Moves you'd exorcise from VF

Sometimes, once every 100 years, planets align and reveal a champion of the internet.
This day has come !

 

Whhhaaatttt.
Her punishment game sucks when she blocks a launcher so at least she should get a guaranteed launcher when she parries a launcher type move. It's almost already the case except punch type attacks what launch like Akira's Yoho or 46P.

43P is easily backdashable and has really poor range ( like a low punch !) and the stagger is not that hard to struggle out, it's just that once you realized you got staggered it's too late

 

Then give her a better launcher punishment.

The problem is not the range, you can already backdash it indeed. The problem is that the total frames of the move are quite low so it recovers fast even on whiff and it may duck highs in the recovery so using fast attacks (highs) is not a solution iirc (may be i'm wrong on this one).
Then you gotta use slower moves (mids) and it's becoming hard to check if you really backdashed it or if something else happened without going autopilot. By the time you react she can guard again.
More or less the same as a hard to recover stagger, basicaly it's like low punch giving a stagger it's ridiculous lol.

 

Isn't there also great risk in Tenchi in'You? I think a move like this suits Aoi nicely.

 

I said i was done but im just mention 2 more things (if not mentioned already and im not going to talk about the K+GK because its pointless even though i explained it in a way that made sense) Jacky's 4P2P is not the only unblockable on side guard. kage's 4P+K2P is too. So you might as well complain about that also.

2) Im not whining just explaining that jacky's not a ALMIGHTY S tier character that pwns all like many of you somehow seem to think.

 

We're saying that he's better than the vast majority of the cast, if not the best character. This doesn't imply that he doesn't take skill to use or that using him will enable you to practically win automatically, so I don't know what your problem is. The Japanese players place him in the S tier. Their opinions are much more informed than yours and mine, and are therefore more valid.

 

Like i said w/e lol they place at S tier most likely cuz of his dmg. take jacky's dmg away n they would place him at B tier.

 

Zekiel: Please learn how to play your character

 

Lion's 6P+K.
23-frame mid. Sure it tracks in one direction and is -3 on block and sideturns on hit but, 23 frames! WHY!!!

that's slower than most other character's sweeps! and if i wanted a side turning option on oki, i'd rather go for 6P+K+G KK or HCF P, or even K+G.

Another move would be 33 P+K. This move is just there to troll me when im trying to do FC 26 P+K. It doesnt exist for any other reason than to screw me over.

 

Cause it's side turning MID that's safe on block (-4 btw)

 

I find it ironic how much more people complain about a 23 frame high unblockable from the front instead of the 13 frame high unblockable from the front that grants a combo, just because the former belongs to Jacky.

 

Manji, if we are referring to Akira's , I think it has to do with the fact that Jacky's is (i) circular instead of linear (ii) grants +6 on NH instead of -3 (iii) has a followup (iv) has the option to go to slide, for some reason, (apparently) making it deadly on sideturn. In other words Jacky's seems to already have good attributes and some of our fellow players find it difficult to understand why it should also have property (v) the followup is unblockable in closed stance.

Personally i just shrug it off - it's Jacky afterall. Otherwise I'd go insane trying to figure out the developers' rationale behind his moveset:

Why is unblockable in closed stance? Jacky!

Why is unblockable from the side? Jacky!

Why does combo from the side? Jacky!

Why does his jump > have a followup? Jacky!

Why does his jump > sweep yield a combo? Jacky!

Why does his somersault do 50 damage? Jacky!

Why is his combo damage so high? Jacky!

Why do his throws do 60 damage then? Jacky!

Why does have pushback? Jacky!

Why is his safe with a Slide Shuffle option? Jacky!

Why would Slide Shuffle - Jacky!

AFAIC he's the Captain Jack Sparrow of VF5FS. At least the name fits and finally something makes sense

 

6P+K+G is super powerful no kidding, and it sould probably be towned down in terms of speed/damage.
But at least it's consistent in what it does: it only breaks guard.
You can low P and beat it, you can duck it instantly (unlike throws), you can evade it, backdash it, If you abare big akira won't take damage and you will be at +10. Normal hit is not something to be considered with this move as it almost never happens. And it's a move with basically no range.

Jacky's K+GK is not super "overpowered" it's just that it doesn't make sense to block a move and be guard breaked after blocking :/ With this unblockable property it allows him to cover a lot of options on opponent wakeup : abare (with something else than a low), evade, stand guard.
It leaves you with the crouching option that is a risky bet with jacky's top class mid game on wake up.

A more personal note: I don't take speed as a super critera for how good a move is. The way I see it is there are two types of situations:
-Normal
-After TR

The speed of a move is an important factor for the first situation, and Jacky has plenty of good moves to use in a normal situation highs or mids.

For the second situation however speed doesn't really play a role cause 80 % of the time, after a combo that knocks down you got plenty of time to do whatever move you want anyway.
Sometimes the low speed of the move is even a bonus that helps you get the perfect timing for meaties. If all move were fasts your char would have no meaties and would be weaker in a way lol. This + the fact that slow moves often have a lot of active frames.

It's like jacky's 4K+G, saying it's slow while in reality it often helps him to setup meaties cause of the 5 active frames is a bit hypocrit in way. As long has you have other good fast moves, a godlike slow move is still godlike ^^.

 

da fuq did I just read for 4 pages...

I wrote a longish post about my balancing thoughts but ended up just taking it down. Here's a couple of universal things I'd like to see done though.

- Moves with dash input. Make them always come out in the speed they are supposed to. One solution would be to just make the dashframe always come out but make every move with 66, 33, 44 (or 11 if they ever make one) come out 1f faster.
+ Punishes with dashmoves actually working consistently
+ Goh and Kage bounds working consistently
+ Frametraps with dashmoves working right consistently

The way I see it it's just a (rather huge for me) bother that could just be done away with to make stuff work more consistently.

- Moves that don't KND or launch Taka. It's kind of fun and unique mechanic but the way it's done is totally ass. Moves that KND others should always be + vs Taka. Moves that launch others should at least be have enough + frames to get guaranteed follow-ups to compensate for no juggle. Maybe achieved by a couple of unique-to-Taka stuns for these moves.

- For everyone who has a basic elbow it should be +2 on NH. Currently they tend to be -1 or 0. Then there's Blaze with -3 and Akira with his stupid +4 (while having a faster elbow than everyone.). I'd also make everyones CH and crouch hit elbow force nitaku (unless there some reason not to, I don't see one for Jeff for example).

I'd also like MTE back very much and quite frankly I wouldn't mind if the open stages were replaced with ankle high walls. As funny as RO's mid throwanimation or by just running are, they are kind of stupid

 

Let drop this Jacy conversation (but some posts were hilarious).
I played 2 defferent Brad yesterday. My g... I felt so powerless with pai against this beast... I should really play this guy.

 

Assuming that it remains the way that it is, I think that Aoi's move from Ryuka should removed. This move is very bad and useless in my eyes, not to mention very punishable if evaded or ducked. On hit/counter, I can't say that it is impressive at all. As a guard break, it is just embarrassing.

The amount of flak that this girl receives from Tenchi is outstanding. Remove this tool and she will be disgustingly bad character, which isn't saying much when you evaluate the way that she is now...and how she has changed over the years. Maybe that's what everyone wants lol?

 

Even without Tenchi, with my limited experience playing against Aoi, i think her opponents would still have to worry about:

High, mid, low and ground reversals
Standing, low and ground throws
Sundome cancels on... 21 moves if i am reading the command list correctly
3 sabakis
13 MDP
techjumping mid launcher
techcrouching mid
17f high fullcircular
wall stagger
combo conversion string

Hardly a "disgustingly bad character" IMHO.

EDIT: hmm, it appears i have just compiled an Aoi top ten moves list

 

For me it just doesn't make sense to have the guard break after Tenchi .
It would have been more logical to have access to that move after the forward movement Tenchi instead. But overall all the movement from Tenchi are too slow anyway ( they meant to serve evasiveness purpose I would say ) , Aoi doesn't really need an attack out of them.