Matrix Revolutions [SPOILERS!!!]

I fell asleep during this movie. : /

I not a fan of over analyzing the meaning of one's life or existence and all the build quite frankly put me to sleep. Not to say I certainly don't understand the story, but when it's talked about to death all one can say is "yeah yeah"

Action sequences are well done imo as they hit you in the face in a fresh way. (everyone's seen battles in the matrix, but not outside of it)

7 out of 10

 

Gnostic philosophy is the underlieing premise of the triology as well as themes of love, trust, belief and choice (there are more lots more). Hence Neo is "christ" in this story , he IS the saviour of mankind, sacrificing himself for humanity.

New oracle: The two programs who are mother and father to the small girl sold the termination code of the oracles shell to the merovingian (maybe the reason you the father being lead away from the merovingian in reloaded.). Since the oracle is simply a program like smith and persephone (and the trainman and merovingian etc...) she simply finds herself another shell.

Neos abilities to destroy things in the real world are explained in revolutions watch it again.

The thing that fucks me off soooo much about people is they keep saying matrix 2 and 3 ...or they should have left it at reloaded etc. It is ONE story. The story is written as a trilogy and thats what was first pitched to warner bros all those years ago. Did you know they originally wanted to end the first one with the 250,000 centinels attacking zion but just couldn't due to budgeting? Thats why last transmission of osiris was done...as Joel Silver said "matrix 1.5".

Story boards and ideas were written and done WAY before any actors had taken jobs. I heard one fucked up rumour that people in the matrix wear shades cos Keanus reeves acting is so bad they disguise it with glasses and let everyone where them so he doesn't look different. Total bollocks. All the desgins and ideas you see have not been sloppily put together or made up on the spot but planned way ahead of everything else.

To me at times its just like watching an anime with live actors and thats the idea (also encompassing the work of john woo, comic books, kung fu, religion etc). The neo smith fight in reloaded (complete with lengthy talky build up and face off) the whole bullet time thing (btw bullet time is NOT being able to dodge bullets it is the state of consiosness of realising you are within a computer generated world...something mis interpreted ALL the time.) .

I think to have a full appreciation of what is evident in the trilogy is to have played the game (both chars) and seen the animatrix shorts. The game shows Ballard meeting Seraph, Ghost and Niobe meeting the Key maker and the two cronies(vampires) of the merovingian (one persephone kills), persephone and also the "new" oracle. Also smith shows up and chases the pair of them. The whole idea of why the logos has crashed landing (fleeing from a centinel bomb) and other thinbgs are addressed.

At the end of the day I was left slightly uncomfortable with the end of the story. I knew neo had to die since he was the one (gnostic philosophy). btw why do people have such a problem with "neo=christ" type characterisation??? If you are not christian then the story of christ is just that...a story and if you are then you will surely belive christ will come again and save mankind from its sins.

I think the ending is left open ended seen as though the Wachowskis don't like discussing their work and prefer it to be enterpreted by its viewing public. How many anime films have ended like this? I'd say lots. Different people take different things from films it all just depends on your view point of what is being said in them.

 

charon, river styx, limbo, the angel war, heaven and hell, enlightenment, freedom from samsara, complete passage from one archetype to another at the end...I don't know what else you guys needed or expected; it was all in the first movie, you either got involved or you didn't but you can hardly blame the movie for what you bring to the table.

Great movie, great end. A little too overt in some points I thought while watching it but after checking out responses (on various boards) and seeing the questions I guess the wachowski brothers did what they had to do...and even then they obviously had to do more. Like write subtext notes in crayon and include a "previously in the Matrix" opening.

oh well.

GE
<font color="green"> "Did IQs drop sharply while I was gone?" -- Ripley from Aliens</font>

 

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Like, I had low expectations going in, but it was even worse than I thought it could have been. It was definitely the least favorite of the Matrix movies for me because it had the most things that pissed me off and the least amount of things I enjoyed.

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Yep, that about sums it up for my friends and I. We went in on the 2nd night with low expectations already (after reading the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes), but it was even worse than expected. The audience was snickering throughout the movie -- the dialog was hideous. They should have changed the tagline to "Everything that starts with a bang tends to end with a whimper".

 

the upside is that at least you didn't have to wait 20 years to be dissapointed.

I'm not a complete fan-boy, I recognize the bad dialogue, the absence of closing certain story threads (smith closes on Seraph and Satti...both appear in the final minutes of film with no explanation), etc. But most of the major "flaws" that people see in this film have always been there. They just became more noticeable the more expansive the story got; you've always had to forgive the flaws to make the movies work.

What I've always enjoyed was the sub-text and discussions. Much more than the movie itself.

GE

 

Okay, here are just SOME of the things that have pissed me off about the first post. Nothing personal, coz I just wrote each respone as it came, and it details my frustrations of some observations that I have deemed a result of dire misunderstandings:

Trinity's death scene too long? Hello? This is TRINITY we're talking about! TRINTY! The second most important character in the trilogy is dying and saying her last words to the man she loves, and all you can say is "shut the fuck up and die"? Are you human?

Erm...if you weren't excited by Mifune's speech, and those huge, powerloader-like mechabots ready to kick arse, you really must be dead inside.

Shouldn't remember details? Do you know how deep these movies are? If you don't remember the details from the first two movies, how can you be expected to keep up with the third? They're not independent films...they were all written together about ten years ago as one massive story!! If you really were a Matrix fan, you should know ALL the details, and if you're not a Matrix fan, then this movie is FAR TOO COMPLEX to enjoy without having an obsession for the material...much like playing Virtua Fighter! Er...what exactly is so confusing about not keeping an EMP near your own electrical defence systems? Dude, I'm sorry to have to say this, but now you're just starting to sound dumb.

No, no, no you...<ahem>. Okay, calm. Listen, my scincerely confused colleague...Neo didn't "possess" Smith after his assimilation. Neo DIED. So why did this destroy Smith? Because now the the anomaly in the equation (Neo) has been erradicated, there is no more need for the balance (Smith) to exist. Smith no longer has any "purpose" in the wake of Neo's death. The Matrix is a puzzle...much like a mathematical problem. If you can't hack it (excuse the pun), please just leave these boards alone and stop polluting them with uneducated half-truths about a story that's obviously beyond your comprehension.

"Whats going to happen to the Earth? Will they work together to get rid of the clouds that the humans threw up there to stop the machines from getting solar power in the Animatrix? Will humans chose the Matrix over the real earth because the real earth sucks now and the Matrix is more beautiful and pleasurable anyway?" - These questions are yet to be answered, my friend. Finally, you're asking REAL questions and are starting to THINK about it instead of just running your mouth off. What the whole "peace" thing was about was, quite simply, that those people (like Neo, Trinity and Morpheus) who go out of their way to find the truth will be allowed out without any resistance (like what Neo and The Kid experienced) from the Agents, and the machines will leave Zion alone...for now.

And as for the sunrise...dude, please don't be so petty! Don't get so worked up over it! It is more than just a sunrise...it tells you what Sati's purpose is. To control the weather...a result of her father begging the Merovingian not to delete his daughter (perhaps you caught a glimpse of him in Reloaded). In fact, it's the GIRL who's the real symbol of new life, not the sunrise on its own. So that should put that one out of your misery.

Finally, there is no "third matrix"...it's the SAME BLOODY STORY, so stop comparing between movies!!!

Okay, that's that. Oh, and I personally found that The Last Samurai had a spine-tingling effect on me...more so than The Lord of The Rings for some reason.

If I had more time, I'd go into my voews of the movie, independent of other responses, but I don't. Instead, I'd refer you to my friend LM_Akira. We share similar views on the trilogy (and on life in general...we were most probably brothers or something in a past life).

Anyone else who has a bone to pick, you can use my skeleton. There's plenty to go around...

Peace out.

 

You sound like a fanboy loser. If you don't agree with his views then say so, but do it without trying to undermine his intelligence with sniping remarks after every paragraph, that just makes you sound petty. He obviously isn't stupid so trying to portray him as that just isn't working. Grow up eh?

 

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Hence Neo is "christ" in this story , he IS the saviour of mankind, sacrificing himself for humanity.

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hmmm, perhaps we have a different idea of jesus, let's see...

when jesus healed the lepers (sp), that is the equivalent of Neo..uh..shooting the shit outta' everyone and performing karate jiu-jitsu on everything he can??

when jesus didn't have sex with anything, it is symbolic of Neo banging trinity on a cheap couch or making out with persephone or uh...

was jesus a bind kungfu ninja like Neo..or was it jesus who was born an ordinary sociopathic computer hacker ( of course in his own time) turned pill popping revolutionary figure...??

if you want to play the 'Christian Matrix' game go ahead, but Neo (in terms of christian brewha) is more symbolic of a 'born-again' christian, hence his name 'Neo' meaning 'new'...not jesus
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Neos abilities to destroy things in the real world are explained in revolutions watch it again.

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ok, you wanna gimme $8.50 and three hours of my time so I can..why don't you just explain it rather than post an 'in your face' style respone
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The thing that fucks me off soooo much about people is they keep saying matrix 2 and 3 ...or they should have left it at reloaded etc. It is ONE story. The story is written as a trilogy

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I think to have a full appreciation of what is evident in the trilogy is to have played the game (both chars) and seen the animatrix shorts.

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it's not one story..you totally missed the point of the third films editing and transitional presentation...check this:

there are probably at least 20 different side stories in Matrix 3 alone..how is that one, a single, story...makes no sense to me...like the conflicts between Niobe and Morpheus were not really part of the overall story seeing as their character interaction was irrelevant to the saving of Zion...who cares whether they make up..Zion is the story...same with trinity dying and Sahtee, and the kid with the ammo, etc...all just filling and more plot to extend the movie and give the audience something to feed on...the first matrix didn't have all this lovey dovey garbage, or at least not to the ridiculous extent that M3 had in it...

the point is, matrix (revolutions) had more than enough side stories that detract from the main one, and there fore imo I would consider them separate stories.
on to max314's post:
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Trinity's death scene too long? Hello? This is TRINITY we're talking about! TRINTY! The second most important character in the trilogy is dying and saying her last words to the man she loves, and all you can say is "shut the fuck up and die"? Are you human?

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Morpheus is more important...wtf are you talking about, trinity important, please...if you've seen the first matrix you'll see the bond between morpheus and neo is actually more important than Neo and trin's love blah blah...Morpheus is the one who assembles his crew of Neo etc., he is the one who belives (the most) in the one and all that, and he is a huge faction leader in Zion...trinity was way to overhyped, and not single you out, but imo you are one of the one's who bought into it....trinity died and zion won..if morpheus had died..gg no re kkthx
Do you know how deep these movies are? If you don't remember the details from the first two movies, how can you be expected to keep up with the third?
lol how deep are they?
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If you really were a Matrix fan, you should know ALL the details, and if you're not a Matrix fan, then this movie is FAR TOO COMPLEX to enjoy without having an obsession for the material

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ok that's bullshit...can you explain to me how Christianity relates to this movie...specifically all the names mentioned in the movie, lemme get you started....trinity, neo, morpheus, zion, nebchanezzer, matrix, there are more!! oh and seeing that you are the hottest matrix fan on the block, I'll expect those answers fairly soon..uh huh..
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Will humans chose the Matrix over the real earth because the real earth sucks now and the Matrix is more beautiful and pleasurable anyway?"

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lol...you obviously fail to see the reasoning behind every person at zion...it's the principal of the damn thing..no one wants to be enslaved by machines...and also, people from Zion never found the matrix as beatiful (expect for Ralph Siffaretto) as earth...now..I know you know more about the movie than all of us at VFDC, but of course you remember what trinity said when Neo told her to fly above the clouds (most people don't so I'll tell ya'...Csnape you should see the movie again however ;-) she said " beatiful " now do you still think she (or anyone else from zion) preferrs the matrix...lol!
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<font color="green"> GE </font> said
What I've always enjoyed was the sub-text and discussions. Much more than the movie itself.

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ditto
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.mov's gone..it was a joke, I wasn't dissing Namflow or however else you took it Jerky..I guess I'll take it out anyways :-(
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Neo is NAV...see I told you

 

I do have to agree with this, and it's an issue that comes up whenever anything is being discussed anywhere and about anything.

I don't care if someone is saying "yummy I sure do like to eat shit!"

It's their view, their opinion. Namflow didn't come out here and call fans of the movie "Matrix fanbois" he stated an opinion for open discussion. Sure he expected people to disagree - you're entitled - but there's no need to add pot shots to your analysis "MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY~!"

it's petty

Edit: Emp, Rich posted and shared that with us as a joke. Let's not ressurect that .mov and be an ass about it.

 

Well, about the Matrix trilogy being one whole story... In the first movie, correct me if I'm wrong, but a big deal is made out of getting Zion's Access Codes out of Morpheus so the robots can have an easier time killing Zion or find out where its secret location...

In the 2nd movie, the robots know where Zion is, they are drilling towards it, and have already destroyed it many times according to the Architect - now, why did they need those access codes in the first place if they knew where Zion was and became "incredibly efficient" at killing it as the Architect said they had...

Also, if Smith duplicated himself over all of the people in the Matrix, then wouldn't he also be in their real life bodies as well? I guess if their brains or memory were put into some kind of backup place while Smith took over their bodies, and were restored when Smith died, then that explains it all...

-Alex

 

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max314 said:
No, no, no you...<ahem>. Okay, calm. Listen, my scincerely confused colleague...Neo didn't "possess" Smith after his assimilation. Neo DIED. So why did this destroy Smith? Because now the the anomaly in the equation (Neo) has been erradicated, there is no more need for the balance (Smith) to exist. Smith no longer has any "purpose" in the wake of Neo's death. The Matrix is a puzzle...much like a mathematical problem. If you can't hack it (excuse the pun), please just leave these boards alone and stop polluting them with uneducated half-truths about a story that's obviously beyond your comprehension.


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That's quite condescending you know. There are many ways of interpreting the story.

My own take on that section was this. In Reloaded Smith says [paraphrased] "I knew I should have returned to the source but I didn't...". At the end of Revolutions, he assimilates Neo. Neo is wired directly in - most likely directly to the Deus Ex Machina or similar direct connection. At this point a pulse is seen going into Neo's [Smiths] body - the machines have basically f***ed Smith in the ass.

Just my €0.02.

Just enjoy the films /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nakura

 

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GodEater said:
What I've always enjoyed was the sub-text and discussions. Much more than the movie itself.


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The exact reason why revolutions wasn't very good...there wasn't enough of it.

 

haha max.. the fact that you got pissed off at someone else's opinion of the movie is the funniest part about your post! hahhahhhhahhah The fact that you state nothing personal and then go on and insult the guy. hahahaha.. hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

http://www.maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=matrix3

 

Maddox is the greatest. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

The philosophical nonsense has been present in the two previous films, so I wasn't that irritated to hear it again.

Overall I thought the action was great, but I found myself not caring as much about the characters involved. Trinity's death scene just doesn't have the same effect as it did before.

The war against the sentinels was good, but in the back of my mind, I was hoping they'd grow arms and legs so I could see more hand-to-hand combat. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I thought the final battle between Neo and Smith was good, but a bit of a letdown at the end.

IMO it wasn't a horrible movie, just the weakest of the series (or weakest portion of the story).

 

I actually liked Revolutions, though probably not in the same way as the first two. It's a solid movie and a great ending to the trilogy. One thing that took me by surprise, however, was how action-oriented this movie was. Reloaded posed so many questions, and somehow Revolutions was able to address most of them without being too intellectual.

Quick points and questions:

- I totally missed the beginning of the movie--by the time I came in, Neo was just waking up in the train station. Did I miss anything major?? I suspect I did...argh.

- Didn't Zion have an EMP defense which the human Smith guy (whose head Neo chopped off later) set off early in Reloaded? That would help explain why they didn't have an EMP defense as a back up in the city...though personally I don't see why they couldn't have 500 EMPs as a last line of defense.

- Disappointed with the Neo-Smith fight scene, but loved the attack on Zion. Mech robots versus spider-like enemies! Done with a high budget! How can one resist??

- Why do people gripe about the love thing now? I already thought it was grating in the first one--there's just no chemistry between Neo and Trinity. As for the acting--some of it was always sub-par, so that's not new.

- Am I the man or what? I KNEW all those Matrix-in-a-Matrix theories that were circulating around after Reloaded was a bunch of B.S.

 

That Maddox guy is hilarious, check out his review of Ikaruga: http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=ikaruga

 

Check out the whole site, there's like 4 years of archived articles. Some of them are hilarious, the Signs review is pretty good and check out the Christopher Reeve one for a funny picture.

 

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max314 said:
Trinity's death scene too long? Hello? This is TRINITY we're talking about! TRINTY! The second most important character in the trilogy is dying and saying her last words to the man she loves, and all you can say is "shut the fuck up and die"? Are you human?

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I thought the two most important characters were Neo and Smith, the anomaly and the solution to the Matrix. What did Trinity do in the triology? I think it would be hard to argue that she is more important than both Smith and Neo, because they did a good job of building up Neo as "the one" and a good job of building up Smith as the badass evil guy. They didn't build Trinity up to be much of anything besides Neo's bitch.

Plus, her death scene was just so bad. The dialogue was grade A cheese. "You can't die" says Neo. "Yes I can" says Trinity. UGH. And that whole speech about not getting to say what she wanted to say the first time she died was nothing short of god-awful. If the movies had done a good job of building her character and her love for Neo I would have cared when she died. But they didn't so that's why I didn't care if she died. The cheezy dialogue just made things worse.

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max314 said:
Erm...if you weren't excited by Mifune's speech, and those huge, powerloader-like mechabots ready to kick arse, you really must be dead inside.


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That speech was so dull and cliche of course it didn't excite me. My Scottish friend thought it was so stupid he said "I half expected them to start chanting 'U-S-A! U-S-A!'" As they all raised their guns and were like "YEAAAA!!!!!!!" all I could do was roll my eyes.

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max314 said:
what exactly is so confusing about not keeping an EMP near your own electrical defence systems? Dude, I'm sorry to have to say this, but now you're just starting to sound dumb.


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I understand that you don't want to blow an EMP cause it wipes out all mechanical equipment, theirs and yours. But I was confused as to why they didn't have EMPs to blow in the corridors the machines would take to Zion. They didn't explain how they make an EMP, how long it takes, how many resouces it takes, or how many EMPs they have available. I was confused by this. If they had taken time to explain "We only have X many EMPs available because they take Y many months to make" then I wouldn't have been so confused. But the fact that they have EMPs, which 0wn the machines for free, but didn't line the corridors with EMPs far away enough from their base to 0wn the machines without damaging their self defense equipment wasn't explained. They didn't do a good job of building up the psychology behind the use of EMPs in the ways I previously mentioned so I was confused.

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max314 said:Listen, my scincerely confused colleague...Neo didn't "possess" Smith after his assimilation. Neo DIED. So why did this destroy Smith? Because now the the anomaly in the equation (Neo) has been erradicated, there is no more need for the balance (Smith) to exist. Smith no longer has any "purpose" in the wake of Neo's death. The Matrix is a puzzle...much like a mathematical problem. If you can't hack it (excuse the pun), please just leave these boards alone and stop polluting them with uneducated half-truths about a story that's obviously beyond your comprehension.

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Perhaps my use of the word "possess" was poor. Merriam-Webster Online defines to possess as "to enter into and control firmly", which I believe Smith did to a number of occupants in the Matrix. Maybe assimilate would have been a better choice of words, but word choice aside, I was disappointed with the fight because Neo let Smith possess him, assimilate him, whatever. There was no clear winner. And, by the way the story was framed, there was no way Smith could win. Either Neo would beat Smith, or Smith would beat and take control of Neo, or they'd give us what actually transpired. Either way, I was unhappy with that. I wanted to see someone win. Or they could have had such an epic battle that they killed eachother. But as the fight ended they were both able to fight on, but didn't. We didn't have a clear winner. The second and third movies both did a good job of building up Neo VS Smith as the ultimate fight, but as far as I'm concerned there was no real payoff, no clean closure to the fight. And that's why I'm disappointed.

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max314 said:
And as for the sunrise...dude, please don't be so petty! Don't get so worked up over it! It is more than just a sunrise...it tells you what Sati's purpose is. To control the weather...a result of her father begging the Merovingian not to delete his daughter (perhaps you caught a glimpse of him in Reloaded). In fact, it's the GIRL who's the real symbol of new life, not the sunrise on its own. So that should put that one out of your misery.


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This I guess I misunderstood, I thought that Sati didn't have a purpose, and that's why she was being smuggled into the Matrix. If she had a purpose she could continue to live with her parents in the program world. But her parents didn't ask the Frenchman to give her a purpose, they asked to smuggle her into the Matrix. It doesn't make sense to for her parents for to HAVE to smuggle her into the Matrix in order for her to have a use because other programs (such as her parents) have uses in the program world. Plus I would think there were already programs in charge of the weather, considering how long the Matrix was been around. So I don't think it makes sense that she is now in charge of the weather.

I'm glad you enjoyed the movie more than me, I wanted to enjoy it, but I just couldn't. I thought that the third movie would bring everything together in a way I was sastified with, and I thought that since this was designed to be a triology from the beginning, that they knew what they were doing. But I was dissastified. If you enjoyed it, more power to you.

 

Hmmmm you still don't get it. Matrix IS ONE STORY. Sure it involves many characters and interactions but it is one story.....

What is LOTRs??? Its a story to destroy a ring. Thats all. Obviously it has a huge numbers of ideas and characters running through it but it is ultimately a story played out in 3 parts/chapters whatever you wanna call them. Don't even tell me I missed the point to revolutions. Its point was "death". (1st was birth hence the name neo meaning new in greek 2nd was life eg Smiths talk on purpose and 3rd was death eg the overly dark and violent edge to the film especially prevelant in the music).

Before making any more pointless posts watch all the films again, all the animatrix shorts, play the game, read a book on christianity and buddhism and gnostic philosophy and the illiad and homers odyessy and simulcrae and simulation, watch a load of John Woo movies, Ghost in the shell, Akira and Ninja scroll and then you finally might realise what the wachowskis were trying to interpret with their Matrix world. Also read the novels of Philip K Dick since he was one of the the first writers to think of alternate "imaginary" worlds.

http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/

Check the part on philosophy.