Judo Vs Aikido

Re: What about ninjas? *DELETED*

Post deleted by Vith_Dos

 

Re: What about ninjas?

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vanity said:

Thirdly, the early UFC's allowed groin strikes and neck strikes. This had essentially nil result on the match results.

Again, eye gouges are ridiculously difficult to train/pull off. I mean honestly, the only way I can think of someone being
able to pull off an eye gouge against a resisting opponent is in the mount position, and if you've mounted the guy, you've already performed enough legal technique to get there.

Finally, the UFC is hand to hand combat.

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Quote from UFC Website:

Fouls
1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.


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The ULTIMATE dont do that in FIGHTING pansy CHAMPIONSHIP. Obviously this "style" of attacking is a heldback form of combat that is FAR from Ultimate. Tons of real world appliable shit you cannot do. Makes sense that only particular types of fighting styles can do well in. Well I guess thats why on the website it list only 7 styles.

ps: I understand the people don't want anyone to die, but i grow tired of hearing this touted as the craziest shit in the world. This is not the venue for showing off true strength in the sense that it is limited in its actions. Lets bring back some crazy old world roman colliseum fights. Then we'd see some good fights.

edit: Oh yeah and Check out the Second Paragraph

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Just as some background, Ultimate Fighting actually began televising events in 1993, when they were under old (read: crappy) management. The fledging sport at that time, truly, had NO RULES. I believe the only posted rule from the first UFC was “No Biting.†(The rules actually evolved later after an early match between Kenpo expert Keith “BallPuncher†Hackney and Josando “expert†Jo San in UFC 3 or 4, wherein Hackney had his opponent on the ground, and repeatedly punched San in the groin until San was forced to tapâ€â€That’s the pure definition of brutality

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Re: What about ninjas?

So basically returning to original topic. Aikido is basically using your opponents momentum against them to instantly incapacitate an opponent. If you take that "instantly incapcitate" part out and by the "rules" wait for a tapout. Of course Aikido is the suck. Which brings me to another point.

Lets look at UFC rules
http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.Rules
A lot of it bans a lot of striking moves, which I always led to believe that MMA rules cater to submission users. If you take out the Strikers most lethal moves, then you just end up trying to wear out the opponents stamina. If a striker knocks someone down, they dont get rewarded for the easy win with a shot to the head. If a submission user back mounts and something goes awry, the ref reallows the backmount to be reset ?!?!!? WTF. Yes MMA is a sport and nothing more than that.

if all else fails www.askaninja.com

 

Re: What about ninjas?

Out of curiosity what would you guys consdier to be a strikers most lethal moves?
Elbows , flying knees are allowed they seem pretty lethal to me /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Thing is if someone wants to do no hold barred fighting they can if they want, there is underground stuff,
MMA events extend the career of the participants with the rules, in order to see a person's fighting skill over a career. Imagine if someone's vf prowess was measured on 1 fight only...

 

Re: What about ninjas?

Like i said again, MMA is just a sport nothing more. People just try to make it more than what it is -LIKE THE SUPREME EXAMPLE OF TRUE MARTIAL ARTS FIGHTING!!

which of course if you've been around vfdc long enough, you get sick of hearing it over and over and over and over and over . . .

 

Re: What about ninjas?

Nil effect (groin shots)...well, almost all except Joe Son, I hear his nuts still have not recovered from being Hackneyed

 

Re: What about ninjas?

Well considering joe son had 3 more MMA fights after that one, I don't think he was that bad off. Plus, he was submitted by a choke ffs.

Secondly, I'd say the most devastating pratical strikes that are not allowed in the UFC are stomps, soccer kicks to the face, and headbutts. Stomps and soccer kicks are allowed in PRIDE and really don't play that much of a role in deciding matches.

Headbutts on the other hand have been outlawed in pretty much all organizations, and are the only strike I can think of that has changed the MMA game by slightly reducing the effects of GnP. But when we consider the #1 fighter in the world is a GnP'er, it's not so bad.

As for those deadly elbow spikes, they're nice, but they aren't, in the words of bullshido.com, "teh anti-grapple"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7076063312262742465&q=royce+kung+fu&pl=true

As shown in this video posted a bajillion times, elbow spikes are nearly worthless in stopping a takedown, but are good when it comes to GnP. Too bad without grappling knowledge you won't be able to get to that point.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

Have you seen Joe Son's record? He got his ass kicked in all of those matches, one of them tapping out before anything happened. Looks like the strength of the lord was not enough to save him.

Soccer kicks not decisive? Tell that to Wanderlei (who had a nice laugh after stomping Yuki Kondo into a shit stain), Crocop (whose favorite ground technique is to hold your head down while he attempts to get a spot on the Croatian soccer team), Jens Pulver (who won his last match with a shin kick to a guys head while he was down), Baroni (who won his first match in pride by stomping on the guys head), The kickboxer (not savate) guy in the 1st ufc who, while gassed, won by stomping on the guys head)...I could go on...

California and the NSAC both have outlawed stomps/soccer kicks. Elbow spikes are very devistating - have the most risk of taking out an eye and/or fracturing the skull. I personally think elbows in MMA are wack cause they usuall lead to bleeding but not a K.O.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

Wanderlei had already downed Kondo with punches. That was a mismatch to begin with, same with Pulver, those matches were already over.

Crocop has never KO'ed anyone with a soccer kick. He only soccer kicks people who have already taken a ridiculous amount of damage standing and there's nothing better to do to get the ref to stop the fight (ie: versus coleman).

and, meh, it's bad to cite ufc 1 stuff for fight enders, because most of those guys had 0 technique to begin with.

elbow spikes taking out an eye? how the hell do you do that?

and again, i'm aware joe son sports an 0-4 record, but people constantly cite his fight with hackney as a "brutal display of the early ufc's", when in reality they shook hands afterwards with a smile on joe son's face, and joe son obviously did not "get enough" MMA from that fight, so he went on for more.

Again, yes we do see a lot of fights in pride end with soccer kicks. But that's because the guy's turtling from having taken a beaten standing, and the other guy has nothing better to do.

also, the only two fights i know that had elbow spikes utilized were also big mismatches. Pardoel vs Weit, he could have shifted to side mount and applied a kimura (as he did with his first opponent that night), and big daddy vs paul herrera where he already had him in a crucifix position, where he could have applied a neck crank or armbar instead.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

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vanity said:

Wanderlei had already downed Kondo with punches. That was a mismatch to begin with, same with Pulver, those matches were already over.

Crocop has never KO'ed anyone with a soccer kick. He only soccer kicks people who have already taken a ridiculous amount of damage standing and there's nothing better to do to get the ref to stop the fight (ie: versus coleman).

and, meh, it's bad to cite ufc 1 stuff for fight enders, because most of those guys had 0 technique to begin with.

elbow spikes taking out an eye? how the hell do you do that?

and again, i'm aware joe son sports an 0-4 record, but people constantly cite his fight with hackney as a "brutal display of the early ufc's", when in reality they shook hands afterwards with a smile on joe son's face, and joe son obviously did not "get enough" MMA from that fight, so he went on for more.

Again, yes we do see a lot of fights in pride end with soccer kicks. But that's because the guy's turtling from having taken a beaten standing, and the other guy has nothing better to do.

also, the only two fights i know that had elbow spikes utilized were also big mismatches. Pardoel vs Weit, he could have shifted to side mount and applied a kimura (as he did with his first opponent that night), and big daddy vs paul herrera where he already had him in a crucifix position, where he could have applied a neck crank or armbar instead.

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By the very nature of them, scoccer kicks are fight enders (and btw, pride is already talking about removing them). What big daddy did was not really spike with the elbow, but if you watch, it was more the side of the elbow.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

speaking of big daddy I heard earlier in his career he once squeezed someone's nuts to a pulp in a valetudo match? lol

 

Re: What about ninjas?

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_optimus_ said:

speaking of big daddy I heard earlier in his career he once squeezed someone's nuts to a pulp in a valetudo match? lol

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Ouch......

 

Re: What about ninjas?

I think eye gauging is pretty damn deadly. A good knee in the face would be pretty good to stop a take down as well. Maybe a good elbow in the back of the neck.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

how exactly do you spike someone on their neck when they shoot in for a takedown. If they're that underneath you, they're going to pop you up and slam you. The only practical defense is to sprawl.

As for knees stopping takedowns, you're damn right they work at stopping the shot. But once the gap has been closed, and the person has attempted to lift their knee, they've just asked to be slammed.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

you make it sound like its impossible
which leads me to believe your a shoot and submit fanboy with loss of rationale and nothing we say will get into your head.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

I'm just saying I can't visualize the position where you can come and spike the perfect elbow on the back of someone's head when they're going in for a shot.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

I do mean you sprawl first.... Obviously the first thing you want to do is to prevent youself from being taken down. Even if you are taken down, go for the nuts. In real life, it would also be very useful to carry a knife for a quick stab to the sides when taken down.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

So you sprawl... and you elbow spike someone... while you're standing on your toes at a 30 degree angle... and you have one of your hands on their ankle or ass to prevent them from going any further. BULLSHIT.

Also, how the hell do you go for the nuts when someone's on top of you, i've never understood that.

And of course things change when guns and knives are involved. But I'm telling you, if any empty handed martial art claims to be the anti-knife anti-gun, well, at least i hope we can agree they're full of shit.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

Find someone for you to sit on top of, then ask them to grab your nuts. You can see how it's done that way.

 

Re: What about ninjas?

lol? If I am full mounted on them, how are they going to grab my nuts before I bust in their face? If you're mounted, and someone's raining down punches, the last thing you would think of is to grab the other dude's balls, which is a good thing, because it's the dumbest thing you can do -- because it isn't going to work.