Kage's Version C Command List Errata

The Circular Kick, and the Heavy Circular Kick, and the Back Thrust are all listed as having a CR reversal level. Based on my testing, I believe these are all HK instead.

Corrected.
For some reason, this correction doesn't show up when I access the list.

Two more corrections for reversal levels:
1. [Jumonji Stance]d+K Frontal Sweep should be LK, not SW.
2. [Jumonji Stance]PKK Body Blow, Toe Kick, Revolution Kick can be reversed; it should be shown as MK.

 

that you, shroomy?

 

Careful, bubbah...

<font color=yellow>Jason Cha made the same mistake and got his virtual hand slapped... Definitely not imashroom. Deniz is working with Mike on getting the errata on the movelists. Hang tight and we'll all see a much tighter and accurate site.</font color=yellow>
/versus/images/icons/wink.gif

 

Re: Careful, bubbah...

1. Due to a repetitive lack of success on my part, I don't think the following three Back Turned Attacks can be reversed, despite what the list says: ub+K Backflip Kick; uf+K Backflip Kick; P+GP Overhead Chop. I believe I have now checked all of Kage's moves for their hit and reversal levels, and damage, and have noted any discrepancies with regards to these specific columns.
2. The Auto High Punch Inashi and the P+G Flipping Takedown from Jumonji Stance should have notes indicating they cause Kage to exit the Jumonji Stance.
3. FWIW, my post on the Sabaki effects of Kage's b+K contains a minor typo. Sarah's P+K was not parried by Kage's b+K; it was the other way around (post-midnight misreading of notes). I have since observed the b+k working its Sabaki magic on a few more MK level attacks though: Lion's ff+K; ff+KK; and u+K. Not that it's important...

 

Re: More corrections

Interesting. This will prove helpful when I get around to sorting out the different classes of mid-kicks.

Heh, I thought I would be the only one interested. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif I also got it to work on Lion's Hopkick. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif I have not succeeded so far vs Lion's df+K or b+PPK. I am going to fool around tonight with his f+P+KK and f+K+G, and with Kage's MK attacks to see how the b+K works with them, and will probably do this systematically as I work through the various characters' lists. With regards to this testing: my failure with Lion's b+PPK, and Sarah's u|d+P+K+G and [FS]u|d+P+K attacks, could simply be an issue of setting up the right timing when conducting an experiment; ie., my failure could be because of the fast nature of these attacks and the complexity of the respective animations involved (both for Kage's b+K and the MK kicks), coupled with my relatively low skill level. The b+PPK works so fast, for instance, that it is difficult to execute a b+K timed to hit at an appropriate animation point. I will keep trying to parry these attacks, but if anyone else with more skill wants to give these attacks a shot, that might help.

A question asked earlier by Yupa concerning Kage's Hopping Punch:

Huzzah! That's news to me. Is this hopping punch a true low attack or special low?

Its hit level is L, not L*.

BTW, with regards to the comment I made:

I believe I have now checked all of Kage's moves for their hit and reversal levels, and damage, and have noted any discrepancies with regards to these specific columns.

Let me clarify that I am referring to the VFDC Version C Command List only. Also, in case it is not obvious, whenever I come across a move that is listed as not being reversible, if after a suitable amount of testing I can't reverse it, I assume the list is correct and make no comment.

 

Re: Careful, bubbah...

ahahahh...just read jason's post. i hardly check much of the board these days, missed it. i just find it amusing because he sounds so much like shroom, and (from a brief scan of some of them) the threads seem just as much about correcting deniz as correcting the movelists. it's 1999 all over again!

that said, i maintain more than a few text guides, and it's nice to have input from curious, sharp eyed people.

 

Re: More corrections

Ah, very good suggestion regarding using Aoi's YY-stance. Thanks.

I've been using record and playback in free training for the most part to check things. If I find I can't reverse something on reflex, what I do when I record an action is tap G 3 times and then do the attack that I want to try to reverse. When I playback the action, the computer controled character will flex into guarding stance 3 times then attack. It makes timing the reversal/sabaki a lot easier.

 

Re: More corrections

You may already know this, but if you're having difficulty with reversal timing and if you suspect it's HP, HK, HE, MK, MP, EL, KN reversable, then Aoi's Yin-Yang stance is very useful. Set the CPU to perform said attack and you simply hold the stance and observe the result.

I did try doing that, but stopped because I suspect it may not be reliable. I was going to mention a concern with it when I eventually start an errata thread for her Command List. Here's the problem I ran into. I was not able to (and I am still not able to) reverse Sarah's Step Hook Kick and Step Heel Kick, or Kage's Hop Kick, by straightforward reversal attempts. You also agreed they coudn't be reversed. Yet Aoi's YY stance acts as an Inashi vs. them. So either they CAN be reversed and I was wrong in thinking otherwise (unlikely), or the YY stance can Inashi some moves that can't be reversed (undocumented around here if true), or I misunderstand what the animation is showing. I'd appreciate it if you and Yupa, and anyone else as well, took a look at these three moves vs Aoi's YY stance, and share what you think. It has me befuddled.

In the meanwhile, back to Kage errata:
1. The notes column shows Shun gets sobered by Kage's b+PK Helix, Heelkick, and by his Jumonji Run Jumping Heel Kick. These notes are incorrect; the moves do not sober him.
2. The list says Kage's Protruding Front Kick causes a Stomach Crumble on hit; I believe it's actually a Head Crumble.

 

Re: More corrections

2. The list says Kage's Protruding Front Kick causes a Stomach Crumble on hit; I believe it's actually a Head Crumble.

JM P+K is stomach KD
JM K+G is head KD.

 

Re: More corrections

JM K+G is head KD.

Yes, you are agreeing with what I said. The JM K+G is the Protruding Front Kick (that's its name on the Command List). /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: More corrections

Ah, ok. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif I never know the names of moves, bleh. /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

Re: More corrections

1. The Izuna Drop is listed as a combo throw followup to the Ten Foot Toss. Normally, damage from moves in a combo combine. Since this is not the case with the Izuna Drop's 60 damage (it is not cumulative with the 40 damage from the Ten Foot Toss), perhaps a note to this effect might be appropriate.

2. The following midlevel Kage kicks are those that should be given an SK reversal level: PPPK; PPb+PK; b+PK; b+K; b+KKK; df+K; [Jumonji Stance] PK; [Jumonji Stance] PKK; [Jumonji Stance] K; [Jumonji Stance] K+G; [Jumonji Stance] P+K.

 

Re: More corrections

One more to add:

Kage's df+P executes in 23f, not 14f.

 

Re: More corrections

Here are some frame rate discrepancies between VFDC and VP Kage movelists:

d+K: VFDC -- Grd: -14, Hit: -6; VP -- Grd: -16, Hit: -14
f+K+G (second hit): VFDC -- Hit: +4, MC: +6; VP is blank for these.
b+P (entering Jumonji Stance from Closed Stance): VFDC -- Hit: -2, MC: +5; VP -- Hit: +2, MC: +9
f+P+G (side|back versions): VFDC -- Hit: +14; VP: +11
f+P+K Reverse Leap Frog Wall Attack: VP has some odd parenthetical -32 frame references for Hit and MC that don't appear in the VFDC stats.