Lion Meaties?

@Ares-olimpico - Have you tried to do a quick forward dash input before 3K for this situation? The forward dash animation can become "filler" in this case.

Kruza

 

Its easier for me to just fail evade to perform to 3k as a meaty

 

The opponent can still side throw fuzzy this if they are familiar with the set up; @Myke does this to me all the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8toXoZe-Muw - a link to the explanation. At +12 however it is truly guaranteed.

I hardly ever use the + ender for 2K; the risk/reward for the opponent if they simply block low is quite good. I mean you can try and condition them to evade the second hit, but rather than evade they can just duck and blow you sky high (elbow punish or launch punish for those with 15 frame mid launches).

Ares, most people I've seen use or P to hit the meaty consistently. So from a specific knockdown (usually or ), they will confirm their opponents tech roll, execute one of the two moves, then immediately try . I think this is what you were using in your video too?

As for + being unsafe, well let's do a comparison of your 3 meaty options that are mid level and provide airborne guaranteed damage: , + and +.
All of these attacks are linear, but in a meaty situation this doesn't matter, so no clear winner.
Each of these moves leaves you at disadvantage. In order: -9, -3 and -6. I don't know how these change with meaty timing; I think you can reduce your disadvantage slightly but don't quote me. So that means that + is a clear winner, because you can fuzzy guard, and if you hit it perfectly you might even be +1 or so on block!

In terms of damage if you hit, I feel like + is the winner again. + gives you roughly 60 - 65 damage on Kage. gives around 72. I think +, , +, works on Kage (can't test right now though), which is slightly more than 72. Even if it doesn't work, the other combos do exactly the same damage as the more difficult combo with -> + -> -> ->

+ is also really easy to set up; if your opponent tech rolls after your or , dash once then immediately execute for the meaty.

So if you do the analysis, to me, both and + are better options. They achieve the same thing, do more damage, and are easier to set up.

I'm a pretty poor player, but the above is my experience only.

 

@Toto
First thanks. I'm the beginner here (for years i am slow too)
I use p like Filler in 2KK+G PKP combo (without another ender ) i think in this combo there are more frames total duration of P plus exec of 3k
I no use in-game 46k in meaty because i like to punish low rising kick with 8k and my otg game is poor, sometimes my rival only need sleep in the ground and -9 is too risky for me.
i use p+k in another setup only for video
in other words p+k is faster than 46k+g what setup need this extra 7 frames ? and in this situation is exist can i bask dash for evade the throw and some hits?

 

People play differently but:

2KK+G goes under special highs (because reasons).

Its a counterhit combostarter with huge ringout potential. Fifteen frame recovery counter launchers are pretty rare and some of them are not practically applicable (Akira/Lau 46P for example are messed up with 2_46P).

"Conditioning people to evade the second hit" is a losing endeavour just like most conditioning in the first place. Rather you should aim to read opponent play in such a way that you know they are going to attack into the 2K.

I am fully aware of all the weaknesses of 2KK+G, yet in practice I used to be able to apply it pretty much willy nilly because opponent also has to deal with lots of other Lion bullshit. Mixup is the important factor with moves like this.

Judging risk/reward factor can be difficult since reward can be automatic victory (via ring out)..

 

Thanks for sharing Manjimaru.

Earlier in my experience with Lion, I used a lot. I was often punished for it but perhaps I am not applying correctly.

I am reading your usage of it as a read on a high move when in the range of minor advantage (read of abare) or minor disadvantage (read of a high move/throw as the opponent begins their offense). Is this a correct understanding of your usage?

I use as an interrupt all the time...but if your opponent is hit by a counterhit, is the guaranteed? I didn't think it was, and therefore they need to be pressing a button or evading to get counterhit by it.

Are you implying that the part is guaranteed if the counterhits? If this is true, this changes my understanding of the move completely and I can see what you're saying about its utility.

 

It is. Thats why I called it CH combostarter. Its still risky of course, since second hit can be ducked on normal hit, but it has its uses. And Lion 2K goes under special highs which goes against the "rules" (special highs are attacks that hit high but interrupt low attacks).

 

Heres two meaties. Combo: , , , then or on the opponent's side roll recovery. One is a meaty that is a low option() and the other is a mid (). Another one is the same combo above, but instead after thebound () simply press then immediately imput (full charge). If blocked you can do a immediate catch throw for a mixup. If it hits you can do this combo: , , , and either end with the meaties listed above or , , etc. Oh, before he blows a gasket. You have STL Tm to thank for these two meaties. He did it to me in a match and i been using them ever since!

 

@Toto ¿are you sure +11 dont grants guaranted p ? the jab of Lion is 11f like other 3 character
i am checking the disadvantage obtains with p+k in meaty in some situations are -4
checking too if kg 3k can be used in the same situations that 46k+g
when i have more information i'll post here

 

+11 grants p series entry for lion.

p+k meaty falls between -4/-5, so if its blocked you can 33g to avoid mid/throw mixup, but be aware delay throw can happen in fuzzy recovery. Reward for fuzzy on throw whiff is throw or p,k on opponent throw recovery. The other reward is blocking mid and getting +5. If your facing a low throw opponent bait them to low throw if they think you will fuzzy.
Your reward on low throw whiff is free launch.

K+g should only be used if you know the opponent tech attacks consistently. Ex:44k,p+k,p,43p+k,4k,pkg,delay k+g.

3k is easy. It's just 663k and hit check for proper action taken.

46k+g used as a meaty can be +3 if you use it correctly. If you know your opponent will techroll don't finish your combo instead use a 2p>om>46k+g to get +2/+3 on meaty block. The straight up meaty version is safe as well at -3 letting you natural crouch vs throw/poke.

 

Thanks @Stl_Tim
your information leave me almost without work. But when i write k g i said the shake witch is 11f i'm trying 66kp+k 46p+k 43p+k 6pp k g 3k instead of 46k+g as meaty. i'm trying this because 11(exec of kg)+17(exec of 3k) is very similar to 27 (exec of 46k+g)

 

Yeah if is a ch the follow up is guarenteed.

 

Which combo ender sets up for these meaties?

 

Anything that bounds or ending 2p around mid/lowish height.
Ex: p+k>delay p>43p+k(bound)>2p>om>46k+g.

Testing meaty: set CPU to tech after knockdown. In this case CPU will tech during om. If you succeed in doing the right timing the hit will come out normal hit instead of counterhit. Also, test on block for best results.

Note: If you already know meaty setup for testing please disregard.

Honorable mention too 8k/46k+g/1k. Depending upon weight class you can for light pp4p,pkg mixup.
For heavy middle you can p(g-cancel),4pp,pkg mixup.
Other ways on knockdown for heavier classes you can p(g-cancel)4k,pkg>mixup.

Usually the way it's programmed for the whole class except taka, lion can keep connecting as a threat.

Example: (vs kage weight class)
43p<44k,p+k<2p<(opponent techs)<om 46k+g<(opponent tech attacks)>pp4p,pkg,k,k>(creates meaty.)

If the opponent blocks you can get +2/+3 from om 46k+g.

Enjoy!

 

Checkin BT CH /\ if the opponent thech roll / enter as meaty with the opponent crouch and put him in a small stagger. but versus some charcaters / fail because he is too far, this can be solved delaying the of

 

But what weight classes does this combo work on?

 

The combo is listed, work since eileen to Vanessa, this was a good question. A better quuestion is: work in other combos too? i thing yes but i didnt check for now