Jeffry 101 (a guide to FS Jeffry)

Also I just tested threat stance and every single move off of it can be evade cd cancelled.... absolutely disgusting.

 

That fucking sucks then... So you basically have to know threat is gonna hit, or expect an evade or in most cases, 2p...

Sucks, because I like his K+G option off of threat. I've been asking for that ever since I picked up Jeffry. Either give him a circular move or a low (like his old 2K+G) from threat.

 

It might need to be test, and I think as long as the threat stance hit, your opponent is not able to evade CD guard. According to KO, you can evade CD even against Jeffry's K+G which is consider a full circular.

It sounds like you need to gamble(guess) at very first moment since threat stance is not able to hit-check, and then go to another nitaku once you are lucky enough to get the first hit from threat.

 

It is guaranteed on NH. I honestly believe you can hit confirm into threat P if you're paying attention. There's definitely no hit checking P+K to threat P whatsoever.

Jeffry does have alot of highs that should've been mids, but I'm thinking one main goal is to make the opponent freeze so you can get things like his grab from 1P+K, or his 6P~P+G from threat. The latter allows him to do at least 70-80dmg combos no wall.

Something I also find interesting is that Jeffry does have some moves that if used in certain combos the opponent can tech (even at the fastest speed), but still take full dmg.

It's something I'm still trying to mess around with and see if it produces anything truly beneficial. I used this combo for instance:

CH 3P+K, 33P, 2KP

I'm not sure how much dmg it does off the bat (probably a bit less than the 2P, 66PP followup), but I had the opponent tech at the fastest speeds and roll in different directions, and no matter which way they teched, I still managed to get that last hit out. What made it good was that Jeffry was literally up in the opponent's face afterwards, so a good throw opportunity could ensue, or maybe troll stomp. Now I'm trying to see what the opponent can/can't do literally after that combo (as in if I'm at some disadvantage due to recovering, etc).

This might not actually be truly beneficial, but I figured I'd post it up just in case. If he does have other ways to steal extra dmg, I wanna find them out. It might not give Jeffry that edge, but it damn sure puts him closer to winning, ya know?

 

Scratch that-- jf ukemi takes that out, but it does help to know what can be done if the opponent doesn't do that I guess... At the very least you can crouch grab if the opponent does jf ukemi (I think that only works on backwards and in place get ups though)...

I'm still trying to figure out some sort of setups though...

 

Be creative

 

It's also very stance/weight dependent.

+ boil down to this:

Without a wall, /etc.
With a wall, (versus light to mid) + wall combo, and versus heavier mid to Wolf low wall splat.

That's it.

Jeffry has no "set ups," just risky guesses.

This game needs a re-balance.

 

It may be just me, but 1P+K, P flop allows threat P+K+G, PP (re-flop) after a dash. Nice dmg. I love it.

Someone needs to tell AM2 that Jeff needs a fucking hit check for threat and age old 3PP. I want my jeff be a killah, not just a noob nightmare.

 

I agree up to a certain point with that. Setups don't necessarily have to be guaranteed per sé, it gives you more options to do more things to the opponent. Of course, with Jeffry things can get risky really quick, but it doesn't always have to be that way.

I'm always trying to think of options, especially for when unexpected things happen, like you drop a combo, or your opponent TEs and puts you in a situation that seems in his/her favor (I personally like these). I like training the opponent to do multiple things, like to stop sidestepping, duck, and attack on disadv.

It's not as simple as Lau's old school 3K,P to 46P+K bait, since Jeffry doesn't have sabakis, but he does have moves that go under highs like 66P+K, and 1P,P. The latter might be risky in that sense, but if used properly, it won't be.

Please elaborate on the rebalance thing please. I get that from quite a few people and I'd like to hear your perspective on that.

 

My take as a 14+ y jeff player that that vf evo hell made a comeback in fs. Jeffs game is too limited for power play. I feel more at home with Lei and Eileen, they at least have "setups". Sebo might elaborate (though he already has).

 

As a new VF player (only plaed a little VF4 evo before), I would also like to hear more elaboration on why Jeffry needs rebalancing.
Is it that he has a bad low game? Too unsafe?

Also, I've heard that his throw game is weak, and I would really like to understand why. Do his throws not do enough damage? Or is the Oki afterward bad? Since Jeffry has crouch throws, from what I understand of the game's mechanics, he should have a way to beat fuzzy guarding, but as I said, I'm new, and I would really appreciate hearing some of you more experienced guys weighing in on this.

 

Its's wrong to discourage new players, but I guess my take is this:

1: Average 4-throw. Damage is so-so though ring out potential for sec throw is ok. Jeff would love a version of wolfs slower burning hammer which does crazy dmg. (ie splash mountain!!!)

2: Faster mids are linear and no great high h-circs either. Non-hit checkable 3PP. Close mid game is lacking, bar 2 PK. Even normal elbow is donkey.

3: No sabakis or reversals or many high-killers, which would be ok if jeff had good threat, better mid/low game and or throws. Faster 1PK and 9PK as a 2P killer would rock too.

Jeff just feels limited in many match-ups, esp against 12/13f elbow whores which have comparable throw game anyway. One needs phenomenal reads, not just good ones, which is worse as most other chars have at least as good dmg potential anyway.

I love jeffry's concept, ie give a big dmg char requiring very good yomi and hit-checking skills. As such, fs jeff feels now a bit missed opportunity.

 

Jeff has crazy combo damage which wolf hasn't, so it's balanced i think.
I agree with other points though.

 

In FS everyone but Jeffry has something special to them. Jeffry once had a few "special" attacks, but for some stupid reason they were omitted. Here is a comparative look at all the characters (except Dural).

First class, a low that knocks down (first hit), half-circular, or combo starting.
-----
*Akira has +. Great range, safe on block, +7(WTF, nitaku on normal hit, in a game where most lows put you in disadvantage on NH) on normal hit, combo on CH. Also due to animation, can go under mids, a lot of which happen to be Jeffry's.
*Aoi has a few knock down sweeps (discourages stepping, encourages crouching), is half-circular, knocks down, safe on block, can lead to additional damage near a wall. Goes under highs.
*Brad has , unsafe on block, but half-circular, goes under highs, leads to combos. +, while unsafe is a great long range poke that is half-circular, and gives advantage on CH.
*Eileen has a sweep that knocks down, and has +, which goes under highs and leads to a combo.
*El Blaze has , goes under highs, half-circular, +4 on CH. +, while unsafe if guarded low, staggers high guard and on normal hit, potential combo (range) on CH. Also has a Blaze-style hitbox. Also has knockdown sweeps.
*Goh has +, while unsafe on block, ducks under highs, half-circular, hit throw on counter. has good range, +4 on counter, negative hits on normal hit, but with sabaki/the elusive +, that isn't a bad position to be in. (underrated), and unsafe on block, is half-circular, gives +3 on CH. _+ gives advantage on even normal hit, and can cover the direction you wish.
*Jacky has +, a quick sweep, goes under highs, knocks down evaders, wall splat combos possible.
*Jean has , ducks under highs, advantage on CH, negative frames on normal hit (safe on block), but can be a good means of setting up combo starting parries. +, half-circular, the RANGE, neg on hit (parries), + on CH. Two sweeps, both can cause wall splats.
*Jeffry... uh, goes under highs, and can start a combo on the second hit (with a wall), but is really slow, and starts as a s.L, and in general leads to less damage. Delay Jump is half circ, knock down, but with the necessary jump, it is the slowest low. The current + is only decent versus someone who just does fuzzy. Due to speed, and range, you will be evaded or attacked out of it more often than anything. + does good damage, but requires you get a slow high punch attack to get blocked first. He had +, which was half-circular, chargeable to start a combo or give + on block. He once had +, also half-circular, knocked down on at least CH. At least getting + back would be a somewhat decent trade off, doesn't even need to knock down, just give it evasive properties and frames on at least CH.
*Kage... lol. Combo starters, circular knock-downs, eeek!
*Lau has +, half circular, goes under shit, knocks down, decent range. Also the speed and awesomeness of should be noted. That is how a special low attack should be.
*Lei has knock down sweeps everywhere, a very fast half-circular +, and a combo starting +.
*Lion, lol. Just like Kage, circular knockdowns, and combo starting potential. Also throw in a Half-circular low that puts the opponent in side-turned.
*Pai has +, +, and sweeps.
*Sarah has sweeps, and +, good range, decent combo damage afterwards.
*Shun has knock down sweeps, + (gets good at 8dp), fast knock down lows in his stances. Also at 7dp, leads to knock down on CH, yeah it’s special low, but the speed and range make it a really good attack.
*Taka has half circular lows, + (can start a combo if cause wall hit), + (starts low wall splat), _+ leads to free combo. give positive frames on CH.
*Vanessa in DS has a sweep (doesn't knock down), but has + (crazy safe on block), combo on counter, + on normal hit (s.L however), combos in closed stance vs. lighter characters do 70ish. + into wall hit can lead to lazy stance + for big damage, also half circular, and gives + on even normal hit. OS, works like Jean's. + is half-circular, leads to very damaging 3 way guess.
*Wolf, lacking, but should not be discounted. Goes under highs, staggers high block and on hit, knock down on counter.

Dealing with lows and getting good damage in the process.
*Akira has ++, and it sabakis low punch attacks and high punch attacks while you’re at it (i.e. two of the most used/useful attacks in the game), leading to a nice combo, and an overpowered combo with a wall (even on Taka). Jump has an amazing hitbox. I don’t think I’ve seen it whiff against a low before, and it leads to decent combos. Reversals are a (risky) possibility.
*Aoi, jumps over lows, leading to decent combos. is an amazing attack (also beats ), leads to hit throw off successful sabaki, leads to combo on CH. Is now safe on block from a free throw. Reversals are a (risky) possibility.
*Brad’s + leads to a free for decent damage. Also ducking + seems to beat out some lows for a combo.
*Eileen + is a knee class launcher with built in airborne frames. Not a too common of a property. A good read on +/++ can lead to a good mix up upon a opponent recovering from a whiff.
*El Blaze +, while it can whiff, it leads to combos, and unlike a lot of +s, it doesn’t get inashi’d or reversed (unless you got Aoi). Others.
*Goh, +. ++ leads to CRAZY frames after successful sabaki.
*Jacky, lurlz.
*Jean, ++ into combo.
*Jeffry, with proper spacing (depending on frames), doing can go over lows for a small amount of damage. Also is very fast and can lead to additional damage (with a wall, sigh). Whiffs a lot. A LOT. Outside of dealing with just , just block and use Jeffry’s lackluster (until +17) punish game. In VF5R he had +, it lead to combos. Why they took it away... uh, why did they take it away?
*Kage, lots. From BT, you got a combo starting low (that evades highs) or a mid that goes over lows that starts combos (and a catch throw that deals with step). + give +1 on block. It is slow, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing (i.e. can hit opponents after they attempt to counter attack after evading).
*Lau, a number of them. + leads to combos (though it does whiff depending on the low you’re attacking). is an awesome attack. + can avoid short range lows (or any short ranged attack) and leads to a simple combo.
*Lei has a number of them, /+ are quick and lead to additional damage.
*Lion has a few, is a great multi-purpose attack (a good mid half-circular knockdown).
*Pai has a few. can sometimes(?) beat and even elbows. has really quick airborne frames. +/Bokutai + leads to combos.
*Sarah has a number, but is really good (depending on frames), but also has a big active frame window, leads to good combos.
*Shun has a lot, like almost at least one per-stance.
*Taka’s used to have armor against , but luckily he lost that because fuck Taka. Also, while Jump can lead to combo, at least it is slow, but it has a really good hit box. However Taka’s jump is really good because the opponent won’t be able to get too much damage off of a airborne Taka, Taka’s low throw + is scary as a punish versus low whiffs.
*Vanessa, while in DS, deals with most lows. Lazy stance + sabakis low attacks and leads to free + combos. OS has , + blah blah. Good stuff.
*Wolf’s has similar properties to Jeffry’s (whiffing included), but +:G/+ are better for this anyway.

Throws are important in this game. While Jeffry’s throw game took an intial hit in VF5R (losing +) he still had a high(er) damage throw in addition to decent ring control, and in Vanilla, Threat + was a really good catch throw. Jeffry’s throws are good, some of the better ones in the game (with a wall). Without a wall, even a slight damage boost (or improved oki options) would make up for Jeffry other holes in his game.
*Akira’s throws are excellent. +/+ can start a very scary 50-50 guessing game, + does 60 damage. + has excellent oki (jump over, opponent whiffs rising kick, punich with BT +/SPoD lol). + leads to a damaging combo or an overpowered one near a wall. Also a rear-ringout threat.
*Aoi has decent damage and oki (reverse a rising circular kick=free combo), 50-50(?) game on the throw combo (which can do quite a bit of damage). Ring control and wall combo off of + is crazy (rear ringout threat with both and ). Don’t forget BT catch throw, it’s pretty good.
*Brad’s throws are okay, generally break to defeat his damage (for simplification, same applies for Jean, Lau, Lei, Sarah, Shun from 6dp to 9dp, Taka mirror). Ducking’s catch throw is really good. Potential for wall combo, ring position change, all do good damage.
*Eileen’s throws are okay with really good ring positioning off of +. + is a strong stance if properly hitchecked, and the catch throw as an option is great.
*El Blaze’s throws are pretty good. Wall combo after +, good damage after 270+, ring positioning and decent damage with . High and low catch throw from RD, + from neutral stance and BT, and a long distance catch throw from wall jump.
*Goh has good throw damage, Catch throw into tsukami (stronger now), catch throw from BT.
*Jacky has good throws. 60 and ring position change for , 50 for , more with a wall (75 with ).
*Jean’s throws are okay. See Brad
*Jeffry’s throws are okay without a ringout/wall threat, + give really good oki, HCF/B give decent damage, his highest damage is 65 (in 221 health in FS, Vanilla 70 vs. 201). Near (super close), + can lead to 100 damage combo (or ringout over short wall) to Jeffry’s left, right and front. With a wall to the opponent’s back, throws do 70 damage. Crouch throws are excellent tools, and his ground throw game can be really scary near a wall or ring-edge. His throw game is good, but isn’t scary at all without a wall, and near a wall requires really good positioning and then the opponent just needs to break , with less than perfect positioning, throw combo will completely fail, and they could even tech without any damage. Also, where other characters get 50 damage off their +s, Jeffry’s + is only 40 and has shit recovery. Also, catch throws aren’t considered enough, but the loss of a good catch throw from a (better) threat stance, and the only access to a catch throw is if he can get his + blocked. Considering the other holes in his gameplay, not having a fear inducing throw game is not too good of a combo.
*Kage’s throw game is good, good catch throws. 60 damage and -2 DP on , combo off of and long range ringout threat.
*Lau, see Brad.
*Lei, see Brad.
*Lion, 60 in both directions, can lead to a combo, + is terrifying with a wall to the opponent’s back. A catch throw that leads to a 50-50 mindgame.
*Pai’s throws are good. Catch throw from new stance.
*Sarah, see Brad, though + does 55. Catch throws from Step stance.
*Shun’s throws are meh damage wise until 6DP, HCF+>>combo. But 2DP off neutral, 4 off of +, and 6(?!?) off wall +, etc. At 10dp, does 66 damage and adds 4DP. Catch throws from ++, ++, BT, (hold). Throw damage increases based on how many DP Shun has.
*Taka has the best throw game. Sega thought that pre Ver.A HCF+ didn’t do enough damage so it got an increase to 85. wtf? HCB+ is great, low throws great, and a good/fast catch throw.
*Vanessa in DS has good damage, and has decent low throws. Also lazy stance + does a lot of damage. OS isn’t as good, but better than most of the cast anyway. There is a catch throw and a means of going into a takedown from HCB+ for additional damage.
*Wolf has PGS, the overrated Burning hammer, and a 9 frame throw in the direction. does 75 damage. Low throws do good damage. Good ground throw 50-50 game near a wall or ring-edge. Wolf’s catch throws are great, whether from DM or from standing.

 

Punishing in VF has been becoming more and more important since Vanilla. Jeffry’s punish game is still lacking until he gets a free attempt. Will also include standard launchers in the discussion here.
*Akira has until -14~-15 range, all characters but Lei-Fei/Taka have this option. Next leads to 60+ damage, still has the miraculous property of being +1 on block. for lows, 37 damage plus knock down. Leads to low wall splat, for a total of 60 damage, super close to wall leads to high wall splat and more damaging combos. These are a good enough until +17, where knee comes in and it does good damage. For some reason it is only -13 on block.
*Aoi has knockdown at -13 with +, kinda lackluster damage-wise, can add + near a wall for additional damage. But it has good range and is a really good (underrated) whiff punisher and with perfect range from a wall, can combo with +, but is very situational. At +14, gives +3, and allows for a mind-game (half-circ mid that can be delayed and canceled... very underrated). +15 vs. lows, + does 38 damage, potential additional damage near a wall, cancel/BT mind games from the string. for +16, decent damage, ring positioning change. At plus +18 +/. Okay combos, at least -13 on block.
*Brad’s at +14~+15 + has good combos, against lows additional damage near a wall (like all other punishers). + at +16. + at +17, good damage.
*Eileen　 does 43 damage, is 13 frames and can lead to more damage near a wall (axis is weird, but needs to be to Eileen’s back). Damage-wise, is a really good as a 13 frame knockdown punisher. Not too acquainted with other thingies.
*El Blaze’s +, while really hard to do, is a really good +15 attack. vs. lows (wall stuff). + is a great punisher as well.
*Goh has , good combos. Beyond this, Goh’s punish game isn’t all that good, like a lack of 17 frame launcher (use +) but at least he has many other strengths.
*Jacky’s /+ (14 frames), 53 damage with knockdown (additional with wall), or a charging mid-mind-game. + if mistimed is super unsafe, over 60 damage versus -15 is really good, more with a wall.
*Jean options are great, charge/cancel with , charge, etc. + is 13 frame knockdown, decent damage. does more damage at 14 frames, additional damage with a wall. versus lows at +15 (?).
*Jeffry’s has and . Without a wall, these do little damage, with a wall, add after (with perfect range + combos, but very situational). can lead to low wall splat with a wall to Jeffry’s stomach. +16, versus lows, you can do /++ (the only time you can be sure that both hits will combo), highs / +17 you got , and it leads to really good damage. In FT he had +, a 13 frame knock down attack would be nice, but punishing has never been Jeffry’s strong point.
*Kage punishment isn’t so good, but knocks down at 13, and into stance mix ups can be pretty good.
*Lau , for -15. + is an amazing high-whiff punisher.
*Lei + into stance, in KOKO at +15, + at +16, at +17.
*Lion, (potential wall) at +13, other stuff.
*Pai, into boku or (can delay the second hit for more frames if it counters), versus highs at +14, versus low recovery, or can do ws >wall hit.At +17 + works, not impressive damage, but it’s decent.
*Sarah’s is quick and goes into Flamingo, + do good damage, has forward slide options after the first two hits or Flamingo after canceling the . for knock down versus low, for frames into Flamingo. + at +16, at +17.
*Shun, at 5(?)dp, goes into BT and you now have access to a catch throw (as well as the fast + and ). does a little more damage than , and with 2, 4, and 6 drinks you can threaten counter attack attempts with +, or cancel to 2DP and/or use BT“Come At Me Broâ€-stance. + is a 15 a flop counter (really good). /++ versus lows. At +16 with 6DP (better at 8) Chouwan. With limited drinks at +18 .
*Taka has / (stance transitions) from +12, versus lows at +14~+15 (more with wall), or versus highs at +14. + at +15, + at +16, + at +17.
*Vanessa in DS is lackluster. at +12~15, ws versus lows from +13~+15. Can use + at +14, does less damage than , but give better frames on hit. or + (CH fishing) at +16, + versus +17 on standing (rare) and + against crouch (low damage). OS has , the can be cancelled into takedown (very underutilized), + at +14 on standing, on crouch. at +17.
*Wolf has at +15. + at +16, into big damage and potentially great OKI set ups. + at +18, + at +20~.

Good “elbows,†there are a lot of them in FS, there are also a lot of new really fast pokes that defy old VF logic along with old quick pokes that have been around forever. Jeffry doesn’t have one (so do some other characters, but they usually have many things to make up for this), but has a few that can work as one. Let’s take a look at these quick and extremely useful attacks!
*Akira has , the best elbow in the game, 13 frames, good frames on hit/CH, great range for the speed. is unnecessary, 14 to come out, negative on hit, little advantage on CH (like Jeffry!). an 15 frame (most likely 16 due to input) elbow that leads to combos (overpowered near a wall), knocks down on normal hit, safe on block. 14 frame low attack in the form of , BT + is insanely fast (regardless of frames on block).
*Aoi (can cancel the second hit), not bad. poor range, but double limbed, ducks highs at disadvantage, a great attack. + 15 frame knocks down. 14 frame low with , BT is the fastest low in the game.
*Brad’s has a cool hit-check into knock down, or can go into his strong ducking/slipping games. + is a 12 frame CH combo starter... uh whut?!
*Eileen’s good frames on .
*El Blaze’s is okay. string is tricky.
*Goh has good frames. + is a 13 frame knockdown combo starter... wut again?
*Jacky’s elbow has good range and mixups on hit. Shit on block, but doing + will make opponents hesitant.
*Jean hitcheck for knockdown, nice delayable and stuff.
*Jeffry’s is good, but impossible to hitcheck, poopy frames on hit and only +5 on CH. Also has a high animation, and in closed stance some things that can go under it. can be hit checked (at least it is a true mid now) and can start a wall splat very close to a wall. If he could still combo after CH, it would be a nice help. + hard to hit check, but is a good means a going into threat if not blocked. + is the best of the bunch frame-wise. A little short on the range, but still good. Would like counter hit frames of + on .
*Kage has good frames on hit/CH, can go into either of his great stances.

This is getting boring. Summary later(?), but here is a quick one. Jeffry has holes. Other characters have some issues (a few a next to none), but have things that make up for these weaknesses elsewhere in their game.

 

Thanks, a really cool infopack altogether, your notes help players a shitload. This stuff should be sticky as glue.

Based on really useful moves and overall frames Jeff seems depressing. In actual usage not too shabby yet, but I fear a lot of my cool online experience so far is based on people not familiar with his shit. I really should punish my whore-self in dojo mode now rigorously.

Notwhithstanding the frame shit and core close chess, I kinda enjoy Jeff's mid game with 2K, 3K and spacing games for his other moves. I really want to learn to use 46 P+K, that move seems designed to piss (back) evaders. Overall it seems to be a idea of AM2 that opponents should react to Jeff's many moves by evading and stance changers stuff like 4K to keep them guessing. With no clear low killers or hit-checkables now the menace just is not felt.

I dunno, perhaps I'm just too postmodern and Jeff remains in ancient greece. People never complain getting floored by Jeffry, but fill the inbox when Goh does the same. I guess hit-checking is "spammage" and genuine reads are stuff of respect?

 

Jeff's high-killer is 1P. It ducks under highs on the first frame. Have to hit-check it though.

His low killer is 9K.

Yes, I think Jeff would benefit from rev.B improvements, but I don't think he needs huge massive changes

buff damage on backbreaker to make it Splash damage (5 pt buff, also apply to his wall grabs)
Make 1st hit of 1PP a true low
K+G from threat maybe make that a full circular low, and make P+K sabaki special lows
speed up 1P+K a bit
Improve 3PP to +12 vs Taka.

 

Nice !

I would also like some other stuffs like :

More damage on p+g from threat>k.
Same with p+g from p+k>p (it should be more rewarding as it's really hard to set up)
1p+k : a litlle faster AND semi circular (shouldn't hurt).

 

Thanks for the incredibly detailed reply, Sebo!

 

Uh... did you not see the problems?

is his anti low. It also whiffs a lot. His other anti-low is , but you need to be psychic due to the speed, but it at least leads a 50-50 low throw guessing game... but other characters can start combos after crushing a low attack.

is a good attack, but other characters have true lows that duck highs and start combos, sometimes they're half-circular. Sometimes they are all of them (and full circular) and they cause wall splats...

5 damage buff to would be okay, personally I think buffing by 5 (so it would be like Goh), but the trade off of nerfing + (I say give him something different, with 50 damage and better oki).

being low-low... that sounds like a change Sega would never make. They only give double lows to non-black people. Much like giving him a sabaki...

This is what should be changed (all would be awesome, a few would be great):

*Give back + or give a similar hit box to Akira's (even without the ability to combo afterwards)

*Bring back + (which is a modest request), or give him an attack similar to his old + (make it the same input, move current + to +)

*Make + into +... it doesn't conflict with anything, also either make a frame or two faster, increase the range, or make give it +3 or more on block. Akira's has better range, is better on block, and is a frame faster.

*Either bring back old threat (Vanilla or even R's, but keep + or bring back his catch throw) or make the current one hit checkable or change the animation (most other better stances have either a vanishing hitbox, mobility, or built in defensive techniques, or have simpler options that cover all bases) -or- more radical: remove threat stance. Either make threat into ++/+, or give Jeffry a catch-throw (that works on BT opponents to this time{even Taka has this, because he has everything})

*Either make his better (even if that means getting rid of ) or actually make hit-checkable (like Sarah's ). Or a super modest proposal, give it a slightly better hitbox.

*Make previously mentioned throw game changes, even at the cost of nerfing +. Get rid of combo throw, give more variety (+, +, +, etc.) with more options on oki.

*If + comes back (lol, fuck you sega), give CH //versus crouch >Wall combos back.

*Either remove evade / (I remember sega and others saying that evaded is a high risk/high reward) or bring back BOTTLE CUT (Evo/FT style), because, why the fuck not?

*Fix ground throws in combos. + shouldn't do more damage than + when near a wall, it should be the other way around (+ giving a mix up)... and yes this is a nerf to Jeffry's damage.

*Either give a 13 frame knockdown punisher, or a 14-15 combo starting punisher, or a quick double-limbed attack within 13-16 frames.

*Either make /Threat hitcheckable/delayable or remove those properties from Taka's +/Jacky's SS +/etc.

*Make / +1 or 0 on hit or a mid-mid.

*Or ignore the above, but nerf everyone. Get rid of reliable jumping attacks, no more low starting combos (or low circulars without jumping). Removal of evasive hit boxes, weaken throws, make all strings hard to hitcheck, etc.

Personally I would like to just see a better (+ would be asking too much from stingy sega), better , + and the low damaging but available two-hit combos, and bottle cut or catch throw from neutral. It isn't too much to ask. I mean, give us something like a Akira's + or ++, or the delay-ability off of a three hit mid string (like Jacky's +), blah blah. Don't give everyone so much while taking away and then just ignoring Jeffry.