KOF XIII Announced

Last real combo vid til console release by these guys I think... It's still great, especially the Mai and Maxima combos.



PAX videos of console version gameplay. Props to SonicTempest. There's a few more recordings on his YouTube page:

 

So Saiki's NEOMAX is DAAAAAAAHKNESSSSS! Expect to hear it on the mic during online matches.

 

I finally got to play it at a friends house. It wasn't a finish ver but still pretty fun.

Quick question Has Ralf enter a pie eating contest between game?

 

I honestly was thinking Purple Rain, or even better, Chocolate Rain...

 

Frionel drops a huge podcast explaining the changes made to the console version of KOFXIII.

http://www.elive.pro/watch/jBk4l80bKtec


It's long-- like 3 hours and some change, but he goes over EVERYBODY in the game!!!

 

Wanted to second this podcast, totally worth listening to if you have any interest in KOF XIII for console!

I'm still very excited about this game. Though I'm worried netcode will still be an issue--but someone reassure me if Atlus has really gone on record to say that it's a huge priority!

That said, I've played VF all these years so just as in that... if I have trouble finding an online community (not the case with VF5), I'll make a local community and keep on pressing ^_^

 

Yeah Atlus has been definitely making sure that this netcode stigma gets shattered really hard, and that this doesn't become the roadblock to success...

There's not too many games with superb netcode. People though 3S was gonna be great on console online-- and to be honest, the 3S that came in the AE package back on the xbox was better... I'm not here to bash games and their netcode, but GGPO is not the savior that people want it to be. It's just not. I do know that SNK can integrate good netcoding into their games. Samsho Sen and NGBC are two good examples.

SNK also has to keep in mind that they're not making a game for Japan only, in which I believe some of these games work great in, like KOF98UM, and FFS. This is an effort to reach the rest of the world, which run on different network infrastructures. But that's the least of their problems imo.

SNK has been known to fix/add/whatever things that their players/fans mention/suggest. For instance, People weren't really fond of 99-2001's gameplay, especially considering the fact that it got worse with each iteration. So when 2002 came out, they decided to take the best of their systems and truly redefine what KOF really was. Aside from 98, and 2002, XI was the only other generally accepted KOF with a unique style of play (2003 was ok, but seemed experimental a la 97, 99, and XII). I know for starters, fans wanted Mai back, and she's back. Same with "punch style" Kyo, and "classic" Iori. I personally liked "classic" Kyo.

Hopefully, when they decide to add more characters, they won't be bosses or anything lame in that aspect. They're throwing a huge bone for the casuals by bringing alt versions of Kyo and Iori. I really could care less about Raiden's nerf, but if it meant more diversity in team creation, then so be it.

 

This interview (Orochinagi) did reassure me a little bit, since I hadn't really heard much emphasis on the netcode since. It still makes me a little shakey, but mostly because of the point you raised which I sum up as "are they testing the netcode in Japan, or actually something more like US?"

Granted, people who followed XII and had hoped in the big "netcode update" remember them releasing videos of Ignition USA testing the netcode... on what was virtually a LAN setup (it was internet, but I imagine it was minimal hops away on ideal connections).

What ended up happening was moving the game's netcode from one that functioned on the matched speed of the two players' connections (which meant super slow match speeds for most people, but all inputs functioning along that timeline0 into a lagged control netcode which visually masked the lag to those that weren't actually playing...

In any case, I'm really glad that SNK P moved forwardwith XIII (though there's the theory that XII was a stopgap while developing "the real game" XIII). And tons of credit to them, I really like what I saw of XIII when I played it at PAX ^_^ Also loving the match videos online! I'm totally supporting the game (and intending to do so on both platforms, something I only do with VF actually)!

If the netcode is priority #1, then as a fan I'm happy. Good netcode might not be Marketing's absolute best friend (it didn't save VF5's performance on 360 and I don't think it would have actually saved XII's given the KOF fans' reaction to XII's reduced gameplay--which I liked actually). But it increases the game's playability and hardcore resonance, for years in some cases (a decade in extreme cases).

As for the Gold Standard in console online netcode for fighting games... I guess in my limited experience I would say Blazblue for 2d fighters and VF5 for 3d fighters (which isn't perfect but we're mostly getting fair results and it still mostly feels like VF--without being able to react very late to things on weaker connections). I didn't play HD Remix much, but a lot of people seemed happy with the netcode (though many unhappy with Sirlin's changes to the game).

P.S. To Jinxhand, TOTALLY APPRECIATE your commitment and presence in the scenes for both KOF and VF!

 

I just can't get over all that they have added for the port, given the shape we've been told SNK Playmore has been in.

Can't wait. The trial mode is gonna help me learn the new combo system so much better, too.

 

Thanks Chanchai. I personally feel that these two games are very similar, despite some minor differences-- I'm just trying to get cats to see that, and take the plunge in both great games. I also hope that with both installments of XIII and FS that the scenes overall grow and become not just nationally competitive, but internationally competitive. I'm tired of seeing cats reject good games like these... I'll stop there, 'cause I talk too much already

Anyway, SNK has managed to multi-task in terms of handling this netcode and balancing the game further. Sure, the HD cancels are easier to do than the BC cancels of 2002, but its not dumbed down to the point in which Joe Schmoe can pull off combos that should realistically be difficult. There's still a chanllenge in pulling off really indepth combos (watch the EVO side tourney and check out that Ash combo), so ultimately I'm glad that the game can still provide a challenge for those who desire it.

Yeah you're right, BB and VF do meet the standard for many people online. I mentioned Samsho Sen because while it wasn't a highly accepted Samsho, it did display an awesome netcode, which actually motivated some people to try it out. HDR does have good netcode, and honestly, this was one reason people wanted GGPO, which also hurt them when 3SOE came out. It simply did well on this game, but they did testing not just in-house, but with the community.

Speaking of testing, when the Altus PR posted on DreamCancel awhile back, players of all skill levels in the community were basically offering themselves to help with any netcode testing possible (or any testing for that matter). There hasn't been an actual response to that, but we're hoping that something comes through before console release.

I'm not trying to counter anything I've mentioned previously with what I say next. Having good netcode is great and all, but the thing is this: what about the local scene(s)?!?!?! I know it sucks to attempt to bring a copy of VF5 or bring your 360 with KOF98 while watching the other cats huddle around the latest and "greatest", but we can't forget about them. With the hype built for both games, we should take advantage of this, at least come release date(s). I know its gonna be a bit harder for VF, since it's still aways off, but if someone's down for learning it, grab them up, and don't bombard them with a plethora of words they don't know.

Most of us here are still gonna play VF5FS even if the netcode is garbage, that much I know. So even with that said, can the scene thrive and grow??? I think so!!! Look at Melty Bread (Melty Blood), and Mizuumi.net (Akatsuki Blitzkampf, Vanguard Princess, etc). Those scenes are still growing, especially the Melty Blood scene, and they have to get a jsp2 version of their game, and it doesn't have online capabilities!!!

OK, I'm done... I'll just share this with you cats... SouthTown Arcade had some ranbats this past weekend. The rest can be seen on iplaywinner's Youtube page.

 

Definitely with you on all of that. The best way to enjoy these games is in our local scenes--and trust me, I've done lots of VF scene building and rebuilding in the Northwest (mostly in Portland, but I have always really tried to encourage the Seattle area players as well). It takes a lot of passion, commitment, consistency, and a good sense of enjoyment of the game with others.

One of the things that make sense to me (at least as I see it) is the Atlus and SNKP partnership. I'm almost wondering if this will lead into Atlus acquiring the games part of SNKP (I really don't know how SNKP is structured).

I think Atlus has a specialty in expanding a niche market as much as it can, provide a product that keeps its fans more than happy, and manage the production under reasonable expectations to seemingly make it a successful release regardless of the predicted scale of the game (they seem good at managing games expected not to sell at mainstream numbers).

So I'm happy that they picked up KOF XIII, it was very cool news when I heard it. Though at the same time, I wish I heard more XIII in mainstream ways--but the great news is, the game is mentioned all over the fighting game scene where it is likely to meet its best customers.

Side Note: I'm really grateful for Atlus for also picking up Demon's Souls two years ago. They took a gamble because Sony was not bringing that game outside of Japan. But because of Atlus' success, Namco/Bandai worked out the arrangement with FROM Software for Dark Souls, which was a good thing for FROM Software (given the challenges they faced from Sony--I like Sony but they had very little faith in Demon's Souls).

Back to KOF... Man... I'm excited (and practicing 2002 UM when I can, hoping it'll help me get better in a way that will help my XIII game--because I suck at KOF, but I've fallen for this series).

 

Final Day action of the UK's Take All Comers KOF XIII tournament starting at the 21:00 minute mark of this video:

Take All Comers Tournament (EUR) - Final Day video part 2/3

I really enjoyed watching this tournament yesterday and I think a lot of US players haven't watched it yet. Highly recommended and supposedly one of the latest builds of KOF XIII Console!

 

I'll be online tonight for some KOF02UM matches. If anyone's daring enough to play 98UM or Garou, I'm down for that as well.

 

Illustrating more of why I am loving elive.pro...

Here's are some good KOF XIII match analyses by Kane317 and Metaphysics ^_^

KOF XIII Match Analyses #6 (Kane 317 & Metaphysics)

I recommend watching the video! Enjoy!

-Chanchai

P.S. Raiden's on a streak!

 

So am i. I also started playing KOF more seriously not so long ago and really love the series, And not just for the mechanics. I just really like the character design and feel of the game. Music, Stage, Bio of characters etc.... WHen KOF XIII comes here ill be there to play with you Chanchai. ( if you have the game on Ps3) I miss my box for Garou :S

 

I figured this would be an interesting read, since it further shows how similar KOF is to VF... This can be read also on dreamcancel.com... Props to PhoeniX who wrote this... It's mad long, so no tldr-ing on this one... I actually learned some things reading this, and I hope you cats get something too. Hopefully this can bring out some good discussions here... Enjoy!!!

p.s. - I think the 1st photo got chopped a bit... If you wanna see it blown up, just hit up dreamcancel and check it out... Aight, here we go:


Fuzzy guarding tutorial by PhoeniX

<span style="font-size: 11pt">The King of Details #1: Fuzzy Guarding</span>
PhoeniX, 14 September 2011

This series of articles focuses on the fine details of the King of Fighters engine. A comprehensive understanding of a game’s engine can help you to improve as a player.

This first installment in “The King of Details†covers “Fuzzy Guarding.†Fuzzy guarding is a technique that allows you to effectively block high/low mix-ups without the guess-work.

Let’s clear up a few things about the terminology. Fuzzy guarding can refer to two different concepts: Option-Select.com explains the concept for which it is usually used in 2D fighters. It is a technique to land instant overheads with normals that do not usually hit crouching opponents. This is not the fuzzy guard that I will talk about.

We will focus on the technique mostly used with 3D fighters like Virtua Fighter. It is following a certain pattern of high/low blocking that will effectively block a large part of the high/low mix-ups that you have to deal with in a match. This concept is not unique to 3D fighters, and it is also found in 2D fighters. It plays an important role in the King of Fighters because it forces the player to react to high-speed mix-ups more frequently than most other 2D fighters.

<span style="font-size: 11pt">Basic Fuzzy Guarding</span>
Fuzzy guarding is used when a player is on the defensive and does not, or is unable to attempt to anti-air an inbound opponent.

Whenever an opponent hops in, he has several options.
1. Do a hop in attack
2. Empty jump and go for a low attack.
3. Empty jump and go for a throw.

The defending player now must deal with 3 options. By using the fuzzy guarding technique the player is able to defend against the first two of the agressor’s options without thinking. This leaves only the empty jump into throw option which, thanks to KOF’s large throw-tech window between 10 and 16 frames, is not difficult to react to.

To Fuzzy guard, you block high, until the moment a hop attack would hit, regardless of whether the opponent did a hop attack or not, and a fraction of a second later, go into low block. This effectively blocks both options.

The image below shows a frame by frame progression of a fuzzy guard situation. With arrows showing the way the Mature player is blocking.



The image shows two sequences of K’ doing a hop-in.
One time K’ both goes for a hop C and the second time he goes for a empty jump crouch B. In both sequences Mature blocks with the exact same timing, and is able to block both.

If you do fuzzy guarding correctly, it will block all high/low mix-ups of this type.

<span style="font-size: 11pt">Close C Option-Select Fuzzy Guarding</span>
There is another method for guarding ainst this type of mix-up that is more risky. I call this method the close C option-select fuzzy guard. This defensive option-select is very strong. The defending player waits until they would have blocked a hop-in attack. But, instead of going for a low block, you press C (or for some characters D). This will make Close C come out, which is generally the fastest move for a character, and it will beat out any attack that is done by the opponent after the empty jump, and if you time it late, it will even tech an empty jump throw.

Observe the schema below. This time we’re using the close C option-select fuzzy guard. Difference in input and visuals have been marked in grey. Notice that C is pressed quite a bit earlier than it comes out. Normals in KOF have several frames of input delay before coming out. I will likely discuss the delay in a later edition of The King of Details.



<span style="font-size: 11pt">Countering Fuzzy Guard</span>
Both fuzzy guarding options are clearly important to understand and execute effectively. However, they are not flawless. It is uncommon to see high-level players get high by standard hop mix-ups. Overcoming fuzzy guard isn’t easy. You need to break that pattern of your pressure in some way to break fuzzy guarding.

Some characters have hop moves that hit twice, like Mature hop B and Whip hop D. If you were to start blocking low during the blocking of the first hit, you would get hit by the second hit and eat a combo anyway. Therefore you have to fuzzy guard on the ‘second’ hit. Both Mature and Whip can time their hops attacks so that the second attack never comes out, and can go for a low instantly. If you wait for the second hit to come, you will get hit by a low. You can still fuzzy guard somewhat against these mix-ups but the timing and pattern is more complex. It is easier to use your judgment and reactions to react to these types of hop attacks instead.

When someone is using the Close C Option Select effectively, the best way to stop them from doing it, is to make it look like you will hop in, but land outside of the range of their close C. Although close C’s are really quick, they have pretty bad recovery, so whiffing is not an option. Staying outside of the range can also trigger a far C to come out, these have bad recovery too. In theory, this seems like an effective way to counter the close C option select. But in practice, it is difficult. The best close Cs have a huge range, and it is not easy to make the opponent misjudge their range. When you hop in outside of close C range, a skilled opponent will resort to normal Fuzzy Guarding instead.

A tactic against an opponent who effectively uses the close C option-select is to hop and land just outside of their close C range, Close C attacks are quick but have bad recovery. Whiffing a close C attack is not an option. By hopping outside of close C range you can also trigger a far C attack to come out instead. These attack have bad recovery as well. While it seems that this technique can be used to combat the close C option-select effectively, it is actually quite difficult. The best close C attack have huge range and successfully causing your opponent to misjudge their range is a difficult task. Skilled opponents will identify your attempt to bait the close C to come out, and resort to normal fuzzing guarding.

If you are playing with a grappler with an instant or invincible start-up throw. You can empty jump and go straight into the throw. Both an invincible throw and an instant throw will beat close C and low block.

When playing with grapplers that have instant throws or throws with invincible start-ups, you can empty jump into these throws to beat both close C and low block.

In 2k2UM, K’ has a very strong tactic that can be used against players using the fuzzy guard technique. His f+B overhead is very fast. K’ can empty jump and go straight into f+B, breaking the pattern of Fuzzy Guarding. He can also go into overhead directly after a Jump-in attack. A defending player that is fuzzy guarding would be going for a low guard after blocking the hop attack, resulting in them being hit by the overhead. If you read K’ ‘s overhead and block it, it can be punished for high damage.

Finally, a player may choose to us a hop attack that hits later than usual. This leaes the defending player pressing close C before the hop attack hits. Hop CD attacks are generally good choices for this technique. A good example would be Chris’ hop CD. This option is quite risky against characters that have a good upward close C like Iori and Yashiro.

<span style="font-size: 11pt">Conclusion</span>
Fuzzy Guarding is a vital technique to master in any King of Fighters games as you’re effectively able to block or counter mix-ups automatically. It is a defining weakness in new players.

I hope you have found this article useful. This is my first article in this series and I do not intend for it to be my last. Any feedback is much appreciated.

 

Heh, I'll be getting the game for both systems--but PS3 one first (might be a two week delay on 360) ^_^ So we will definitely get our chance to play. Let's just hope *gulp* the netcode will be good... or at least good enough...

Have to admit, the character designs are growing on me

Jinxhand, THANKS SO MUCH FOR POSTING THAT! I somehow missed it on Dream Cancel. Reading it now

 

OHHHHH very nice read Jinxhand thanks a lot. Chanchai i do pray everyday for a good netcode. But for now 3S awaits me so have a nice day guys.

 

Interview with Aram Jabbari on GameInformer:

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/king_o...look-video.aspx

 

More ranbats. The rest are at iplaywinner's youtube page.