Martial arts styles

Geez too serious man. Lighten up.

 

You're damn right Cat.
Just re-read my last post and it sucks.
My bad.
(Must have been all those hippies I had to deal with that day.) /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SCS

 

Right now i do Judo and really enjoying it.

When i was younger i praticed Karate for about 5-6 years until i was 11-12, i would say i learnt a lot from it but F*** those katas man their useless.

And when i was 16-17, for a year i studied Wu Shu Kwan Chinese Boxing, but i really didnt enjoy training there as the year progressed (DAMN Forms)

 

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KoD said:

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agios_katastrof said:
My background is fairly light . . . aiki-jj (Aoi)


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Where did you find an aiki-jujitsu dojo? That's some esoteric shit. Kaze arashi ryu?

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There was this guy in my childhood neighborhood (Spanish Harlem, NYC) who happened to know it. He taught it to a bunch of us kids for free in a simple gym. Really. Great guy. At the time, I didn't think much of it, but there have been several times since then where that knowledge has proved useful. And I can tell you, that Aoi does quite a few authentic looking aiki-jj throws and reversals. Her strikes are another story, though. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif Interestingly enough, it was here where I was first drawn to the knife - largely because I realized just how difficult it is to defend against the knife, even with a defense oriented art like aiki-jj.

I don't think however, that you need to specifically study aiki-jj to learn the Aoi like defense. I think some of the other eastern and western techniques teach the similar.

I'm Korean, btw. Sorry, I do not speak Japanese.

 

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You're damn right Cat.
Just re-read my last post and it sucks.
My bad.
(Must have been all those hippies I had to deal with that day.)

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Hey no problem /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. I respect alot that you can say that.

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When i was younger i praticed Karate for about 5-6 years until i was 11-12, i would say i learnt a lot from it but F*** those katas man their useless.

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When you're beginning training (although "beginning" could last a year or more depending on alot of things) I think the katas are a good way to strengthen your technique. At higher levels when the techniques are engrained into you and you have a feel for how to balance and move efficiently the katas become fairly useless but I still think it has merit.

 

Pardon me mate, but the reason why Kung-Fu martial artists don't show up on tournaments is based on Tao philosophies. No fighting until necessary. Also, there's not much people knowing kung-fu pretty nicely. These are enough reasons for them to stay quit in the dark.

I never fought a guy with a knife. I did a demonstration in school 2 years ago because people asked me. A small group of students and teachers came to see me. I handed a pencil to a friend of mine and told him to point it to my neck and ask for my wallet, and that if necessary to cut my throat (faking). I took my wallet out of the pocket, I lifted my right arm (handling the wallet) up and I pushed it a little farther from his face (always to the right) and when he was going to catch it, (he was poiting the knife on the left side of my neck with my left arm up, as if I was saying "Calm down, calm down!") I grabbed his hand (handling the knife) with my left hand, while moving my neck to the right and simultaneously pushing his wrist to the left with my right hand (grabbing the wallet which I dropped in the same instant). Then I pushed his right arm (the one with the knife) with my left hand, which was now grabbing his right wrist, and with my right arm (the last part of the arm before the hand, I don't know the name in english) I smashed his elbow, by moving my right hand from down upwards as an uppercut, but using the upper part of that "part of the arm", while his arm was strained. If it wasn't a simulation I would probably had broken his arm, because that's the intention when you use this technique. When you break his arm he always drops the knife. I the get the knife (because I'm holding his hand and taking the knife at the same time) and here comes the violent part of Ju-Jitsu...

While I'm holding his right arm with my left hand I grab the knife from my left hand with my right hand, and without stopping for a second I stick the knife on his right side right below the ribs, I then take the knife out and cut from the same place vertically to the right shoulder (from below the right ribs to the left shoulder to be more exact) and then cut his throat.

It's violent, but we also learned from ju-jitsu that if one guy's going to kill you (or at least is threatening) then you may always send him to the hospital, or kill him in self-defense. They also advise to use our left side (right below the small finger) of the right hand to hit below the ribs, instead of using the knife.

Trust me, all of this is true. People who practise Japanese Ju-Jitsu know it.

NOTE: This was just so I can prove to you that a gun cannot defeat a man unless it's an explosive or a massive machine gun. Everyone knows that if a man has a pistol pointed at his head, he just needs to distract the other person with something and the right reflexes can do everything.

Stay cool.

 

Hand-Wrist-(This)-Elbow-The other Part of the arm-Shoulder.

This refers to the part of my right arm I used to fake the breaking the arm part of the technique.

 

Sesshoumaru,

for your own safety and that of others, you need to realize the limitations of MA. MA training does develop confidence, and JJ is certainly a good art. But overestimation of one's ability and of the art does not go well. It'll be the death of you and/or someone close one day.

Firearms - do you know what the muzzle blast alone can do at point blank range? Actually, I think the larger guns are easier to avoid (assuming point blank range, of course).

Knives - your example of the pencil is hardly valid. You enacted a specifically practiced defense against a learned situation. I'm sure you practiced that situation many times in the dojo, along with several other standard situations. So of course you handled it with ease. They are good things to learn and keep in your toolbox, but your setup of the demonstration is far from realistic. It's like in VF, you tell your opponent "Ok, do a high punch, and so I can counter it." Uhm, yeah. A better demonstration would have been if you tell your friend to attack with the pencil, without much specifics. He can then walk away, and a day or two later, jump you from behind as you are walking down the hallway, and shove the pencil in your ear. Now that's combat.

 

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agios_katastrof said:
And I can tell you, that Aoi does quite a few authentic looking aiki-jj throws and reversals. Her strikes are another story, though. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif
. . .

I'm Korean, btw. Sorry, I do not speak Japanese.

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Do the sacrifice throws seem authentic to you? Besides the old and huge knee floats, the multipart sacrifice throw seems the least authentic to me, although i know very little about ajj as opposed to aikido.

Oh, and wasn't trying to assume anything about your language or nationality. Kaze Arashi Ryu (roughly, "wind storm school") is a ajj dojo in the ny area, was just wondering if thats where you picked it up.

 

...Don't be stupid please. I told him nothing. I said to my friend: "Pretend this is a knife, and that you're robbing me". And I told him he could fake cutting me or something. He just couldn't react. I did several knife-counters with friends and they all acted realistically, and I always get away, whether I'm fighting or being robbed.

Martial Arts (not all) are perfect. If you don't like them, I don't really care. But don't say that on this forum. And don't talk about Firearms. The same way I got away from a knife, I learned how to do the same with a gun. And yes, this time I can tell you: I've been robbed by a guy with a pistol. FIRST THING: No one (unless it's drunk or a killer) shoots at your first move. They threat and shoot only if REALLY needed, and then run. You can do a quick move to take their gun out because they won't shoot in the next 2 seconds. They have to press the trigger, and before that, their mind goes through a rush of feelings about jail, pain, and that kinda shit. They might shoot after, but only after a small period of time. I know this because I got the pistol after taking it from him.

Don't bother me with your Military Stuff. You like bullets, that's ok to me. Just don't say that Martial Arts aren't worth it in today's reality. That's freaking bullshit and everyone on this forum, not because they are Virtua Fighters, but because they have a lotta knowledge about that, know that Martial Arts rule over a gun or a knife.

I'm not going to repeat myself, nor am I going to reply to your next few messages. I'm out.

PS: Quote:"A better demonstration would have been if you tell your friend to attack with the pencil, without much specifics. He can then walk away, and a day or two later, jump you from behind as you are walking down the hallway, and shove the pencil in your ear. Now that's combat."
....
WHAT THE FUCK? Where do you live? Near the Murderers Street or the Killers Avenue?? For fuck sake! You must be watching to many "Scream"s. If someone jumps from my back with a knife, I'm as good as dead. But no one can help that unless they have very nice senses. Don't give idiotic examples. PLEASE!...

 

Martial Arts threads are entertaining.

GE

 

Ses,

You specifically told the guy to point the pencil at your throat. That's very specific if you ask me. Look, I learned that defense, too, as did probably many others on this thread. And yes, it is effective against that particular situation. But you really are kidding yourself if you think knife defense is that easy.

Admittedly, my pencil in ear example is a bit extreme, but my point was that knife attacks are usually unexpected, and typically go one way. A knowledgeable knife wielder doesn't wave the blade around. The stupid crap that you see in films where they flip around balisongs and whatnot is pure BS. You don't draw the knife without accepting the consequences. And when you do draw it, you don't hesitate. That's the philosophsy behind knife fighting as I know it. A realistic knife attack is when you are on the ground with the other guy, and suddenly the other guy pulls out a blade while grappling. And against such, a lot of the common unarmed defenses don't work.

Guns - you have a point in that people draw guns with less intent than a knife. But I think that's pretty much where our agreement ends.

 

Yeah, the multi throws don't look all that ajj to me, either. And it's not just the obvious u+k+g, none of Aoi's strikes look authentic. Actually, I'm not even sure if ajj has real strikes. But moves like df+p+g, d+p+k+g, those look pretty authentic to me.

 

True, this really is turning into quite an entertaining thread.

Sesshoumaru:
"Don't bother me with your Military Stuff. You like bullets, that's ok to me. Just don't say that Martial Arts aren't worth it in today's reality. That's freaking bullshit and everyone on this forum, not because they are Virtua Fighters, but because they have a lotta knowledge about that, know that Martial Arts rule over a gun or a knife."

Yes, this historic dominance of unarmed hand-to-hand combat over guns was stunningly demonstrated in e.g. the fall of Japan to Western armies.

Don't get me wrong, I truly find your passion for the MA commendable and I hope you keep it up for many years to come.

But please, MA ruling over guns? Oh dear.

"Nowadays, I mean you don't go around on the street, kicking people or punching people. Because if you do, they will pull a gun out of their jacket and bang! That's it. I mean, I don't care how good in MA you are!" (Bruce Lee, 1972)

Maybe we can at least agree that an EXPERT with a gun or a knife has, at least a significant advantage over an EXPER martial artist without a weapon?

SCS

 

Most traditional ajj schools, to my knowledge, don't teach very many strikes. That's why I personally accept the "untraditional" strikes that Aoi has. It would be difficult to balance a character with so few strikes with the rest (and imo quite boring).

Getting back on with the topic, I trained in Su Bahk Do for almost 4 years. It was a LONG time ago, but I'm looking to get back into martial arts because I love the training.

 

When did I say : "I told him to point the knife to my throat"? Huh? When? Never. I do demonstrations all the time to friends.

Let me make something clear: 70% of the students in my school are black, poor people, in gangs. It's most unfortunate, but it's the reality in my school. There were at least 50 kids sent to the hospital due to fights and stabs on my school since it's foundation. I hardly fight someone. I don't like punching and kicking. I mostly grab, throw, cut (with their knives) and I never shot (with their pistols).

I don't give a fuck about Bruce Lee, because he was the first martial artist actor star worldwide. No kung-fu pro shows what he does. Trust me, whether you know many chinese, koreans, japanese guys who practise kung-fu and that don't hide, or not, I don't care.

Let me explain something to you:
Kung-fu was created with the intent of developing the body and mind, so that it could be applied in everything: from work, to health, to everything that we do daily, and it was later on used as a self-defense art. That's the reason a true kung-fu guy almost never fights, and he's doing Kung-fu in that precise moment by not fighting, whether you believe it or not. It's the fundamentals. What I mean is: Bruce Lee was fast, cool, and yeah, so what? That means shit.

I think I'll take this conversation to the extremes. Do you know those guys in india that don't eat and still live? Those guys that never feel pain? There are even some that are able to stop their heart from beating for a while and turn it on again. It's all real, they do it. Now tell me..what's easier? Rolling on the floor to escape a shot from a gun, or stopping ur heart from beating? Taking a knife out of someone's hands and even cutting urself a little bit, or just stopping eating and drinking for the rest of ur life?

No one will shot you to kill you when you're going on the street, unless it's a killer. And nothing can stop that. No gun can stop that. But in another situation, where you have like 2 guys, pointing 2 guns at ur head, you can escape. First thing: no human being (again, unless it's a killer, or a fucking freak) is going to shoot you in less than 2 seconds. Don't come with excuses, you only see that on the movies. Second thing: kung-fu pros are fast..but when I say fast, is like..REALLY FUCKING FAST. Fast enough to do a freaking technique to take both guns out of his head and not getting shot.

The problem is: You folks think you know reality pretty well. It's like: "Everything's horrible..a gun and you die..blah blah blah"... Say what?? Samurais have beaten the crap out of guns lotsa years ago.

I forgot to mention I once saw someone who was able to touch someone's neck and paralising that person. I saw it live. It was a show, the guy asked for someone to go to the stage, he then touched that person's neck and he paralised completly and started crying scared.


You guys have a lot to learn about reality. Someday, if you beat someone holding a knife or a gun, you'll understand that everything's possible as long as you believe it. Your values blind you.

 

Can I ask how old you are and what experience you have in martial arts? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

People what's the point? We can't make some general statement that guns are greater than MA or vice versa. You could say that MA is "better" or will "win out" over guns because of MA philosophy being better than gun culture or that some random punk on the street with a gun will be too scared to use it. And I think there wouldn't be any way to deny that in a SPECIFIC circumstance MA would "win out" against firearms. But it goes both ways. In the end there is only so much you can argue.

You can't say that one MA is better than another MA. It depends on the situation. You can't say that one philosophy is better than another (especially when that philosphy is practiced incorrectly). You can't say that all Kung Fu practitioners follow "The Way" when there are people selling VHS tapes of Kung Fu techniques. You could argue that that's not the definition of true Kung Fu but the definition will be different depending on who you ask.

I understand that in a situation where a scared thug threatens you on the street you could most likely stop him if you had the capabilities to do it. But it's one situation, and I would argue that it's not a very common one. You gave a situation before where somone skilled in Kung Fu could defeat multiple attackers. I don't think it's impossible, but just to do that you would have to be VERY aware of how to attack, and I think there are VERY few people that could do it. Again it depends on the situation anyway.

One more thing you mentioned which was The Way of the Kung Fu practitioner - being humble and not showing off your skill etc. I think if someone was to truely follow this philosophy when a thug came up to them and asked for his wallet then he would give it to him. Why? No violence. It's an extreme philosophy for most people but that's how I see it.

 

Thx for understanding cat.

What I meant was exactly that. Very few people can do it, but yes, it's not impossible.
I also said they would act in extreme situations. If they are being robbed, they might say: "I don't want to hurt you" or better: "Go home, and leave me alone" which looks even more innocent. And only if the robber puts his hand or hurts him he would just "inashi", LOL. What I mean is, he wouldn't attack him, he would just try to push him away with some technique, but without hurting. Only if the situation got extreme, he would have to put him on the floor. He wouldn't punch and kick the robber's face. He stays calm at all times and acts non-violently.

You know what I mean.

 

Ses, look earlier in the thread, where you first mentioned your demonstration. You were very specific in your instructions.

Samurais beating guns? Study Japanese history to any degree, and you'll see the exact opposite. It's a mirror image to the western knight class disintegrating under the introduction of firearms. Japan actually skipped the crossbow stage for the most part, because of the introduction of firearms by the west. That is, they went straight from bow->gun. The Samurai actually adopted the gun, as a smart warrior would.

Whatever. Look, MA is a good thing. VF is a great game. Enjoy MA. Enjoy VF. We can agree on that.