translated to, it is "getting around/behind." Pretty much that's it and pretty much that's usually what you want out of it.

However, the reason I also agree with the "means" approach at which Llanfair and Godeater break down the different ways of achieving uramawari is because it gives you an idea of popular methods of obtaining the uramawari situation (you get behind your opponent).

Body Crossing, specific uses of dodging techniques (including dodging attacks/maneuvers), and "bugs" in the system all contribute to this goal. All have been used quite a bit from a lot of players (at least in the Western VF world, I don't see it much in Japanese tournament play).

Anyways, breaking it down and looking at the means is just a way to understand the VF engine and why certain things work and don't work and pinpointing bugs, etc... Or at least that's how I look at it.

I don't mean to get too caught up in the means, that's just for extensive studying or getting a feel for the design of the engine (intended or unintended). Out of interest and to find out more about these, I look into the various approaches and situations for ura. And given that information, I can figure out in my own way why uramawari is rare in VF4 as opposed to VF3tb.

But in the end, as Myke put it, "...it's all considered as Ura." It is.

-Chanchai

 

Re: Yeah!

There was the 'buggy' ura in VF1, VF2, and there was body crossing as well. Lion was a great character for body crossing in VF2. I remember seeing a clip from one of GodEater's videos of a VF1 Wolf doing a Shoulder Ram on a downed opponent, not crossing, but the opponent rose with their back turned. The buggy Ura existed then, but I'm not sure if it was called Uramawari back then.

The first occurence of the word that I can recall was VF3. Aoi specifically. She had the whacked f+KK after sweeps that would cross and make the opponent rise backwards - in OB it was super irritating.

Either way, I don't agree with Ice-9 in that a distinction of Uras is overcomplicated. To me, they're different things. Dodging attacks really well and getting to your opponent's back was what it was - good dodging. Not Ura. For those of you that ever played Emil late in VF3tb, he was excellent at getting around you while you were rising. He would crouch dash, dodge and press very well and as a result would end up getting around your rising attack. But it wasn't Ura. In GodEater's video, there are two situations which are, imo, absolutely beautiful: the Kage and Lion backturned cartwheels to flip over a forward rolling opponent. It is an exceptional way of getting behind your opponent - but it's not Ura.

If we want to apply the word Ura to all forms of getting to your opponent's back - then, imo, I think that's wrong because then dodging is a form of Ura. And we can all agree that that is not quite right. Speaking to Myke yesterday on IRC he and I agreed that Ura tends to be used as a means to describe the quirky ways of getting to your opponent's back while they're rising, and we further agreed that there is a clear distinction of the buggy Uras and the Uras that are simply clever dodging and/or body crossing.

If I had my way, I would not consider body crossing to be 'Ura'. I would reserve that term for the systematic and mechanically buggy Ura situations that we all are familiar with. But, as GE stated, words are not always used according to their definition. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

cheers,